I'm looking at a used 2003 986 tiptronic that blew its IMSB and had its engine replaced. Am I taking a risk when buying a car that's had its engine replaced?

[ghazalif]

The question is in the title. Nothing more to add!

[brillomaster]

generally id say yes. there are more questions to be asked, namely, when was the engine replaced, and what mileage and condition was the replacement engine in? was it porsche who replaced the engine under warranty, or was it outside of warranty?

but generally, i'd avoid cars which have had replacement engines. same reason i generally avoid crashed and then repaired cars.

[ghazalif]

10 minutes ago, brillomaster said:

generally id say yes. there are more questions to be asked, namely, when was the engine replaced, and what mileage and condition was the replacement engine in? was it porsche who replaced the engine under warranty, or was it outside of warranty?

but generally, i'd avoid cars which have had replacement engines. same reason i generally avoid crashed and then repaired cars.

It was replaced at 19K miles by Porsche in 2009. The new engine has had 12K miles on it since. 

[½cwt]

9 minutes ago, ghazalif said:

It was replaced at 19K miles by Porsche in 2009. The new engine has had 12K miles on it since. 

Given that it was done by Porsche and recorded in the history as such, much less of a risk but it will still be the same design bearing in the new motor.  However general wisdom seem to be if the IMSB is going to go it will be at lower mileage rather than waiting until its done 80+k miles.  That said the usage of the engine, lots of cold starts and short journeys could also be a contributing factor.  Bar this, a 31k miles '03 986 should be a pretty nice car, although suspension bushes and other rubber based components (tyres??) could be aged and still need a replacement plan just like a 60k, 90k or 120k car.

[ghazalif]

1 minute ago, ½cwt said:

Given that it was done by Porsche and recorded in the history as such, much less of a risk but it will still be the same design bearing in the new motor.  However general wisdom seem to be if the IMSB is going to go it will be at lower mileage rather than waiting until its done 80+k miles.  That said the usage of the engine, lots of cold starts and short journeys could also be a contributing factor.  Bar this, a 31k miles '03 986 should be a pretty nice car, although suspension bushes and other rubber based components (tyres??) could be aged and still need a replacement plan just like a 60k, 90k or 120k car.

so apparently the new engine is an 09 one which doesn't have the IMSB risk. That's what is attracting me to the car. Tyres will likely need replacing, so how much should I factor is as a cost for those? 

[Menoporsche]

Any 18 year old car comes with risk.  
Tyres is a “how long is a piece of string” discussion; I’ll suggest £5-800 depending on brand, and discounts available. 

[edc]

31 minutes ago, ghazalif said:

so apparently the new engine is an 09 one which doesn't have the IMSB risk. That's what is attracting me to the car. Tyres will likely need replacing, so how much should I factor is as a cost for those? 

If it's an S then there was no 3.2 in 2009. It won't be a 2009 engine as you find in a 2009 model year car. It will still have an IMS bearing but probably of the larger later type. 

[ghazalif]

2 minutes ago, edc said:

If it's an S then there was no 3.2 in 2009. It won't be a 2009 engine as you find in a 2009 model year car. It will still have an IMS bearing but probably of the larger later type. 

It's a 2.7, and the current owner said it's an 09 engine. I'm not sure what that means so I'll clarify.

[edc]

Just now, ghazalif said:

It's a 2.7, and the current owner said it's an 09 engine. I'm not sure what that means so I'll clarify.

In 2009 the new Boxster engines were a DFI 3.4 and a 2.9. It will be a 2.7 engine but that's not the same as a 2009 spec engine. I wouldn't rely on the information you are getting from the owner or seller in this case. 

[ghazalif]

3 minutes ago, edc said:

In 2009 the new Boxster engines were a DFI 3.4 and a 2.9. It will be a 2.7 engine but that's not the same as a 2009 spec engine. I wouldn't rely on the information you are getting from the owner or seller in this case. 

