986 Convertible roof stuck in the closed position. Any ideas?

[RedBarediver]

I know it sounds like a strange problem to have but here goes;

I have had the hardtop on for a few weeks now since the in-laws came visiting and I couldn't leave the hardtop in its usual place (inside the living room 🙂) it's also been pouring on and off the last few weeks so I was happy to leave the roof on the car. It's out of the way and it prevents the convertible roof getting wet etc.

Anyhow, last week I drove the car and on starting it up I noticed the roof warning light on the dash is on. Of course I start worrying that water got in somewhere and got a microswitch wet or something. Obviously with the hard top on the roof can't be operated - and I didn't operate it. As I'm the only one that drives the car that rules out any inadvertent attempts to operate it whilst the hardtop is on. Not that it would make a difference I think. I'm pretty sure German engineers are clever enough to put an interlock on place to prevent any operation of the roof whilst the hardtop is on. 

I digress. Back to the topic at hand. Worried about water having gotten in somewhere I check under the seats. A little damp but nothing serious. No standing water or obvious wetness - even when I push my hand into the carpet as hard as I can. So, the hardtop has to come off so I can check the rest. Hardtop off and back in the lounge. Operate the convertible roof - all sounds okay and operates normally. Light on the dash doesn't go out and more worryingly the motor doesn't stop running when you put the roof back down. I have to check when the clamshell is in the right position and then stop operating the roof. Put the roof back up after a spirited run in the Spring sunshine (battery was a little weak so I had to drive it a bit to recharge the battery...) and the roof makes a little "pop" behind my right shoulder.... Not good. I try to open the roof again and now it won't budge. I can hear the motor click when I press the button on the dash (so I'm pretty sure the relay and relevant microswitches are okay) and I have a sneaking suspicion that one (or possible both) of the plastic pushrods have a broken ball joint now.

My question is; how do I open the roof manually to check all the bits? I know there is a procedure for closing the roof manually when it is open, but I can't see a procedure for opening the roof when it is stuck in the closed position. Any ideas?

Just to add, when I press the button I can hear the motor and relay "click", but that's all. The motor doesn't run. And the warning light remains on the dash.

Once I have the roof open so I can access the relevant bits, I can start investigating why the warning light remains on. I have a feeling that it's something to do with the motor and the microswitch in the middle of the clamshell. The microswitch for the brake works, the microswitch by the rear view mirror is fine (windows still drop properly when you unlock the top), and the relay works but there's something else going on. My guess - and it's just a guess - is that the "pop" was the ball joint either popping off, or breaking. The plastics are 26 years old after all so it's probably rather brittle.

Edited November 11, 2023 by RedBarediver

[DICKO74]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj7sNzVg72CAxWSQ0EAHdISAlkQz40FegQIHxA9&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxntJKWZpFac&usg=AOvVaw0rQNT9L2U_Blc_U7kOrxV-&opi=89978449

[RedBarediver]

11 hours ago, DICKO74 said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj7sNzVg72CAxWSQ0EAHdISAlkQz40FegQIHxA9&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxntJKWZpFac&usg=AOvVaw0rQNT9L2U_Blc_U7kOrxV-&opi=89978449

Thanks. I did watch this video and it's great information. But only once you have the top open so you can access everything. My top is closed and doesn't do anything other than drop the windows, and make a click sound at the rear. The clamshell does not unlock so I can't get to the mechanism to see what is wrong.

I have found some information on getting it open but I am struggling to get in from the front to pop things off.

[RedBarediver]

Well, I managed to remove the little windshield between the seats. This gave me enough access to lift the little curtain at the back and pull it forward. So, now I can see the motor and cables going into it. They look fine. In order to get the clamshell open I need to pop off the black ball joints on the pushrods on both sides apparently. I think it's probably easier to disconnect the little clips holding the pushrod to the clamshell than trying to pop off the ball joints. I have tried getting the tension ropes disconnected but they are TIGHT! And there is such limited space that you can't get the right angle.

Before I disconnect the clips I shall do some more research to make sure I don't screw things up more than they are already.

