½cwt Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Checking the car over this morning taking off the front PU to clean out rads and prepping for working on the bake systems and repainting calipers when it all came to a grinding halt. Front right spring broken and on a close look the bump stops need replacing too. I have found a pair of original Porsche springs at a price I'm happy with but whilst I'm doing all this I guess I should also think about top mount bearings and if so do you need the whole mount and bearing or just change the bearing? Also anything else I should look at whilst I'm in there doing some serious work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 You should be able to dismantle/re grease the bearings, though I don't think new ones are that expensive. Top mounts are around 40 quid iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I've got a bit deeper into this and the top mount with bearing (MEYLE) are about £125 for a pair and the bearings only are abot £75 for a pair. Is there anything in the top mount other than the bearing that would make it necessary to change it and spend the extra £50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 The top mounts might be ok What happens is the metal insert becomes detached from the rubber.. could possibly repair with a suitable adhesive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAZ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, ½cwt said: Checking the car over this morning taking off the front PU to clean out rads and prepping for working on the bake systems and repainting calipers when it all came to a grinding halt. Front right spring broken and on a close look the bump stops need replacing too. I have found a pair of original Porsche springs at a price I'm happy with but whilst I'm doing all this I guess I should also think about top mount bearings and if so do you need the whole mount and bearing or just change the bearing? Also anything else I should look at whilst I'm in there doing some serious work? I'm provisionally booked in with Lee at CPS as soon as he is open proper to have my front springs replaced as one is now an advisory - at least I will have saved enough in petrol money over the next few months to pay for the repairs - every cloud ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, ½cwt said: Checking the car over this morning taking off the front PU to clean out rads and prepping for working on the bake systems and repainting calipers when it all came to a grinding halt. Front right spring broken and on a close look the bump stops need replacing too. I have found a pair of original Porsche springs at a price I'm happy with but whilst I'm doing all this I guess I should also think about top mount bearings and if so do you need the whole mount and bearing or just change the bearing? Also anything else I should look at whilst I'm in there doing some serious work? Drop links, ARB bush,s, go for new top mounts, you are in there, so may as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Sachs top mounts are oe and usually a bit cheaper btw..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazbot Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 False economy to not change mount and bearing at the same time unless you know one or the other is recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Shazbot said: False economy to not change mount and bearing at the same time unless you know one or the other is recent. I've never heard of a worn bearing, though I guess it could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazbot Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Looking at the profile info we're looking at 20 year old mounts and bearings potentially. The bearings are there to allow the strut to rotate so take a lot of forces, it's not until you split the strut you can assess how worn they are. If the spring has broken you can bet the bearing is at least tired. I've had to replace these on Vw/Audis before now and the Boxster ones are identical in design. I've been farting around fixing cars and bikes for near on 40 years , personally I would change them while it's in bits especially if fitting new mounts. Could always purchase them and send them back if not needed to get a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, bally4563 said: Drop links, ARB bush,s, go for new top mounts, you are in there, so may as well Yeah, started on the drop links and track rods to be able to get the upright off the car. One drop link came lose and out of the upright OK others is solid in the upright... Also found a perished rubber on one track rod. Also horns nor working, thought it was a bit pathetic a few months ago. Rad support frames are rusty as hell and I think nearside rad is in need of replacement. The good new as all 4 bleed nipples on the front calipers came lose without shearing off. The bill is climbing....