He said 'it was a brand new replacement engine from Porsche. It was the 2009 version of the 2.7 engine as it was replaced in 2009. Porsche knew about the Intermediary Bearing Shaft seal problem so they have the owner a new engine to fit. This was the 2009 engine version that didn’t have the IMBS seal issue. It’s not a second hand engine'

Edited July 5, 2021 by ghazalif

[Menoporsche]

My guess is it’s a MY07 or 08 engine. The engine number has a certain letter or number which shows it is an uprated replacement, I forgot which. 

[½cwt]

Ask the seller for the engine number.  There are people on here who can check out the provenance i.e. manufacture date and exact engine variant.

[ghazalif]

5 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Ask the seller for the engine number.  There are people on here who can check out the provenance i.e. manufacture date and exact engine variant.

Yep he's going to send it to me soon. Who specifically can check the provenance?

[edc]

Your engine if supplied by Porsche will still be an M96 engine. Just manufactured later than the original car was in 2003 or earlier. An M96 engine has an IMS bearing no matter which year it was made as it's an inherent part of the design. 

It is possible to fit the 987.2 2009 onwards engines but that is very costly and you'd think an owner pursuing this would know their onions. 

[½cwt]

29 minutes ago, ghazalif said:

Yep he's going to send it to me soon. Who specifically can check the provenance?

The so called V pages of the parts catalogue published here Porsche Classic Genuine Parts Catalogue - Porsche Great Britain by Porsche if you enter your model information has an initial level of information to work out spec, model year you get the whole parts catalogue as at end of series manufacture.  If more info is required there are a couple of members on here may be able to provide it but see what the engine number is first.  If it was Porsche supplied and fitted it would be highly unlikely to be anything other than the correct engine for the car regardless of later updates.

[Boxsum]

If it was fitted by Porsche on or after 2006 even though it’s the M96 engine it will have the later larger bearing which has very little failures. It’s what they done so if you can find a 986 with an engine replacement after this date which is also in great shape you should snap it up ASAP . There are very few out there that were replaced by Porsche and I think they command a premium 

[Boxsum]

 

(Inengineering.com)

Edited July 5, 2021 by Boxsum

[999mch]

I'd be more worried about the fact it has only averaged a 1,000 miles a year since the new engine was put in. My car had a new engine, and I spoke to a mechanic friend who asked when it had be done. Mine was done ages ago so he that is fine, it is when they have been newly fitted and 'forgotten' to connect things up that you should worry or was fitted by a mate !

[myfirstboxster]

If you like the car and you're happy with the price buy it .

[edc]

1 hour ago, myfirstboxster said:

If you like the car and you're happy with the price buy it .

Absolutely but make an informed choice and don't just believe everything a seller is saying! 

[½cwt]

3 hours ago, Boxsum said:

If it was fitted by Porsche on or after 2006 even though it’s the M96 engine it will have the later larger bearing which has very little failures. It’s what they done so if you can find a 986 with an engine replacement after this date which is also in great shape you should snap it up ASAP . There are very few out there that were replaced by Porsche and I think they command a premium 

There has to be an earlier cut off for that as there were a couple of changes in the variocam system and the way the solenoids and actuators were controlled and the control of that would require a DME change at least.  As ever with these things it would be good to find out more to be able to pass on better information in future.

[Boxsum]

21 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

There has to be an earlier cut off for that as there were a couple of changes in the variocam system and the way the solenoids and actuators were controlled and the control of that would require a DME change at least.  As ever with these things it would be good to find out more to be able to pass on better information in future.

You’d find out soon enough if you ever came to change it, as if it is the larger type you have to take the engine apart as the bearing is bigger than the IMS flange housing 🤣

I believe you can just take a peek with a scope when you change the oil to confirm if you don’t have any documentation. 

[Menoporsche]

I think 1/2cwt was referring to 2006-2007 differences. 

[mike597]

I wonder if porsche would have a record of what was fitted given the engine number? 

[mike597]

BTW this is the first tip car I remember hearing of that had imsb failure.