roof not communicating

[BobbyA]

Hi All.

2007 Boxster 3.4S 987

I had a problem with water under the passengers seat, everything going off, clam shell lifting, alarm would not stop, both boot and bonnet refused to open, and spoiler raised, would not go down. It appears that the rear control module got damaged whilst under water. I have replaced that module, and with my Autel diagnostic machine, I have managed to get everything working except the roof will not operate, message is roof not communicating, no power appears to be going to the motor.   I have checked all the fuses, and the Two separate relays (not a double one) and they appear to be fine. has anyone had this problem? or know how to get the roof working again. I also now have an airbag light on, however it was off for a while during programming, I probable got some settings wrong. I have also checked the roof micro-switches and have no reason to suspect these.  I would appreciate some help if its out there. Thanks. 

[Paul P]

Welcome to the forum.... below is based on limited experience and vague memory - take it as a "hint" rather than gospel and I will caveat it with "I did it with a PIWIS2 unit, not an Autel and I fumbled my way through it' - others with more experience may be along in a while but here's what I have...

The unit you replaced is the RCU - Rear Control Unit - they are shared between 987 boxster and cayman and 997's - as such they are a bit generic as standard  - I helped a guy out from another forum since I have access to a PIWIS and he had the same situation as you....

In the PIWIS setup (and I don't know how the Autel represents things - changed the following 4 things in the Rear Control Unit (basically to match my cars values from it's scan)

Vehicle Type: Boxster

Country: 987 GB/Netherlands/Malta/Cyprus

Spoiler: RETRACTABLE

Convertible Top, new hood control active: new

 It was the last setting that "woke" the roof - once that was set to "new" (and I have no idea what determines old vs new there - but his was a 2007 3.4s, mine is a 2011 2.9 gen 2 - and both are "new") - once that was set the windows dropped when we undid the roof catch and the roof "tried" to open when we pressed the buttons - it didn't open, we subsequently found out that during the madness caused by the water the car had tried to open the roof with the latch locked shut - and has therefore broken the plastic ball joints on the roof rods (common issue - rods and caps about 70 quid from porsche - replacement caps about 10 quid from ebay - google is your friend there is you hit similar)

Couple of points to note - no roof errors messages - just played dead - until the setting above when it all started to try........ - but I have an idea about that.

Here's the vague memory bit: - There is a setting in the GATEWAY section of the controllers for "convertible top installed" - this apparently is for a 997 Cabriolet - which uses a different system for roof control - i have a memory of reading somewhere that setting this on a boxster causes a message relating to not being able to communicate with the roof - I may have that wrong - but, for sure, on mine and his (and another 987 I have scanned) - the GATEWAY setting "convertible top installed" is set to not installed.

He also had an airbag light - we didn't investigate that but assumed it was the fact that he had the seat out of the car whilst drying and replacing the ECU and had of course had the ignition on with the seat removed. He was going to get a specialist to replace the roof rods and sort the airbag light - so we didn't go further.

Hope it helps, and if you are anywhere near Rochester in Kent - then happy to offer to plug into PIWIS - but it sounds like the Autel can do what you need - just translating between what PIWIS would call it and how it's represented in other systems.

Hope this helps in someway.

 

[BobbyA]

6 hours ago, Paul P said:

Welcome to the forum.... below is based on limited experience and vague memory - take it as a "hint" rather than gospel and I will caveat it with "I did it with a PIWIS2 unit, not an Autel and I fumbled my way through it' - others with more experience may be along in a while but here's what I have...

The unit you replaced is the RCU - Rear Control Unit - they are shared between 987 boxster and cayman and 997's - as such they are a bit generic as standard  - I helped a guy out from another forum since I have access to a PIWIS and he had the same situation as you....

In the PIWIS setup (and I don't know how the Autel represents things - changed the following 4 things in the Rear Control Unit (basically to match my cars values from it's scan)

Vehicle Type: Boxster

Country: 987 GB/Netherlands/Malta/Cyprus

Spoiler: RETRACTABLE

Convertible Top, new hood control active: new

 It was the last setting that "woke" the roof - once that was set to "new" (and I have no idea what determines old vs new there - but his was a 2007 3.4s, mine is a 2011 2.9 gen 2 - and both are "new") - once that was set the windows dropped when we undid the roof catch and the roof "tried" to open when we pressed the buttons - it didn't open, we subsequently found out that during the madness caused by the water the car had tried to open the roof with the latch locked shut - and has therefore broken the plastic ball joints on the roof rods (common issue - rods and caps about 70 quid from porsche - replacement caps about 10 quid from ebay - google is your friend there is you hit similar)

Couple of points to note - no roof errors messages - just played dead - until the setting above when it all started to try........ - but I have an idea about that.

