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mortzz

difference between IMS Bearings..

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HI all ok im looking to have my IMS done so Revolution use LN Engineering bearings and Eporsch use Spyder Bearings.. so whats the difference ?  there is a difference in price Eporsch is around another £300 more..

Thanks

                Andy

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I reckon about 300 quid more, give or take😂

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The labour rate is quite reasonable at Eporsch. The Spyder bearing is probably just a rebranded other one. Have you got a picture or description? Revolution have been doing the IMS for a good few years now as a menu price job. 

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Its looking like I will take it to Revolution as for the same price as Eporsch they will put a clutch in for the same money...  my 986 runs as smooth as a babys bum but I'm getting it done for piece of mind and the IMS is 20 year old .. when you actually look into the failure rate it is incredibly low , I was on a American web site and a main dealership said they get a phone call around every 18 months to say a IMS has failed and he said if its pre 2000 the chances are low,  mine has done 71000 and runs like a new engine..  at the end of the day tho the bearing is just the same as a wheel bearing and as everyone knows wheel bearings can get noisy at 30000 and like my last car they were still good at 200000..  

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So the questions is which LN bearing. The classic dual row retrofit or the solution? How long will you keep the car? How much other preventative maintenance do you plan to do to the engine? The choice is yours.

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Are you just doing it as a preventive measure? From my reading of the situation at 70k milesif your IMS was going to go it would have done so already.

If you need a new clutch it might be worth it while you are in there. If not if it was me I would save my money ( or spent do it on  a faster one.)

 

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10 hours ago, 18greens said:

Are you just doing it as a preventive measure? From my reading of the situation at 70k milesif your IMS was going to go it would have done so already.

If you need a new clutch it might be worth it while you are in there. If not if it was me I would save my money ( or spent do it on  a faster one.)

 

As a preventive measure but let's not forget that the OEM bearings are more or less just like wheel bearings,  so at 70000 they will be getting to the end of there life and 20 years old

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12 hours ago, mortzz said:

As a preventive measure but let's not forget that the OEM bearings are more or less just like wheel bearings,  so at 70000 they will be getting to the end of there life and 20 years old

Loads have got to 150k +. There's one view that says leave well alone. There's another that says fiddling with bedded in components may cause issues. There's another view that says it's £2k for a bearing and £2.5k for a rebuilt/ recovered engine....

When I got mine from a dealer I quizzed them about IMS as much as an annoying new buyer should (and they were used to it). They felt it was an industry created by fear to the extent they eventually gave in and made their own bearing because so many people asked for it. Yet in the previous 2 years they had only seen one failed IMS bearing. I don't think I've read about one in the 3 years I've been on this site. One tip I took to heart was to drive it hard when warm . Apparently it slops the oil around more so if the bearing is dry it gets lubricated.

If it makes you feel comfy do it but there's lots else that can fail and you can't replace everything

Having said all that my history was  buying an 02 2.7 manual ( good one , full history, one owner, dealer warranty) after reading/ watching every single IMS or boxster vlog. It was an absolute scream of a car . The steering was connected to the wheel, the pedals did what they were designed to, utter genius. I drove it twice a month for 2 years, 8,000 miles , started every time, nothing went wrong with it and I sold it back to the same dealer. Cost me £2000 total over 2 years, so £80 per month and I forgot about the  IMS  as soon as I paid for it. I expected it to break down like an 18 year old car probably should. I may have been very lucky, and I probably was, but they are good , well built , undervalued cars.

if it was me I'd use the £2k to buy a 987 gen 2 manual 3.4 and transfer my worry to  bore scoring instead. 

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I figure there are several reasons the IMS bearings fail...

1. There was something wrong from the start. Some manufacturing imperfection or even installation variability.

2. There was some combination of driving style, driving frequency, length of trips, oil change frequency, oil change product, climate, storage etc that the seals didn't like.

