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987 v Audi S4 (2018) from a rolling start (an OAP 'comparison')


John K

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And all of this couldn't have been safer than safe and stopped well before anything got remotely silly or illegal...

Would we expect a 987S to be able to match or beat an S4 from a rolling start?

Yesterday I came along side another old git in an 2018 S4 on a bit of dual carriage way and after a roundabout we both gave it the moo from about 20.

I reckon I was holding station even gaining before I braked and pulled in behind and we exchanged waves.

I know the S4 has an extra 40 odd brake but it is about 300kg heavier. 

Off the line the Quattro should give it the edge, but from 20 to 70, what do we reckon?

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11 minutes ago, toplad said:

I have an S4 2018 plate and it feels much faster, the way it goes to 120 is a different league to my 3.4S Boxster

So you are perfectly placed to comment..!

Questions...

I'm assuming the S4 has a bunch of settings to tune the engine, gearbox. I have no reason to suspect he hadn't also mashed it, but perhaps it was set to "Radio 2" and not "Kiss FM"

Also the human body is very easy to 'fool' and I believe that is how flight simulators work. They move the initial meter and then the physical movement stops but the visual movement keeps going and the brain says "well I must still be moving"

Because the S4 has monstrous low down surge but the 987 needs to build, could it be the S4 feels a lot faster than the 987, which is actually hanging on.

Again none of this matters, frankly I don't care if the VW Up Gti is faster than my Box, I still love my car and it is fast enough for me.

I'm just interested...

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John,

You're right it has a bunch of settings, but once rolling I'm not sure it has much effect, if you're in ECO mode the gear changes are slurred with part throttle, but with full throttle changes are fast even in the slowest mode

I'm very familiar with flight sims being a pilot myself, the body can be fooled, you are right. I don't think it's happening in this case

I would be very surprised if my Boxster could keep up the S4 in any situation tbh, it's not just the BHP figure, the Torque figure makes a big difference to the performance, not just the 'feel'.

I'd love to do a side by side drag between the cars, but the S4 is dull in comparison,  it's not really a drivers car, more something that is fast, but makes a great daily  as a package,  I really  like it, but I have no desire to map it, mod it or even clean it that often. Which is the opposite with the Porsche 

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The body can readily detect acceleration but not speed. That's one of the reasons a turbo can sometimes feel faster. 

When you're on an aeroplane and it accelerates for take-off, your body knows it. As soon as it starts cruising though, you can't tell the speed you're going. 

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4 minutes ago, toplad said:

I'm very familiar with flight sims being a pilot myself, the body can be fooled, you are right. I don't think it's happening in this case

Bloody Hell, I'm glad I was close. I missed you are a stick jockey and you could so easily cried BS on my statement...

And as you are used to the effect, you are not going to be fooled in a car.

Well, if you are every in the South Warwickshire / North Worcs (still can't spell it) area in the S4, we can arrange something :)

When I had my mate out in the Box on Sunday I actually said "the Box was designed to dance round corners, something like a Golf R or Audi S is designed to bludgeon the corner into submission" which is exactly what you want for a DD

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We have the S5 Sportback as well, and I'd say off the line and in gear (at reasonable revs) it is much quicker than the 987.2S PDK we also have.

At the top end the Porsche would probably have it, but only just. 

The handling however is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Both are Porsche developed engines of course.......

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1 hour ago, John K said:

Bloody Hell, I'm glad I was close. I missed you are a stick jockey and you could so easily cried BS on my statement...

And as you are used to the effect, you are not going to be fooled in a car.

Well, if you are every in the South Warwickshire / North Worcs (still can't spell it) area in the S4, we can arrange something :)

When I had my mate out in the Box on Sunday I actually said "the Box was designed to dance round corners, something like a Golf R or Audi S is designed to bludgeon the corner into submission" which is exactly what you want for a DD

Very true about dancing round the corners, love that feeling. 

If I'm every round your neck of woods I would enjoying comparing the two :)

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Similar to above I ran a C55 AMG alongside my Boxster with 5 speed torque converter auto (remapped though) which had 400bhp and 400lbsft. It was on rear 255 section Michelin Pilot Sport 3 compared to Boxster 265 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2. Once rolling and traction was no longer an issue and as long as the road is pretty straight the Boxster would have no chance keeping up. 

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Haven't we had all this before?  :-)

535d is quicker to 60 than my 3.2 Tip 987.1 even before a friend of a friend had it remapped to 380bhp....

 

But chuckable, no, nice place to be when tired, yes... horses for courses :-)

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I have to agree the Boxster is a lot more fun - I run an BMW X4 35d alongside and the speed in a straight line in the X4, especially up the hills still takes me by surprise and no comparison to the Boxster - but stick a few corners in and they are soon on par... always choose the Boxster over the X4 for all but motorway trips and the gloomy commuting days.

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We still hang onto the numbers on paper - although most of us have voted with our wallets to buy what makes us happy.

I know there is a span of 40 years and testosterone and pimples does weird things to us - but i raced more people, bike, cars and horses on my 50cc moped than I ever have done in any of my previous dailies or toys (xjs, 911sc, gpz900r, cb750, boxster). I iike the day when you can lineup against a random, in something interesting and have a smile before you both get anywhere near limits is great.

