981 Sound + upgrade

[Patt]

If you are adding speakers then I would strongly recommend adding another small amp to run them. You can piggy back of the ASK to bypass the Canbus issues. 

The Rockford Fosgate Punch series are usually had for about £50-70 on ebay and are excellent. They usually push out way more than they advertise too, JBL amps are designed by Harman Kardon and are a good 2nd to the Rockford kit.  If you recall the 986 added an extra, all be it small, amp to run the Bose parcel shelf.

I seem to think the Bose adds a 6" mid behind each seat - I'll have to check when I next get to leave my desk.

 

From Stuart's pictures the door looks to have a bass and mid range - you would struggle to find a replacement for the bass but it wouldn't hurt to put a better mid range in - ohh and a small bit of sound deadening behind them works wonders.  Hertz to an excellent range of such speakers that will run mid and top frequencies easily and with a good sound, most capable small speakers I've come across and about £60 the pair !

[Patt]

If you are adding speakers I would strongly advise adding a small amp to run them.  If you recall even Porsche added a separate small amp for the Bose parcel shelf speakers on the 986.  You can easy piggyback the input to a 2nd amp from the ASK amp and thus avoid the Canbus issues as long as your new amp has the facility to adjust input gain (most do). The Rockford Fosgate Punch series are excellent, can be had for £50-70 second hand of ebay and always push out more than they advertise.  A good 2nd place would be the JBL amps as they are designed and built by Harmon Kardon and are similarly prices.

I seem to recall the Bose on the 981 adds a 6" mid behind each seat - I'll have to remember to check next time I pop outside to pollute my lungs.

Looking at Stuarts door picture you have a large bass speaker and a midrange.  You'll struggle to find a thin enough bass replacement however the mid range could be upgraded.  Hertz do cracking speakers for the price and will take anything thrown at them without distorting.  I'd also recommend a small bit of sound deadening stuck to the door behind both speakers.

[GTB981]

Thanks, have used Hertz before with great success. The link above states that 8" Hertz ESF20.5 were fitted. The invoice also mentions adaptors. My current plan was to use these with a pair of Foal PC100 4" 2 ways as mid-range in the existing door locations. From another forum apparently the standard tweeters are O.K but I may go for a Hertz component set 4" with crossovers and tweeters instead of just the 4" mid-ranges. Need to get a panel off to look at some point.

When you say piggy back the amp I am assuming you mean wire the amp in series between the output of the ASK amp and speakers ?

[GTB981]

Ignore my last sentence I see you put a 2nd post which clarifies it. Cheers.

[Patt]

My explorer crashed and wasn't showing that the original post was sent.

I managed to blow a pair of Fosgate tweeters once - replaced them with Hertz 3" speakers and they really lifted the sound stage.  I was impressed as I hadn't even changed the crossover freq or anything !

I was pointed to them by the acoustic designer at Harman Kardon- you don't get much better as a recommendation as we were working on a build together many years ago.

[Patt]

Oh and please share your weave porn too !

I've decided Alice needs a Christmas pressie - that usually means some carbon

[fat haggis]

As said on the first page. My sound upgrade is fantastic. 😍

[GTB981]

Interesting that according to the technical manual wiring diagram the input from the head unit to the ASK amp is 4 channel. The output is 7 channel. Therefore some filtering is done within the ASK amp to separate the frequencies. Surely then a 6 channel amp would be needed to piggy back the output of the ASK ? If you used a 4 channel you would surely miss some frequencies as the tweeter range has been pre-filtered in the ASK amp and these outputs would be redundant ?

Sorry for the waffling. 

[Patt]

More often than not the only "frequency filtering" is a capacitor on the speaker itself !

Some bass outputs are pre-filtered at the amp , or even selectable on aftermarket amps.

I'd take the door feeds rather than tweeters as they will be full range, and series wire a 2ch amp if you are planning on 4" or 6 " behind seats. 4CH if easier to source and not too big for install. 

If you are planning upgrading the tweaters - look at the 3" Hertz speakers (if they can be made to fit)

I've probabaly got a 2ch Fosgate amp in the loft that's about 4x4x1.5 in size. I used it bridged to drive a sub.

