ooid Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Driving around 60-65 mph today at motorway, a very loud "bang" noise in the engine and suddenly both ABS and Battery warnings came on. less than a minute, temperature gauge started to raise quickly, cooling fans started quite high and before going too late I managed to park somewhere and wait for a towing. Luckily, the engine did not overheat too much (I hope so!). I thought it was driver belt or one of the basic pulleys but my mechanics just showed me that Power Steering Pump gone!? (See the attached pic). Is this normal? My car is just below 70k and recently serviced, and I do not remember any heavy steering or whining noise before. There has been a CAT heatshield rattle for a while thats it. Been advised to change the whole Power Steering Pump, not only the pulley, which is gonna cost a lot! (Hope this is the only issue so far!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 PAS pump is not a common failure . But if you are so inclined it's a good opportunity to put in an under drive pulley ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Thanks.. We can not run and test engine without getting a new one, so it's quite curious hopefully it's alright. By looking at other parts, including water pump, all looks quite crisp and no sign of other damage or leak including the drive belt which was quite new anyway. Quite worrying to see this part failed at this state though! I do not even drive on hard conditions, mainly on motorways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Looking at the pulley, I cant see how it was responsible for the belt coming off unless the power steering pump has seized. I had a tensioner pulley bearing failed recently, the bearings ground away so the pulley canted over about 20 degrees and threw the belt off. Fortunately I was very close to home so temperature gauge didn't move much: Before it happened, I was convinced my PS pump was making the noise. Anyway, guess I'd want more info why your mechanic thinks it's that pulley, normally it's the idler or tensioner pulleys that fail or even just a belt failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 The pulley has disintegrated from the PAS Pump. We found this pulley on the engine tray, near the water pump. I have just attached a new image showing a new pulley (up) and mine (bottom) comparing the geometry, you can see the middle part and where the holes are completely worn out. I did not have any strange noise from this part of the engine before but I had CAT shields were rattling for a while. I did hear the whining noise just about 10 seconds before the belt of while driving though. I was absolutely lucky as there was no hard shoulder, just at the end of motorway, managed to coast to a parking space in 1-2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Comparing the pulleys, the centre hole looks normal, it's the 3 bolt holes that are enlarged. They look like inserts that have been pressed or welded have come out. Could you find any of the bolts afterwards, is the pump seized? There are loads of second hand power steering pumps on ebay, as Ed says, they aren't an item that fails so I'd get one of those. Our water pumps don't give much warning when they fail, a bit of leaking and grinding and the bearings are gone. I replaced mine 2 months ago, was 7 years old and looked and felt in good condition but they are considered service items which is why I swapped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 All the bolts are in place on power steering pump, basically this pulley just came out or broken from enlarged circular holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 That's impossible, I bet if you undo the bolts, you will find the inserts I'm talking about underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 You may find three "washers" under the bolts as it does look like some sort of pressed insert has come out, rather than them being "worn". Looks like a sudden part failure to me. Unlucky. Does it have a Porsche part number, ie OEM, or an aftermarket item, possibly not the best quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 I can't imagine what load could have caused this, green arrows shows the power steering pump so there would be nothing pulling against the inserts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 The part was OEM/original. You can see the number on it, P# 99614722360 I have attached a new picture location below, sorry about resolution as the garage was a bit dark. I have recently made loads of changes, new oil cooler, water pump, low temp thermostat, head gaskets and etc..so everything with the new parts are working good condition, we somehow did not think of changing this as the part did not give any indication of getting bad. I still think it is a serious issue from the manufacturer point, this part should not go bad at this early and the current use (click the link below for the picture) Power Steering Pump Failure Location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Assuming this is just a unfortunate pulley failure, you could try fitting a new one. As there was no warning noises or lack of power steering before the pulley failed there's no reason to suspect a pump failure. Check the bolts undo just in case there is heat damage plus you will need a new belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 We have ordered a new OEM pump now, will be comparing both of them. Since most of the parts almost brand new now, I do not want to risk the car by using second pump or just changing the pulley to be honest. I do use another car, brand new VW Turbo, 2015. In terms of both steering and clutch, I can not say 986 was quite stiff or hard even though there is a big difference between two cars. The engine heat did not go until the red area but when I stopped the car, the fans were already running high. I really hope this did not cause any other issue for future. Is there a practical way to see if the engine over-heated? We have inspected most of the crucial parts so far there is no leak or evidence so far. My oil level was full again, coolant tank was also full but it might have lost 1/4 cup probably while the