Paul P Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 Anyone of you guys who has actually done the Tfl dance happen to be a member of either PCGB or TIPEC? If so suggest pinging the "management" a mail suggesting the club do a note to members ? Or perhaps in TIPEC's case a magazine article ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Paul P said: Anyone of you guys who has actually done the Tfl dance happen to be a member of either PCGB or TIPEC? If so suggest pinging the "management" a mail suggesting the club do a note to members ? Or perhaps in TIPEC's case a magazine article ? You'd probably hit more users by posting across FB groups and bumping the post every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, edc said: You'd probably hit more users by posting across FB groups and bumping the post every week. I'm not a member. I can't begin to imagine how many owners have a case here... would it not be prudent to put a patition out to the Mayors office directly. It's possible that they are as unaware as joe blog to this debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 Sadly the only ones with an interest to update it change are the owners themselves. Tfl just pull from DVLA. I expect the change would have to come from the manufacturer to the DVLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, edc said: Sadly the only ones with an interest to update it change are the owners themselves. Tfl just pull from DVLA. I expect the change would have to come from the manufacturer to the DVLA. You have to wonder why some V5Cs display the NOx data and others don't, maybe it was issued as a prerequisit at some point in time but regardless the least they could do is add said disclaimer to their checker, it would'nt cost a penny and it would give consumers an opportuntiy to just check for themselves before selling if deemed neccessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 i posted in the couple of fb groups i am on and on the pcgb forum page pointing back to this thread. Lets see if we help anyone else via those routes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg123 Posted October 13, 2021 Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 Unfortunately for us, TFL has always been a money raising vehicle for the Mayor. In our case, the Mayor has brought in the ULEZ as well as extending the Congestion Zone charge to basically 24/7 as a money making exercise to spend on vanity & vote winning projects. Very little of this has anything to do with the environment or congestion. People who drive into the ULEZ/Congestion Zones are doing it through necessity - the traffic is so hideous the train/tube is nearly always a faster option. TFL have zero interest in reducing the money they can make by informing anyone of the fact their database is a load of rubbish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 Well said @dpg123 Note worthy because when I sent my initial email and checked in on them to ensure they recived it they said they did'nt receive so I was prompted to register my dispute via Make an Enquiry page (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ulez-make-an-enquiry-wizard) There's also a page on their website that's buried away where you can contest their claims. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/compliance-registration/before-you-start?intcmp=51789 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/13/2021 at 3:41 PM, dpg123 said: Unfortunately for us, TFL has always been a money raising vehicle for the Mayor. In our case, the Mayor has brought in the ULEZ as well as extending the Congestion Zone charge to basically 24/7 as a money making exercise to spend on vanity & vote winning projects. Very little of this has anything to do with the environment or congestion. People who drive into the ULEZ/Congestion Zones are doing it through necessity - the traffic is so hideous the train/tube is nearly always a faster option. TFL have zero interest in reducing the money they can make by informing anyone of the fact their database is a load of rubbish. Vanity? Due to the pandemic and vastly reduced income, TFL is in financial problems. Vanity projects were near exclusive to the last mayor, Bojo, who is now PM. The garden bridge. Estuary airport. Those vast and expensive Boris buses. And so on. Not saying I think the ULEZ either a good idea or well implemented. Since there are a vast number of modern diesels which passed a lab test so are compliant on paper, but exceed the emissions in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg123 Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, DaveEFI said: Vanity? Due to the pandemic and vastly reduced income, TFL is in financial problems. Vanity projects were near exclusive to the last mayor, Bojo, who is now PM. The garden bridge. Estuary airport. Those vast and expensive Boris buses. And so on. Not saying I think the ULEZ either a good idea or well implemented. Since there are a vast number of modern diesels which passed a lab test so are compliant on paper, but exceed the emissions in practice. I'm not disagreeing with you (except the bridge nor the airport actually got built). But if you're going to tax people to use a car and claim that the aim is to either reduce congestion or pollution, then put the money into schemes or incentives to actually reduce congestion or pollution. Taxing people out of a car but not offering any improved alternative is simply not good enough. The