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Shazbot said: Looking at the profile info we're looking at 20 year old mounts and bearings potentially. The bearings are there to allow the strut to rotate so take a lot of forces, it's not until you split the strut you can assess how worn they are. If the spring has broken you can bet the bearing is at least tired. I've had to replace these on Vw/Audis before now and the Boxster ones are identical in design. I've been farting around fixing cars and bikes for near on 40 years , personally I would change them while it's in bits especially if fitting new mounts. Could always purchase them and send them back if not needed to get a refund. I bow to your greater experience, but I get the feeling that people just bin em without stripping and checking for any wear first. Mine would hardly turn when I removed them from the car, due to 22 years of crud in there, but an hour spent stripping/cleaning and regressing was well worth the effort. Only the metal support ring was rusty, so gave it a coat of hammerite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beicmynydd Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I did thecsame cleaned degreased and re lubed the bearings and they where perfect at almost 20 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazbot Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I'm not stating anything as de-facto the way to do it just that if you don't do it when you can Karma generally bites you in the butt 😄 OE parts are always good to maintain as they tend to be better quality in the first place. Stripping and re-greasing is good as long as the bearing is still in good fettle. My grandchild transporter is an 06 Galaxy and when I stripped the strut as a result of an MOT advisory I found the top mount rubber was in 2nd class order and because the bearing had been put under loads at an odd angle it had caused the pig tail on the suspension spring to deform so always worth checking and replacing if unsure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 hours ago, PaulQ said: I bow to your greater experience, but I get the feeling that people just bin em without stripping and checking for any wear first. Mine would hardly turn when I removed them from the car, due to 22 years of crud in there, but an hour spent stripping/cleaning and regressing was well worth the effort. Only the metal support ring was rusty, so gave it a coat of hammerite. 2 hours ago, beicmynydd said: I did thecsame cleaned degreased and re lubed the bearings and they where perfect at almost 20 years old. 2 hours ago, Shazbot said: I'm not stating anything as de-facto the way to do it just that if you don't do it when you can Karma generally bites you in the butt 😄 OE parts are always good to maintain as they tend to be better quality in the first place. Stripping and re-greasing is good as long as the bearing is still in good fettle. My grandchild transporter is an 06 Galaxy and when I stripped the strut as a result of an MOT advisory I found the top mount rubber was in 2nd class order and because the bearing had been put under loads at an odd angle it had caused the pig tail on the suspension spring to deform so always worth checking and replacing if unsure. Thanks for these notes chaps. I'm going to hold off on ordering top mounts and bearings. Once I get the struts out and the mounts off I'll give the bearings a thorough check and re-grease if no signs of unusual wear. The struts turn smoothly and with no obvious deterioration currently, also there is not a wide choice of easily orderable OEM quality parts other than hugely expensive OE. If I have to do it again in a few months or a year or so no major problem as one of the reasons for having the car it to work on it as well as drive it and it will spread the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 hours ago, PaulQ said: I bow to your greater experience, but I get the feeling that people just bin em without stripping and checking for any wear first. Mine would hardly turn when I removed them from the car, due to 22 years of crud in there, but an hour spent stripping/cleaning and regressing was well worth the effort. Only the metal support ring was rusty, so gave it a coat of hammerite. Mine were 20 years old and had 150k on them, but really just needed a clean and regrease and they were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nobbie said: Mine were 20 years old and had 150k on them, but really just needed a clean and regrease and they were fine. I'm hoping for the same as it will save £165 or so if I also don't change the top mounts on what was unplanned work. From the feel and working on them today I've no reason to believe they are shot at only 95k miles but also 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, ½cwt said: I'm hoping for the same as it will save £165 or so if I also don't change the top mounts on what was unplanned work. From the feel and working on them today I've no reason to believe they are shot at only 95k miles but also 20 years. If you do end up needing top mounts and bearings: OE 997 (revised) top mounts (actually have the Porsche part numbers ground off!): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SACHS-Suspension-Struts-Front-802-553-Discount-Car-Parts/192794966601 £25 a side, instead of £70 odd OPC charge. A pair of bearings from OPC were £62 this time last year. So, a saving of £50 or so, and genuine parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Still a firm belevier to go to all that effort... You may as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 8 hours ago, K.I.T.T. said: If you do end up needing top mounts and bearings: OE 997 (revised) top mounts (actually have the Porsche part numbers ground off!): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SACHS-Suspension-Struts-Front-802-553-Discount-Car-Parts/192794966601 £25 a side, instead of £70 odd OPC charge. A pair of bearings from OPC were £62 this time last year. So, a saving of £50 or so, and genuine parts. That puts a different slant on the maths as this is two Sachs items for about the price of one aftermarket.... 