Here's the vague memory bit: - There is a setting in the GATEWAY section of the controllers for "convertible top installed" - this apparently is for a 997 Cabriolet - which uses a different system for roof control - i have a memory of reading somewhere that setting this on a boxster causes a message relating to not being able to communicate with the roof - I may have that wrong - but, for sure, on mine and his (and another 987 I have scanned) - the GATEWAY setting "convertible top installed" is set to not installed.

He also had an airbag light - we didn't investigate that but assumed it was the fact that he had the seat out of the car whilst drying and replacing the ECU and had of course had the ignition on with the seat removed. He was going to get a specialist to replace the roof rods and sort the airbag light - so we didn't go further.

Hope it helps, and if you are anywhere near Rochester in Kent - then happy to offer to plug into PIWIS - but it sounds like the Autel can do what you need - just translating between what PIWIS would call it and how it's represented in other systems.

Hope this helps in someway. 

 

Hi Paul. 

Just got home to receive this very detailed reply, I am very grateful for your time spent in writing it. I will go through what I can although much of this I think I have already tried, the Autel MaxiSys MS906BT  may not be as good as the PIWIS specifically designed for Porches, I'm not really sure having not used PIWIS, but it is a very professional piece of kit and would recommend it to anyone as I doubt there is a car of any make you cant do on it.  The Gateway issue is interesting, I will need to play with that, maybe someone will have a full tick list of what to select when programming the system, I know the airbag was off originally and I have ticked on and off so many commands that I am sure I have done something wrong there,  ie what airbags are active or not,  do I tick the head airbags on a convertible as I get different issues there also in communicating. 

On the last setting you mention Convertible Top, new hood control active: new  I do not think I have the word "NEW" on the Autel, just the words "installed" or uninstalled" I think I will try uninstalled and not the obvious one would tick. 

I do not really know yet if any of the roof rods got damaged as I can not see them properly, but I would definitely hear the motors if they would start to engage, it needs to "Wake UP" there is no indications that power is getting to the roof motor.  This was the same for the rear spoiler that stuck up, on testing with the Autel in some forgotten diagnostic mode I could light up the switch indicator light but not the motor, however playing with the "comfort" settings then started the motor and I have that working properly now.   It was a great relief that I found out how to open the bonnet and boot lids as these also stopped due to a fried RCU, I expect many members have been stuck on that one. 

Due to work commitments I may not be able to attend the 987 until later in the week, which will give me some ear ache as its the wife's car and the moaning has already started as she cannot enjoy the current sunshine. I must be the only man praying for rain in July!!

Thanks for the welcome, I will let you know how I get on one way or another, if I get the correct coding I will copy the commands and list them for the future. 

Regards BobbyA

[Paul P]

Even with the piwis it’s a bit of guess work. 

I *think* that “not communicating” means “you have told me something is there and I can’t talk to it” so similar to the airbag the roof not communicating seems to bear out my guess. 

Comfort settings are normally related to things that you can operate by holding the remote button or key in the lock  so closing or opening windows  on the 911 (without the physical catch i assume ) I think you can close the roof front the key etc  

Does the autel ( which does seem like a great piece of kit ) divide the control modules up into rear/dme/steering column etc.  - that would match the PIWIS and the actual modules in the car.  ?

reason I ask is all the programming I did for the one I did was in the rear control module  there are only about 10 things in there so by a process of elimination we may be able to find the right combo   I think the key combo is body style boxster ( its a soft top ) and “new” which I have a memory of there being a different roof motor setup in very easily 987’s but I might be wrong on that  

As to wake up  the first indication we got that we were close was the windows dropping when you unlock the catch  we could then hear the motor trying  

there’s a thread on here somewhere that lists people with Durametric and or PIWIS  if you find someone local to you may get a view of the same data from another system  Not suggesting the autel can’t do it’s a more well known route with the other two (Piwis has its quirks  not least that some things are not translated from German and other things are messed up like sometime it will say “driver” side not taking into account left hand drive) so it’s all a guess  I was lucky since I had a reference scan of a working setup so I just matched it  

Alternatively  if you know anyone else with a 987 plug in and take some readings from their car and compare  

i assume that you have sorted the source of the water (roof drains)? 

 

[Buzzlt]

Had similar problems with mine. Assume you have exactly the right part number for the replacement RCU. I bought one in error with I think 06 at the end instead of 04. It was from a 997 with a sunroof so everything worked correctly except the roof. I don’t think you can alter the program in the RCU hence the difference in part numbers. I think the RCU’s are identical for all models except that they might be hard coded differently. I think I also found out they are used in the back of a VW toureg. FYI mine is a 2006 so may be completely different as well. Good luck as this is a good time of year to get the roof down I was lucky as mine failed in the middle of winter!