 

[daz05]

Patt, great information.  I have added Audi mids and tweeters behind the seats in the way you suggested, there is a BMW adapter that you can buy that bridges the ASK amp and speaker connections it's easily removable if you have warranty and you don't need to play with the cars wiring.  Do you think i should add the Amp you suggested to power these speakers instead?  I wasn't unhappy with the sound it just felt like it was too much at the front of the car and i've found this mod helps to redistribute the sound a bit better.

 

 

[GTB981]

Any details on this BMW bridge cable Dazo ?

[daz05]

3 hours ago, GTB981 said:

Any details on this BMW bridge cable Dazo ?

Autoleads SOT 903 but I believe there are others. The amp connector is marked BMW and has one of their part no's.

You'll need to cut the autoleads cable and solder back together to allow it to fit under the carpet below your driver's seat.

You'll find that each ask amp is coded to the car so the Cayman version has additional output for the rear speakers. Ours doesn't so you need to go into the mids in the doors.

[GTB981]

Cheers, much appreciated. Thought amp was under passenger seat ?

[Patt]

17 hours ago, daz05 said:

Patt, great information.  Do you think i should add the Amp you suggested to power these speakers instead?  I wasn't unhappy with the sound it just felt like it was too much at the front of the car and i've found this mod helps to redistribute the sound a bit better.

If you have bridged channels to add more speakers - you are asking the amplifier to work harder to produce the same volume of sound.

In car terms you are asking a RWD engine to drive all 4 wheels.  Most modern amps will be fine, as long as you don't expect full volume for long periods.  I would also ensure the amp is well ventilated as it will run hotter whilst working harder - again most have overheating cut-offs.

Personally I'd do the same for general mid range speakers and tweeters (or at least trial it first to see if the amp can cope), however If I was wanting more bass - I'd add an amplifier - as per my suggestions to GTB as he wants bass behind the seats.

[daz05]

46 minutes ago, Patt said:

If you have bridged channels to add more speakers - you are asking the amplifier to work harder to produce the same volume of sound.

In car terms you are asking a RWD engine to drive all 4 wheels.  Most modern amps will be fine, as long as you don't expect full volume for long periods.  I would also ensure the amp is well ventilated as it will run hotter whilst working harder - again most have overheating cut-offs.

Personally I'd do the same for general mid range speakers and tweeters (or at least trial it first to see if the amp can cope), however If I was wanting more bass - I'd add an amplifier - as per my suggestions to GTB as he wants bass behind the seats.

Thanks again Patt, I've run this set up for a year without issue and it's really improved things for me, i did consider fitting a Cayman amp with the additional outputs but aftermarket is probably the best solution if you go down that route.  You are limited to which speakers you can fit in the grills behind the seats, 4" mids max and tweeters unless you want to start chopping which I don't.  Bass would be nice but space is the issue, bigger priority for me is some Dynamat or equivalent on the doors.

 

  

[GTB981]

I don`t want bass behind the seats. My plan is to put 8" slimline woofers in doors with 4" mid-range also in doors and poss new tweeters in dash. All in existing positions. I may try just swapping out the speakers first to see what results. However, probably won`t get round to it for a while so early planning stage at present.

[daz05]

6 hours ago, GTB981 said:

Cheers, much appreciated. Thought amp was under passenger seat ?

It would be on a left hand drive car so under drivers here in the UK.

 

 

[Patt]

My miss understanding sir.

In that case I would say replace the speakers first and see if the improvement is what you were looking for.

2nd step would be suitable amplification.

 

Have fun

[GTB981]

I have ordered some trim removal tools and will then take a peek.......

[fat haggis]

All the mods done to my car amp and speakers and sound matting are done to make the car look OEM. I have published the receipt with all the parts used . and it really sounds great. 🥃

[GTB981]

Last night I downloaded and read the manual for the JL XD400/4 amplifier. I now have a better understanding of how to set this all up. Using the Autoleads SOT-903 lead bridge the output of the ASK amp and wire the XD400 in series. Use the current standard mid channel (the 4" door speaker one) for the component sets vis the supplied crossovers on channel 1 and 2. Fit these in 4" door pod and tweeter pod (no panel cut). Use the current standard woofer channel (8" door speaker) for the new subs on channel 3 and 4. With the optional wired remote on channel 3 and 4 you have control over the base level and can fine tune the system. 

I see on the linked invoice mention of speaker pods ? I don`t suppose anyone knows for which speaker location these may be required ?

Once I get panel trim tools (Amazon) I will whip a panel off and take a looky and hopefully then have the confidence to order components for install over Xmas.