Without opening a minefield - its like football vs rugby - back then it mattered to much if I beat the AP50 off the line, (foootball)  now, I don't care about "Callum" driving a vectra with "Irmscher" wheels and I will happily nod to another "old git" when I just plain "won" or "lost" (rugby)

Mate of a similar vintage as me has a BMW 135i M - Sport thing - with paddles and low springs and its great fun to swap and play - but I bought what I wanted and so did he.

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11 hours ago, Paul P said:

Without opening a minefield - its like football vs rugby

Climbs into a foxhole and pulls his tin hat over his ears...

11 hours ago, Paul P said:

I iike the day when you can lineup against a random, in something interesting and have a smile before you both get anywhere near limits is great.

Bob on :thumbsup_anim:

11 hours ago, Paul P said:

although most of us have voted with our wallets to buy what makes us happy

Bob on *2 :thumbsup_anim:

And that is the nub of it - do you love what you drive? If the answer is 'Yes'... No further questions m'lud

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These sort of threads always make me chuckle

No doubt the Boxster is more fun, but the original question was about a rolling start drag race 

When the Boxster doesn't measure up against a certain car, people on forums always feel the need to bring it round to handling or say they don't care about straight line speed. 

I bought my Boxster because I think the 987.1 represents the best value in the range, but there's no point in trying to justify it against something which costs close to 50k and is 2 months old 

 

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Funny thing but real stats might answer this one:

1/4 mile:
987S - 13.4s    S4 - 13.0s 

0-100kph:
987S - 5.4s    S4 - 4.6s

100-200kph:
987S - 13.5s    S4 - 13.0s

So not a million miles away but the S4 should have all the str line stuff covered.  In the real world where you might gain half a second of anticipation - say when overtaking a slow car and you are one behind the other - you are close enough to be line ball in many roll on situations.  I see this all the time on road trips where we have lots of Porsche together and they are all much the same 'speediness' up a twisty hill or on overtakes with the biggest variants being how hard the drivers are prepared to push, being in the right gear and anticipation.

$0.02

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1 hour ago, 911-32 said:

Funny thing but real stats might answer this one:

1/4 mile:
987S - 13.4s    S4 - 13.0s 

0-100kph:
987S - 5.4s    S4 - 4.6s

100-200kph:
987S - 13.5s    S4 - 13.0s

So not a million miles away but the S4 should have all the str line stuff covered.  In the real world where you might gain half a second of anticipation - say when overtaking a slow car and you are one behind the other - you are close enough to be line ball in many roll on situations.  I see this all the time on road trips where we have lots of Porsche together and they are all much the same 'speediness' up a twisty hill or on overtakes with the biggest variants being how hard the drivers are prepared to push, being in the right gear and anticipation.

$0.02

Nicely found and seems to backup what I found on the road. It didn't feel like there was a big gap between us.

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I had a similar rolling race today in the Boxster against a Bmw 330e on the dual carriageway 

Boxster was catching very slightly until I lifted at a speed I dare not write. He undertook a car, so that was my cue to bail out and leave him too it. I caught him up in the general flow of traffic and watched him drive like an idiot at various stages on my way home 

Boxster did better than I thought, although the BMW is list as 249 bhp and 310 lbs so seems about right 

 

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  • 6 months later...

It's a long dull night shift and I find myself 8 pages deep and coming across this gem of a post.    

I had a 981s pdk and swapped it out for a TT MK3 quattro 2.0 S tronic. 

Despite being slower on paper the TT was definitely quicker off the line and more nimble around town, it wasn't a challenge to get the power down like it could be in the 981s. I'd be extremely curious to know which would be quicker from 40 to 70. 

Never any doubt as to which was more fun.

The TT bored me in ways a sports car shouldn't. Plus, the raved about virtual cockpit is pants if you're tech savvy. 

The TT is now gone and my next Porsche is imminent. 

Can't wait to get into a 987.1 

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Good to know you are going back to the fold. Interested in this as well as my best mate has an S4. He had driven my 987.1 a lot and loved it so much he spent some time looking at buying one (or slightly newer) instead of the Audi. Having been in both I would say the the Audi is definitely quicker in a straight line and pretty awesome around corners. On the Boxster you need warm tyres before it will corner quicker as the Audi has more computers and 4 wheels to send the grip to. Once the tyres are warm though......

On another note his 1991 (I think) TVR Griffith may still have both off the line of you can get it right manually as no driver aids whatsoever.

Maybe we can put both head to head sometime and find out for you.... As for the 40-70 The Audi would know what gear to use while I would have to guess 2nd.

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Holy thread revival Batman! (But better than starting a new one for the same topic) good call.

Interestingly, I had a litttle tickle with an s3 yesterday (shape before newest) and only did a sensible 1st 2nd pull and it was fairly equal. Although a KissFM spec hatch-back, the driver (chap in his 40’s) gave a smile and thumbs up when we went our separate ways at the round about. Staying within speed limits and enjoying your car on the roads safely is great. I have no aspiration to own an Audi hatchback. The wife has an a4 Sline with loads of gadgets and christ it’s boring. I would have a manual r8 v8 though, but then we’re talking sports/entry-supercar teritory not Mum mobiles.

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Not sure about the 987 vs S4 but similar situation with a friend and his 996 C4S and on the roll I was JUST about able to keep  on his tail but I was FOOT buried to the floor and flat shifting....he was on about 90-95% throttle...He was impressed as was I!

By the way this test was carried out on a private airfield and not on the public highways....because that would have been bad and naughty!

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