[BobbyA]

6 hours ago, Paul P said:

Even with the piwis it’s a bit of guess work. 

I *think* that “not communicating” means “you have told me something is there and I can’t talk to it” so similar to the airbag the roof not communicating seems to bear out my guess. 

Comfort settings are normally related to things that you can operate by holding the remote button or key in the lock  so closing or opening windows  on the 911 (without the physical catch i assume ) I think you can close the roof front the key etc  

Does the autel ( which does seem like a great piece of kit ) divide the control modules up into rear/dme/steering column etc.  - that would match the PIWIS and the actual modules in the car.  ?

reason I ask is all the programming I did for the one I did was in the rear control module  there are only about 10 things in there so by a process of elimination we may be able to find the right combo   I think the key combo is body style boxster ( its a soft top ) and “new” which I have a memory of there being a different roof motor setup in very easily 987’s but I might be wrong on that  

As to wake up  the first indication we got that we were close was the windows dropping when you unlock the catch  we could then hear the motor trying  

there’s a thread on here somewhere that lists people with Durametric and or PIWIS  if you find someone local to you may get a view of the same data from another system  Not suggesting the autel can’t do it’s a more well known route with the other two (Piwis has its quirks  not least that some things are not translated from German and other things are messed up like sometime it will say “driver” side not taking into account left hand drive) so it’s all a guess  I was lucky since I had a reference scan of a working setup so I just matched it  

Alternatively  if you know anyone else with a 987 plug in and take some readings from their car and compare  

i assume that you have sorted the source of the water (roof drains)? 

 

Hi Paul.

I have cleared the airbag light, at least for now, the other thing is I now have got somewhere with the roof, I have a clicking sound when I am in diagnostic mode where I can actuate roof opening, didn't have that before, the sound is coming from the clam shell, its a regular clicking as if its a wheel in motion catching something as it goes around. I assume this is the mechanism that opens the clam, however it is not opening. So it is possible that as you say, the rods may have become damaged & I read somewhere that there is a transmission? in there somewhere. 

Have tried operating  "With Convertible roof". and "Without convertible roof" but not any response to those commands. 

assuming that whatever is damaged, the shell would normally open , then a microswitch kicks in to start the hood motor, just guessing.  I cant see as I cant get the hood down.  Question. Is there a way I can manually open the clam shell? This will then enable me to inspect the mechanism.  Whilst I am getting somewhere with the Autel, I think I am going to purchase a Durametric lead and software, there is an offer on that system at the moment. I think it may be money well spent.  I have not been able to see if the water channels are blocked either, as again need to get the clam open. 

[BobbyA]

3 hours ago, Buzzlt said:

Had similar problems with mine. Assume you have exactly the right part number for the replacement RCU. I bought one in error with I think 06 at the end instead of 04. It was from a 997 with a sunroof so everything worked correctly except the roof. I don’t think you can alter the program in the RCU hence the difference in part numbers. I think the RCU’s are identical for all models except that they might be hard coded differently. I think I also found out they are used in the back of a VW toureg. FYI mine is a 2006 so may be completely different as well. Good luck as this is a good time of year to get the roof down I was lucky as mine failed in the middle of winter!

Hi Buzzit.

I purchased the part new from Design911, the chap on the phone took my model and appeared to know what he was sending, however I did not check any numbers on it, stupid me, I failed there, it looked identical and plugged in ok.  I guess it will mean removing the seat again to check!! only now I know that these can fit other models, however if there is basic programming in them for the multi model range, I don't see any reason why my diagnostic can not programme it to my model, nothing worked on plug in, ideally I could of copied the original eprom and written it direct to the new RCU, however I did try and nothing could be read properly, as soon as I plugged the old unit back, after 3 days of drying in the recent heatwave, all the symptoms returned, so did not want to read, then write to the new unit for fear of getting the same.  The new unit did not operate properly either, but with the Autel,  bit by bit I have got all the parts to operate as should except the hood, however now I have woken some kind of motor in the clam shell as explained to Paul in my earlier post. need to get that open for further inspection.   Many thanks for your input, I am very grateful. 

[Paul P]

3 hours ago, BobbyA said:

Hi Paul.