fans are running high as I have seen a bit of pink drops on the expansion valve area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickLS7 Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Up to you, seems OTT to me as the pumps are bullet proof. I thought the pulleys were until you posted this but then one pulley failure could just be a manufacturing error. The trouble with running the car without the water pump running is hottest water around the liners and heads is not being pumped away to the radiators and will cause localised over-heating. Sounds like it wasn't that long in your case so sure there will be no problems, it's those people that drive for ages that blow their head gaskets and seize their engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxbrownie Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 The pulley would only have to be a few thou off true for minute vibration to be working it's magic on the inserts, it could have been running out since new and never been noticed until sudden failure. Part of my job used to be filming (high speed strobe) vibration tests on vehicles/components and it is frightening some of the movement caught on camera that never gets noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 10 hours ago, Boxbrownie said: The pulley would only have to be a few thou off true for minute vibration to be working it's magic on the inserts, it could have been running out since new and never been noticed until sudden failure. Part of my job used to be filming (high speed strobe) vibration tests on vehicles/components and it is frightening some of the movement caught on camera that never gets noticed. Thank you! So you mean this is a "failed" or defunctioning part from the beginning? I'm still absolutely suprised about the quality of it or my bad luck! Here is a design trick; What Porsche could actually do, the back heatshield and front engine parts could be transparent or translucent, so we get to see or observe at least how the parts functioning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 O.K. here we go again... The Power steering pump has been replaced but the car has a mis-fire now? The battery was drained so it needed re-charge before we start. We think it's O2 sensors or battery? Any other idea what might cause this? I do not remember having a mis-fire before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex24v Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Might be worth checking the coil-packs, they are quite sensitive to temperature damage, and you mentioned earlier about the overheating (due to water pump not pumping) if they got damaged, that could lead to misfiring. You didn't mention if the CEL had come on, (so I assume not) O2 sensor problem would trigger that normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxbrownie Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 16 hours ago, ooid said: Thank you! So you mean this is a "failed" or defunctioning part from the beginning? I'm still absolutely suprised about the quality of it or my bad luck! Here is a design trick; What Porsche could actually do, the back heatshield and front engine parts could be transparent or translucent, so we get to see or observe at least how the parts functioning Well it only needed to have been wrongly seated when the inserts were pressed in, that could easily have "bent" (used that word cautiously) enough for a small alignment issue to manifest itself after weeks/months/years of running, very difficult to prove once the thing has let go! And you would be surprised what we made in transparent material or cut tunnels get a decent view of components on test on rigs or vehicles, clear plastic fuel tank anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Tex24v said: Might be worth checking the coil-packs, they are quite sensitive to temperature damage, and you mentioned earlier about the overheating (due to water pump not pumping) if they got damaged, that could lead to misfiring. You didn't mention if the CEL had come on, (so I assume not) O2 sensor problem would trigger that normally. Thanks. I did have a little drive and mis-fire is almost unrecognizeble for me at least. There is no CEL issue or no warning light. Quite slight drop on low revs. Considering this could be my 17 years old CATS and o2 sensors.(rattle still there). I've bought new CATS and sensors a few weeks ago on a discount and was waiting to replace them anyway so we are going ahead with this. no issue with the Alternator or water pump so far, so hopefully this was a close one! To be honest, car is running much quiter now probably I was used to the previous state as I was putting some miles on the car recently. I will post the picture of the failed Power steering pump later today.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted July 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Much better resolution pictures below for the failed pump; Picture 1 Picture 2 Picture 3 Picture 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolfgjp Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Your misfire may still be your o2 sensors on the way out, even with out the cel. Mine was running slightly ruff for about 3weeks before the light came on. Lucky you got some at a discounted price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the baron Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 I had mine go at around 160,000 miles, quite unnerving but not a hard fix, make sure you have a good look around all the other bits while in there, its all linked on one belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Picked the car today. In addition to Power steering pump, my new radiators, cooling fans and brand new CATS+O2 sensors installed and a spark plugs as part of the mini service. Knocking the wood, The car is absolutely fantastic! No noise at all, I'm pretty suprised actually it even runs quieter than my VW Turbo Did about 10-15 miles in London, evening rush traffic, the heating gauge did not go over 80 at all. I think the fans were working on stage 1 only, have not heard any stage 2 noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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