2 of these are now on order and I'll still check clean and re-grease the bearings and replace if they are worn. I have asked the same supplier if they have the bearings too, although a search of their shop doesn't throw them up. 8 hours ago, bally4563 said: Still a firm believer to go to all that effort... You may as well? I can be a glutton for punishment, so I guess we have different perspectives. I like taking cars a part and putting them back together.... From my perspective, if I to have the driveshafts out, say if doing a clutch, I'd carry out cleaning and inspection to see they are OK even if they had given no sign of problems. Repack with grease and refit, not replace just because they are off the car, and also not just refit without checking them. If when checking a problem is found, new ones go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 17 hours ago, ½cwt said: That puts a different slant on the maths as this is two Sachs items for about the price of one aftermarket.... 2 of these are now on order and I'll still check clean and re-grease the bearings and replace if they are worn. I have asked the same supplier if they have the bearings too, although a search of their shop doesn't throw them up. Whilst Sachs is the OEM for the top mounts, haven't found the OEM for the bearings. If required, suggest you get these from OPC. Had an issue with my previous 986 - like yourself, snapped a spring, and decided to go all in. Two OE springs, Lemforder top mounts and Lemforder bearings - only to find the bearings and top mounts didn't mate with each other! The original mounts were still good at the time, as were the bearings, which were regreased and reused. The Lemforder items were returned for a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 11 hours ago, K.I.T.T. said: Whilst Sachs is the OEM for the top mounts, haven't found the OEM for the bearings. If required, suggest you get these from OPC. Had an issue with my previous 986 - like yourself, snapped a spring, and decided to go all in. Two OE springs, Lemforder top mounts and Lemforder bearings - only to find the bearings and top mounts didn't mate with each other! The original mounts were still good at the time, as were the bearings, which were regreased and reused. The Lemforder items were returned for a refund. Hopefully no issue then with these Sachs top mounts and hopefully keeping the original bearings. On another but related matter to this work, anyone got any ideas how to free off a suborn top caliper retaining bolt. I've snapped a ball end Allen socket on it already (possibly optimistic on a big bar and it was Teng, so cheap..) and I'm hoping not to break a solid 10mm Allen key with a big bar on the end of it. Can't see how to get any penetrating oil into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulQ Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 4 hours ago, ½cwt said: I'm hoping not to break a solid 10mm Allen key with a big bar on the end of it. It took a 3ft long piece of box steel on the end of a standard Allen key to crack mine free... Once done they came out fine, but bear in mind the crud that builds up on the end of the exposed few threads, so go steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, PaulQ said: It took a 3ft long piece of box steel on the end of a standard Allen key to crack mine free... Once done they came out fine, but bear in mind the crud that builds up on the end of the exposed few threads, so go steady. Ah, I thought it was a blind hole into the upright. I'll try to get some Plus Gas on that end and a bit of wire brush work too. It is making noises like it wants to go like the others did it's not quite there but I'm building the confidence to put more torque on the Allen key. I suppose shearing the bolt is also possible but the worst case (and most expensive/inconvenient) is rounding out the head of the bolt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted April 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 19 hours ago, ½cwt said: Ah, I thought it was a blind hole into the upright. I'll try to get some Plus Gas on that end and a bit of wire brush work too. It is making noises like it wants to go like the others did it's not quite there but I'm building the confidence to put more torque on the Allen key. I suppose shearing the bolt is also possible but the worst case (and most expensive/inconvenient) is rounding out the head of the bolt.... It gave in in the end. Got it early this morning with the cooler weather and not letting the sun heat up the caliper. The only challenge I've got left is the bottom ball joint onto the coffin arm front right. The drop link is also seized in the up right but the bottom end has come off OK. Strangely front left is all OK including ball joint and drop link. I guess I must have been apart more recently. Once all this is done I can get the struts off the car and start getting the old springs off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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