I have cleared the airbag light, at least for now, the other thing is I now have got somewhere with the roof, I have a clicking sound when I am in diagnostic mode where I can actuate roof opening, didn't have that before, the sound is coming from the clam shell, its a regular clicking as if its a wheel in motion catching something as it goes around. I assume this is the mechanism that opens the clam, however it is not opening. So it is possible that as you say, the rods may have become damaged & I read somewhere that there is a transmission? in there somewhere. 

Have tried operating  "With Convertible roof". and "Without convertible roof" but not any response to those commands. 

assuming that whatever is damaged, the shell would normally open , then a microswitch kicks in to start the hood motor, just guessing.  I cant see as I cant get the hood down.  Question. Is there a way I can manually open the clam shell? This will then enable me to inspect the mechanism.  Whilst I am getting somewhere with the Autel, I think I am going to purchase a Durametric lead and software, there is an offer on that system at the moment. I think it may be money well spent.  I have not been able to see if the water channels are blocked either, as again need to get the clam open. 

That’s exactly where we got to and the guy I was helping decided to take it to an Indy for the “physical”’stuff.  

We got conflicting info at this point.  Some Porsche manuals online suggest you can lift the clamshell, we tried and failed but the essence seems to be the first “motion” is from the front of the clamshell at the. bottom of the window, kind of an upnand forward  

Other pages describe getting at the pivots from inside the car which is always described as a fiddly process but basically involves either removing the centre bolt (19mm) from the pivots either side or disconnecting the rods. 

Not done this part so can’t advise 

this looks like it may help 

http://www.revolution-porsche.co.uk/faq/convertible-roof-stuck-working-can-closeopen-manually/

Durametric is a really good tool. I think for the kind of stuff you did to get this far you would need to get the pro version, that allows for coding units.  The enthusiast version clears errors and resets service lights but won’t set options as far as I understand. 

I think you are close. 

[BobbyA]

3 hours ago, Paul P said:

That’s exactly where we got to and the guy I was helping decided to take it to an Indy for the “physical”’stuff.  

We got conflicting info at this point.  Some Porsche manuals online suggest you can lift the clamshell, we tried and failed but the essence seems to be the first “motion” is from the front of the clamshell at the. bottom of the window, kind of an upnand forward  

Other pages describe getting at the pivots from inside the car which is always described as a fiddly process but basically involves either removing the centre bolt (19mm) from the pivots either side or disconnecting the rods. 

Not done this part so can’t advise 

this looks like it may help 

http://www.revolution-porsche.co.uk/faq/convertible-roof-stuck-working-can-closeopen-manually/

Durametric is a really good tool. I think for the kind of stuff you did to get this far you would need to get the pro version, that allows for coding units.  The enthusiast version clears errors and resets service lights but won’t set options as far as I understand. 

I think you are close. 

Paul.

The link is useful information as I can see the position and method to remove the ball links on the rods. however it shows the top in the down position and access looks much better, not so easy to see anything in the roof "UP" position? must get that clam shell open to drop the hood, info will be a great help, thanks for that. I have purchased the Pro Durametric, as it has unlimited cars, whereas the other editions seem to restrict to 3 cars and no real back up or updates. at £645 I think it is a good investment, not to mention I have a total addiction to car tools of any kind, if you came here you would laugh your socks off at my addiction, I don't think there is a cure either, it just gets worse with age. The Durametric will be here tomorrow, I will have another go this afternoon and see if I can make further headway. 

[Paul P]

I get the tool addiction. Totally.  

The diagram does show the roof down.  But the clamshell is in the same position as it is when the roof is up and the method of release appears to the the “back” ball / socket on the pivot. The access is from inside the car. More difficult with the roof up but I think from my reading the same process applies.  

From inside. Pop the sockets.  That releases the mechanisms hold on the clamshell, it’s held closed by the mechanism so you have to release it by the looks. 

There’s a bar in the toolkit for popping the sockets. I think that may be too short for getting at them from the front but (like me by the sounds) you probably have a choice of things that may reach.  

In my research I never found anyone showing any other way of getting a totally closed clamshell open. 

Suggest try your luck and call a specialist (maybe revolution who posted that doc) or a Porsche centre, ask them if there is a trick or if you have to pop the balls from the inside. Nothing ventured etc.  

[Paul P]

That doc on the revolution site is from the owners manual I have discovered - it's the same, slightly updated in my 987.2 manual. For me it re-enforces the process is to pop the "back" (D) balls off the pivot. I can't see any other way to get to them. The mechanism is "clever" mechanically - one motor feeding two gearboxes, each driving a single pivot that in part of the cycle opens the clam in another part moves the roof. I did wonder at the time that if I got the roof to a certain position manually then the cycle may complete and lift the shell - but since I suspect the roof isn't properly connected to the pivots then I don't know if that would work.