[RedBarediver]

17 minutes ago, RedBarediver said:

Well, I managed to remove the little windshield between the seats. This gave me enough access to lift the little curtain at the back and pull it forward. So, now I can see the motor and cables going into it. They look fine. In order to get the clamshell open I need to pop off the black ball joints on the pushrods on both sides apparently. I think it's probably easier to disconnect the little clips holding the pushrod to the clamshell than trying to pop off the ball joints. I have tried getting the tension ropes disconnected but they are TIGHT! And there is such limited space that you can't get the right angle.

Before I disconnect the clips I shall do some more research to make sure I don't screw things up more than they are already.

If anyone needs to do this in future I'll keep updating this thread as I go along. It will probably end up costing me a fortune to have an expert redo it after I'm done with it but who dares wins, right?

There are two of these clips that I will now try to undo. If all works as it should (and as I hope) then I should be able to lift the clamshell without damaging anything..

https://www.design911.co.uk/p/cabrio-roof-hinge-lever-safety-clip-porsche-986-boxster/#fancybox-635474-1

Edited November 12, 2023 by RedBarediver

[RedBarediver]

49 minutes ago, RedBarediver said:

If anyone needs to do this in future I'll keep updating this thread as I go along. It will probably end up costing me a fortune to have an expert redo it after I'm done with it but who dares wins, right?

There are two of these clips that I will now try to undo. If all works as it should (and as I hope) then I should be able to lift the clamshell without damaging anything..

https://www.design911.co.uk/p/cabrio-roof-hinge-lever-safety-clip-porsche-986-boxster/#fancybox-635474-1

Clamshell is open and I can confirm one of the red ball joints is broken. Paul from Torque Boxster has kindly offered to send some my way and I have ordered new clips from Design911 so I can put it all back together again.

For future reference if anyone has the same problem, here's what I did to get the clamshell open without damaging anything further.

Step one: Remove the little windscreen between the seats.

You need to do this so you have access to the little rain curtain at the rear. These things clip out easily but if you have never done it before you'll scratch your head until you figure it out. You lift the little lever on the clip slightly (until you feel it can't lift anymore), then you push the little windshield towards the rear of the car (use the clip so you don't break anything). The clip just pops out. Do the same on the other side if you need to (I didn't because as the first one popped out the other one came out by itself). I kept on trying to lift the little windshield but that's not the way it works - you push it towards the back of the car (German engineers do have a sense of humour it seems).

Step two: Undo the little rain cover from the two clips on the rear firewall. Just push the bottom of the rain cover down and it will pop out of its little brackets. Once this cover is loose you can lift it up and access the motor and cables in the middle of the car and more importantly you can see the clamshell hinge mechanisms on either side.

Step three: Undo the storage box (if you have one and slide it around to give you access to the sides). Look at the clamshell hinge mechanism and you'll notice that the middle of the hinge has a little clip. There are two exactly the same clips, one at the end, and one in the middle. You want to undo the one in the middle. I managed to undo the clips by putting my one arm under the roll bar - where the storage box stopped access until I moved it, and the other arm between the rollbar and side of the roof. Once you have removed these two clips you can lift the clamshell and get into the rest of the mechanism. The clips won't survive - just order new ones from Design 911 (£2.59 each).

Now that I am in I can see that the one red ball joint has broken so I have put off working on it any further until I have the replacement ball joints and the clips. I'll put the roof in service mode properly and also inspect the drip trays - hopefully the broken ball joint has not resulted in the pushrod poking a hole in the drip tray. If it has then that's something else I will deal with whilst I am in there. For the moment the car is under a rain cover with a C-Tek charger on the battery in disgrace.

Edited November 12, 2023 by RedBarediver

[Daboy3000]

I can't see how a broken ball joint would put a light on.  Are you sure you haven't disconnected the switch on the passengers side of the roof frame which tells the motor to stop when it's in the correct position?  

I've replaced the roof, reset all the gear positions, replaced a motor, replaced a drip tray etc.  I'm also not far from you so if you get stuck just shout, I'm sure we can get this sorted.

[RedBarediver]

3 hours ago, Daboy3000 said:

I can't see how a broken ball joint would put a light on.  Are you sure you haven't disconnected the switch on the passengers side of the roof frame which tells the motor to stop when it's in the correct position?  