vanity part of this I mentioned is more about directing the tax raised cash into vote winning schemes (free U18 travel and free OAP travel, regardless of means to pay for example) which are crippling TFL but are intended to keep the incumbent Mayor in office (whoever that may be). Also, like all large public sector organizations (23,000 employees for TFL!!) there is scope for huge savings through efficiency and cutting waste. Free travel on TFL for each and every employee and their family - why? Look at the number of sick days (337,650 in 2019-2020...that's nearly 15 days for each and every employee)! How much does a tube driver earn (average is £65k for a 36 hour week with 43 days annual leave (plus the sick days) plus benefits and final salary pension. Is it any wonder TFL is in trouble? I guess my point is that I resent being charged with the justification of "congestion relief" or "air quality" when we can all see it for what it is - it's a tax to prop up TFL. If the environment was really that serious then why expand Heathrow? Why not take all the ancient polluting Black Cabs off the road? Why make every junction a "no left turn" and block all the roads with dangerous and unnecessary bike lanes (I cycle to work and they are awful). The congestion where I live (Wandsworth) is worse now than it has ever been due to these road changes. Finally, the ULEZ expansion was accelerated. Say I needed to renew my car and wanted to buy electric. What's the delivery time for that? If I ordered one today I'd not be able to get it for 9 months or so. The whole thing is so badly thought through. What we need is a proper review of TFL and ALL transport throughout London and come up with an affordable integrated plan. If that means road pricing or whatever then fine - but call it that and don't try to BS us and call it something else. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 In most of the UK we've had free or concessions on PT for OAPs for long before Khan was mayor. And free travel for LT employees and their immediate family. The average base pay for a tube driver is £55,000. And, of course, it involves 7 day shift working which can start before 5am. And not a job many would fancy - sitting on your own in a dark tunnel for most of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradders59 Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 Meanwhile, little tin Khan gets driven around London in an armoured Range Rover. As less environmentally friendly vehicle would be very difficult to find. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg123 Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, DaveEFI said: In most of the UK we've had free or concessions on PT for OAPs for long before Khan was mayor. And free travel for LT employees and their immediate family. The average base pay for a tube driver is £55,000. And, of course, it involves 7 day shift working which can start before 5am. And not a job many would fancy - sitting on your own in a dark tunnel for most of the day. Just because you had something before doesn’t mean it’s suitable or appropriate now. For example I used to work for a company that offered Final Salary Pensions but to continue offering them would have ended the the company. So they made changes. New employees understood, old ones remained on the old scheme. It’s normal in the Private Sector. Why not make free travel means tested? Because it would lose votes. Does Richard Branson need a free tube pass? The point I was trying to make was really about being hit up for cash by the London Mayor (Sadiq or Boris, whoever) under the banner of the environment when it’s actually to support TFL when they haven’t done their duty to the tax payer by getting maximum value out of TFL by modernising, efficiency savings, common sense changes. People are struggling. TFL should be fit for purpose AND we can put the money from the Congestion Charge and ULEZ to use making real changes to green initiatives. I would happily pay extra if I believed where the money was actually going but it does sit uncomfortably with me when there are so many obvious changes that can be made to provide a much more efficient system for those who pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photogirl Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 Interesting thread (not had a chance to read it all yet, but I will). I put my 1998 2.5 986 into the checker and it said 'non-compliant'. I then did my 2012 2.9 987.2 and that came back as 'compliant'. Having checked the emissions reports from both cars at last MOT, my 986 came out cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, Photogirl said: Interesting thread (not had a chance to read it all yet, but I will). I put my 1998 2.5 986 into the checker and it said 'non-compliant'. I then did my 2012 2.9 987.2 and that came back as 'compliant'. Having checked the emissions reports from both cars at last MOT, my 986 came out cleaner. Sounds like you need to do the “ dance “ to get tfl records updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 ...if you intend to take it into London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photogirl Posted October 24, 2021 Report Share Posted October 24, 2021 33 minutes ago, Menoporsche said: ...if you intend to take it into London. I'm hoping I won't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 9:30 AM, Boxob said: Excellent news for you. It should also be excellent news for all those with Boxsters of