sa utah Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 I think I’d have already had the car into a specialist and had it repaired by now and be enjoying it again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted February 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Kevin450 This video clip is a 911 Turbo S with a PDK, PDK is a different animal. Of what I read PDK does not like slow speeds and low RPM, also (as I understand) it has no T.C. The clip lacks sound so there is no way to say whether the engine revs fluctuate or not, therefore as it satnds it can be just an indication fault of the gauge or the sender. Based on the clip I would not rush into conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 hours ago, kevin450 said: same defect but no answer Can you hear the engine revs changing? Does it happen one gear lower, as there are two clutches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Freeman said: Kevin450 This video clip is a 911 Turbo S with a PDK, PDK is a different animal. Of what I read PDK does not like slow speeds and low RPM, also (as I understand) it has no T.C. The clip lacks sound so there is no way to say whether the engine revs fluctuate or not, therefore as it satnds it can be just an indication fault of the gauge or the sender. Based on the clip I would not rush into conclusions. Freeman agree just wish when you see the same defect they say if and how it was fixed. I’m doing filter and oil gearbox change tomorrow at Indy it’s due from mileage so needs doing, see what happens then back to local auto gearbox specialist if required, I’m not expecting it to be fixed with oil and filter but it’s a process I must take. Let see how it goes will update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 hours ago, Freeman said: Kevin450 This video clip is a 911 Turbo S with a PDK, PDK is a different animal. Of what I read PDK does not like slow speeds and low RPM, also (as I understand) it has no T.C. The clip lacks sound so there is no way to say whether the engine revs fluctuate or not, therefore as it satnds it can be just an indication fault of the gauge or the sender. Based on the clip I would not rush into conclusions. Dunno the 911 Turbo. On my 987 PDK, you can just about get some snatch on occasion when crawling at walking pace in traffic - just as you could with a manual, clutch fully home. But down to your throttle control. Doubt a turbo is any different since it won't be doing anything just above idle. Of course a torque converter would cushion this. But I never have any problems with it at lows revs otherwise, and love the way it gets into the highest gear possible very quickly when not in a hurry. Just as I'd do with a manual, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Triptronic oil and filter service carried out no bits of metal etc in oil /filter still have the fault not surprised but had to go through the motion it was due in any case I should most probably look at getting valve body checked/rebuild next it’s a process of elimination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 You'll find a full service manual here for the 5HP. A good read might give a clue as to the fault. http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/ZF 5HP24 1 Repair Manual.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 DaveEFI Thanks for the manual, I went through it but it was more of "how is it build" than "I understand how it works". As a result of you posting the link and Kevin450 and my unsuccessful inquiries (i.e. everyone is guessing with no definite answer) I sent an email to ZF asking for their advice. Will let you know what they say when I get an answer. Thank you guys!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thank you DaveEFI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Freeman said: DaveEFI Thanks for the manual, I went through it but it was more of "how is it build" than "I understand how it works". As a result of you posting the link and Kevin450 and my unsuccessful inquiries (i.e. everyone is guessing with no definite answer) I sent an email to ZF asking for their advice. Will let you know what they say when I get an answer. Thank you guys!!! Freeman Interesting to see reply you receive. spoke to gearbox specialist got into reconditioned gear box as just changing torque converter may just not be enough should the triptronic box be overhauled while out. The logic behind this being the labour to remove refit the triptronic gear box been told labour of 12 hours for removal refit does that seem correct and the other jobs whilst you’ve have the trip out the RMS, IMS seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 I'll say again. I really can't see the TC itself being the problem. Sure they can fail in a variety of ways, but an intermittent fault does not seem likely to me. Intermittent faults are most likely associated with the control side. And even more likely the electronic side of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, DaveEFI said: I'll say again. I really can't see the TC itself being the problem. Sure they can fail in a variety of ways, but an intermittent fault does not seem likely to me. Intermittent faults are most likely associated with the control side. And even more likely the electronic side of that. It’s not intermittent it’s there all the time when you cruise with the revs 2000 and below and speed below 50mph with normal gearing and throttle in a steady state position . You can select manual let’s say your going 40mph the revs are fluctuating you select a lower gear to take the rev’s above 2000 no fluctuations at the same speed its never cause the gears to change, the gearbox is great does what it should no jumping clunking etc all Fault code checks are no fault but persons with auto box experience they say torque converter is the problem just tell them the symptoms and they torque converter this is one of those faults that comes down to experience gut feelings I hope we can do more in depth by motioning solenoids volts amps see if they fluctuate in volt amps if steady then torque converter my way of thinking while driving etc. Because you can’t pin it down to an item this where the argument comes down to exchange overhaul the box due to cost and time to remove refit box Catch 22 if not an item trip box back out again the cost of two in outs of box same as an exchange box 🤪 oh joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 Try looking up how a TC works. And guess at what fault could allow it to 'slip' and then not slip as a regular thing, without it self destructing quickly. It's not uncommon to be told to simply fit a re-con anything. Due to the labour costs (and skills needed) of actually diagnosing a fault and fixing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Earlier today I have received the reply from ZF, it is attached below. "the following solution has been found for your request: Hello, Firstly apologies for the delay in responce, the fault you have described is indicative of a torque converter lock-up clutch issue as this is in operation in both 4th and 5th gear. An