I've replaced the roof, reset all the gear positions, replaced a motor, replaced a drip tray etc.  I'm also not far from you so if you get stuck just shout, I'm sure we can get this sorted.

Thanks mate. The light was already on whilst I still had the hardtop on the car. I surmised that one of the microswitches could have gotten wet - and that triggered the warning light. It's never had a warning light for the roof in the 5 years I've owned the car. I took the hardtop off to check but couldn't see anything amiss. Cycled the roof  few times to see if it cleared. It didn't. I then noticed that the motor overruns so I ensured I stop it when the clamshell is in the right position.

Took it for a drive to blow the cobwebs away and when I got home I put the roof up. That's when I heard the dreaded "pop".

Once I have the plastic ball joint sorted out I'll check the microswitch because I just know the light will still be on. I wouldn't have addressed the original problem yet.

[Daboy3000]

OK mate.

Probably went pop because the gears either side have gone out of sync (due to motor overrun).  When mine did this it bent the clamshell meaning it wouldn't properly go down on one side, I had to bend it back straight over a pillow.

There is a switch on the old style roof that stops the the motor when it's in position, can't remember if this is for fully open, fully closed or both but worth checking.  This may be faulty or has come unplugged.  Could have happened when you put on the hardtop as I think it's near the cable for the heated rear screen.

The switch is like this but only comes on the early cars as after a couple of years they changed the whole motor setup.

[RedBarediver]

12 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

OK mate.

Probably went pop because the gears either side have gone out of sync (due to motor overrun).  When mine did this it bent the clamshell meaning it wouldn't properly go down on one side, I had to bend it back straight over a pillow.

There is a switch on the old style roof that stops the the motor when it's in position, can't remember if this is for fully open, fully closed or both but worth checking.  This may be faulty or has come unplugged.  Could have happened when you put on the hardtop as I think it's near the cable for the heated rear screen.

The switch is like this but only comes on the early cars as after a couple of years they changed the whole motor setup.

Great stuff. That is very helpful, thanks!

I agree, I think something has gone out of sync. Mine is an old car (1997) so it would most likely have this switch. It was all fine when I put the hard top on - I didn't even bother plugging in the heating element for the rear window because the in-laws were just here for a week and of course she took the opportunity to ban the hard top from its usual resting place - at least the usual place until I get the Alfa Spider sold off and the garage a bit emptier so I can hang it from the rafters. After that horrendous spate of rain we had the warning light came on.

Looking at the microswitch in the image above I'm pretty sure some water ingress from somewhere is to blame for the warning light. It may even be worth looking at getting a replacement switch and changing it out just in case.

[Daboy3000]

Just now, RedBarediver said:

Looking at the microswitch in the image above I'm pretty sure some water ingress from somewhere is to blame for the warning light. It may even be worth looking at getting a replacement switch and changing it out just in case.

Get a multimeter on it with a continuity tester.

[RedBarediver]

12 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

Get a multimeter on it with a continuity tester.

I plan to. I'm not much of an electrician but I do love testing for continuity😀 It's the one thing I understand...

[RedBarediver]

49 minutes ago, Daboy3000 said:

OK mate.

Probably went pop because the gears either side have gone out of sync (due to motor overrun).  When mine did this it bent the clamshell meaning it wouldn't properly go down on one side, I had to bend it back straight over a pillow.

There is a switch on the old style roof that stops the the motor when it's in position, can't remember if this is for fully open, fully closed or both but worth checking.  This may be faulty or has come unplugged.  Could have happened when you put on the hardtop as I think it's near the cable for the heated rear screen.

The switch is like this but only comes on the early cars as after a couple of years they changed the whole motor setup.

Part number is 986.613.101.02 98661310102 but I do hope the old one just needs a good clean with some WD40.... a new one from Porsche is £106.

If you get it off eBay it's £153. (Steve Strange has a few used ones at £75 so if need be that's the way I'll go).

I'll get in there on the weekend and see if I can save the old one.

Edited November 13, 2023 by RedBarediver