the same year and engine size. It shouldn't be necessary for every owner to go through the same hoops (and anxiety about selling their car). TfL need to update their data base for all models matching those for which they have already accepted a conforming certificate. This is not over yet! As of the last few week or so I've been having to pay the daily ULEZ charge while TfL take upwards of 5 days to respond – the first five days was spent waiting for a response that would never materialise due to the them not recieving my V5C in response to an email they sent asking me to send it (which I did) but for some unknown reason it didnt get through to them. I eventually discovered that the safest way to enquire is to use their Make-An-Enquiry page (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ulez-make-an-enquiry-wizard). They have sent me a letter today stating that I need to aquire a letter from Porsche but I can't quite understand what is being asked of me. Can someone advise? (see attached) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxob Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) This is a surprise. Surely it is sufficient for the emissions to be linked to the model e.g a 1998 Porche Boxster 2.5 rather than to a specific vehicle. Others who have obtained the Certicate have not had to go to this length. Is each individual car tested when the emission figure are added to the V5? Having obtained your Certificate could the info be officially added to the V5? Edited November 1, 2021 by Boxob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Boxob said: This is a surprise. Surely it is sufficient for the emissions to be linked to the model e.g a 1998 Porche Boxster 2.5 rather than to a specific vehicle. Others who have obtained the Certicate have not had to go to this length. Is each individual car tested when the emission figure are added to the V5? Having obtained your Certificate could the info be officially added to the V5? I am perplexed and as clueless. I've forwarded the TfL letter onto Porsche UK who will hopefully be able to through some light on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Emissions figures alter by wheel size and other options fitted at the factory. So in that respect the emissions are vehicle specific. Reading TFL’s note seems to suggest that whatever paperwork you sent them is missing the VIN to link the stated NOx to your actual car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, map said: Emissions figures alter by wheel size and other options fitted at the factory. So in that respect the emissions are vehicle specific. Reading TFL’s note seems to suggest that whatever paperwork you sent them is missing the VIN to link the stated NOx to your actual car. I sent them the CoC and the V5C. Is it because the VIN/Chasis number needs to be present on the CoC? Well it is...on page 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 35 minutes ago, SilverBud said: I sent them the CoC and the V5C. Is it because the VIN/Chasis number needs to be present on the CoC? Well it is...on page 1. Just spoken with TfL and Porsche. Porsche advise to contact the DVLA to update the V5C?? TfL have said that they may have not checked the Chasis/VIN numbers correctly. Total washout! Another 5 days of waiting to come Grrr! If my assumption is correct this most recent letter is claiming that TfL can't corrolate between the two documents (V5C and CoC) due to VIN number not being present on BOTH documents. Well that's not true because the VIN is refernced on the cover letter that accompanied the CoC (both of which were provided to TfL), and the VIN is present on the V5C (also provided). TfL have confirmed recipt of all the above documents 😮 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg123 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, SilverBud said: Just spoken with TfL and Porsche. Porsche advise to contact the DVLA to update the V5C?? TfL have said that they may have not checked the Chasis/VIN numbers correctly. Total washout! Another 5 days of waiting to come Grrr! If my assumption is correct this most recent letter is claiming that TfL can't corrolate between the two documents (V5C and CoC) due to VIN number not being present on BOTH documents. Well that's not true because the VIN is refernced on the cover letter that accompanied the CoC (both of which were provided to TfL), and the VIN is present on the V5C (also provided). TfL have confirmed recipt of all the above documents 😮 You're doing all the right things - you just need to persevere! TFL have no incentive to update your record in a hurry (it pays for them to keep you on the black list) and you can bet the person behind the TFL computer literally couldn't care less! All in all I think it took me around a month to complete the process from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBud Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, dpg123 said: You're doing all the right things - you just need to persevere! TFL have no incentive to update your record in a hurry (it pays for them to keep you on the black list) and you can bet the person behind the TFL computer literally couldn't care less! All in all I think it took me around a month to complete the process from start to finish. Thanks dpg123. Total shambles but what can you do but carry on! Will keep updates coming as and when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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