initial starting point for your diagnosis would be the oil level and condition as this can degrade over time. If this is all in good condition then the next point would be to have the transmssion removed the valve body and torque converter inspected and repaired as required. Hopefully this is of some assistance with your vehicles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Freeman said: Earlier today I have received the reply from ZF, it is attached below. "the following solution has been found for your request: Hello, Firstly apologies for the delay in responce, the fault you have described is indicative of a torque converter lock-up clutch issue as this is in operation in both 4th and 5th gear. An initial starting point for your diagnosis would be the oil level and condition as this can degrade over time. If this is all in good condition then the next point would be to have the transmssion removed the valve body and torque converter inspected and repaired as required. Hopefully this is of some assistance with your vehicles." Pretty well what was said at the start of this thread. Unlikely to be a fault in the clutch itself - more likely in what controls it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Hi Freeman Thanks for further reply yes as you say it’s the torque converter or the valve but all the independent gear box people I’ve asked about 4 auto gearbox specialists via email or face to face all have said most probably torque converter as the are no fault codes. I have just had results for my gearbox oil being tested for glycol contamination which was found to be negative, this was to check no contamination from the cooling system if the glycol was in the oil this could have caused the slippage and would involve a gearbox rebuild to remove contamination just to add a bit of uncertainty I had this response today from a rennlist thread https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=837436&goto=newpost I’ve had PWIS box while showing no faults and I sprayed the engine with engine start spray didn’t find a error with vacuum leak but you never know. Cost of replacing torque converter varies on where you take it Indy cost circa £200.00. 12 hours for removal of triptronic box £1000 for replacement torque converter auto gearbox specialist . As a rough estimate, we can re manufacture your Torque Converter for £399+VAT and to remove and refit the gearbox is 7 hours labour which would be £490+VAT. So for just a Torque Converter replacement is £889+VAT plus any Transmission fluid required for the correct level however we would recommend a gearbox oil and filter change with the repair which I estimate around £200+VAT. So the cost varies a bit, I require the RMS and may be the IMS doing while the triptronic box is out so these are most probably a Indy job from the point of view they have the tools and experience etc so I’m looking at Indy to remove torque converter and get it refurbished Or a unit exchange if possible. I’ve just had filter and oil change so hopefully they said they can save most of the new oil This all may end up on hold with what’s going on in the world stay safe everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted March 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 I will do everything at an Indi as the engine + box mounts need replacing then the IMS should be done if possible (the engine S/N suggests that I have the larger bearing that can't be replaced unless the engine is split) and some other small jobs. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 I'll say again. Don't see how a TC can slip then not at a constant speed. When fully 'locked' at over some 2000 rpm, there is still some slip. Hence the lock-up clutch. If that were to cycle on and off, you'd have your fault. I'm not sure what degree of diagnostics it has - remember it is basically an old unit dating from the early 90s which uses a mixture of hydraulic and electronic control. If you decide to get the TC replaced on the advice of local expert, make sure they guarantee it will fix the problem. If they won't, it means they are just guessing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted March 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 9 hours ago, DaveEFI said: If you decide to get the TC replaced on the advice of local expert, make sure they guarantee it will fix the problem. If they won't, it means they are just guessing too. DaveEFI I guess that you are correct. My plan is to check the ECU and if possible to renew the S/W, check the vacuum tubes, if still there, then depends on cost, either do the TC and valves or repair/replace the whole box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEFI Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 As I said I've not had a 5HP apart. But on the autos I have, it is possible to remove the entire valve assembly with the box still in the car. Which could then be stripped cleaned and checked on the bench. Not sure about the various solenoids, etc, though. Valves are often spring loaded against hydraulic pressure. If one is sticking and not returning to the rest position, it could conceivably cause your fault. The electronic side is more likely to have self diagnostics, but even then may not have feedback to tell if a solenoid is sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted March 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Will have better idea soon. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sa utah Posted March 24, 2020 Report Share Posted March 24, 2020 I can’t believe this isn’t fixed yet. It seems like it’s been 2 years since I started to read about it. mat this rate the car will be valid for tax exemption and no MOTs ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin450 Posted March 24, 2020 Report Share Posted March 24, 2020 I don’t think you understand the car is perfect to drive everyday it is just the revs surge at cruise below 50mph just a anoyance easy to stick in manual to get the revs higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman Posted March 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 7:57 PM, sa utah said: I can’t believe this isn’t fixed yet. It seems like it’s been 2 years since I started to read about it. mat this rate the car will be valid for tax exemption and no MOTs ...... My sincere apologies for that but with this Corona you might read about it for a bit longer. You see, both, my wife and I are key workers, unlike her who can do most of her work from home I have to go out and see people, I have 'lots' of protection, gloves and alcogel, no masks or anything, so am at high risk of catching the bug. I find it a bit hard to live on £92 a week so the 1K - 3K that the repair might cause can be used in a better way when I a lay on my back. My apologies but please bear with me 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sa utah Posted March 27, 2020 Report Share Posted March 27, 2020 Hats of to you on the work front. Thanks for all you guys are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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