3. Just plain old fashioned wear.

At 70k you are by the point where #1 shows up most often. You are no where near where #3 should be causing problems. So it is down to #2 and there are so many variables there you can't be sure.  Though 70k miles for a 20 year old car doesn't speak to it getting regular exercise.

I have followed the IMS issue for at least 9 years almost daily over 8 to 10 forums. I haven't seen any recent LN dual row bearing failure reports. And some of those are getting long in the tooth. So considering there are at least 10k of them out in the wild ... seems like a reasonable selection if you are going to do it.

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8 hours ago, mikefocke said:

I have followed the IMS issue for at least 9 years almost daily over 8 to 10 forums. I haven't seen any recent LN dual row bearing failure reports. And some of those are getting long in the tooth. So considering there are at least 10k of them out in the wild ... seems like a reasonable selection if you are going to do it.

Out of interest what is the actually failure rate? Ive heard all sorts and there are many stories of the IMS being the Boxsters downfall but Ive never actually heard of one failing.

Rog.

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10 minutes ago, Roger C said:

Out of interest what is the actually failure rate? Ive heard all sorts and there are many stories of the IMS being the Boxsters downfall but Ive never actually heard of one failing.

Rog.

The only figures we have come from the US lawsuit which puts the failure rate for 2000-2005 cars at 8%, but there is a risk of failure on any Boxster between launch and 2009 when it was engineered out of the new design. They used a better double row IMS upto 2000, but then replaced it with a single row which caused the high failure rate. They then increased the bearing size after 2005 which seems to have reduced the failure rate substantially.

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19 minutes ago, Nobbie said:

The only figures we have come from the US lawsuit which puts the failure rate for 2000-2005 cars at 8%, but there is a risk of failure on any Boxster between launch and 2009 when it was engineered out of the new design. They used a better double row IMS upto 2000, but then replaced it with a single row which caused the high failure rate. They then increased the bearing size after 2005 which seems to have reduced the failure rate substantially.

Was that up to and including 2000?

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I don't think I've seen an IMS failure reported on this site in the 3 years I've been watching. There have been engine failures and some quite catastrophic but I don't recall any classic IMS failures. Or am I rubbish at searching?

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4 hours ago, 18greens said:

I don't think I've seen an IMS failure reported on this site in the 3 years I've been watching. There have been engine failures and some quite catastrophic but I don't recall any classic IMS failures. Or am I rubbish at searching?

I think you're right, the last four failures I remember all seemed to be bottom end failures , @Jason986S, @Spuggy and @Tin Pot which seemed to sieze after oil pressure lost and @Geoffjackson whose car developed a big rattle while still running which is not the normal IMS failure mode which tends to be quite terminal. Last one I remember happening was @mrbikerdood about three years ago.

7 hours ago, el 3.2S said:

Was that up to and including 2000?

Don't know when the switchover was.

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23 minutes ago, Nobbie said:

I think you're right, the last four failures I remember all seemed to be bottom end failures , @Jason986S, @Spuggy and @Tin Pot which seemed to sieze after oil pressure lost and @Geoffjackson whose car developed a big rattle while still running which is not the normal IMS failure mode which tends to be quite terminal. Last one I remember happening was @mrbikerdood about three years ago.

Don't know when the switchover was.

When my engine failed, the rattle sounded exactly like all the IMS horror stories on youtube.  When on the ramps and with a stethoscope, I thought the rattle sounded tappety like a potential lifter issue on cylinder 3.  However, because the cams turn at half the speed of the crankshaft, those in the know told me it was IMS failure.  When finally at a Porsche specialist, the intial diagnosis was a failed big end.  Only fully stripping the engine revealed the true problem.  My IMS bearing is actually perfect!

 

Spug

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Take it out and sell it, try to recoup some cost :D 

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At this point ive decided to put the IMS on hold...  I thought this guy was spot on with his explanation 

 

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Good stuff.

Perhaps an even better solution is just to not know about it at all. The chap who owned my 2000 986S before me, had the car for 11 years and had never heard of an IMS :laughingsmiley: lol. Car now on 87000 miles and I do not lose sleep over it.

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