GTSMarky Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 The P Zeros on my GTS are hard and horrible, despite having nearly full tread depth still. I wanted to fit Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's but alas there's not a 235 front available. So where do I go from here and who uses what on track? Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Neither really suited to track days TBH. How about some Toyo R888R? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSMarky Posted December 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, spyderman8 said: Neither really suited to track days TBH. How about some Toyo R888R? I was just looking at Toyos - I can only see 19" availability and I have 20" rims.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 We race on the 18s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 The new version is actually cheaper than the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temporarychicken Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Trackday tyres for 20 inch wheels are a non-starter, both in terms of availability and cost! As said, start with 18s and use affordable rubber like Nangkang NS2R. You can get michelin pilot sport cup 2 in the larger wheel sizes (19/20), but these are phenomenally expensive. I don't use these for track any more for this reason. Also, consider a wheel alignment to get more negative camber if possible. I've seen 981s destroy the outside edge of the front tyres to the point of delamination with the factory road geo. setup. Spending money on 18 wheels and track tyres + alignment will be cheaper overall, then just keep your 20s for looking nice on the road. The break-even point is probably 4 track-days a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 There is also Nankang AR-1 or Federal 595RSR if you want good value trackday/dry based rubber. Yoko AD08R also good but in the next price bracket up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temporarychicken Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 That's true Ed, I have Yoko AD08R on my M3 and they are indeed in the next price bracket up indeed! They are nice though and generally more durable than the Michelin Sport Cups. Trackdays are measured in fun more than laptimes (unlike pure racing), so economical tyre choice is a vital factor! The more economical your rubber and brake solutions for track are, the more trackdays you can afford to do per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 22 hours ago, GTSMarky said: I was just looking at Toyos - I can only see 19" availability and I have 20" rims.. Sorry - as usual I didn't read your post properly before replying! Try Michelin Pilot Sport 4S which are now available in 20" with an N0 rating. The PS4S uses the same compound as the Supersport and is "approved" by Michelin for track use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason986S Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I got a full set of part worn 18” Dunlop slicks if you fancy something hard core? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSMarky Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thanks for the replies folks. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4’s are my preferred choice. I can’t be faffed changing wheels although I can see that being the way to go if I get more into car track days but I’d change the car more likely. I ride a dozen or so bike track days a year and will probably manage 4/5 of the Porsche Club days at best so a sticky do it all tyre on my 20” rims are what’s needed ideally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzfox Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 On 21/12/2017 at 2:33 PM, temporarychicken said: Also, consider a wheel alignment to get more negative camber if possible. I've seen 981s destroy the outside edge of the front tyres to the point of delamination with the factory road geo. setup. Would you be referring to this set of freshly 'Bedford Autodromed' tyres by any chance?!! Untitled by , on Flickr Untitled by , on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temporarychicken Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 This may well have been the incident to which I was referring earlier!!!!!! I guess we can laugh now, but it’s brutal when it happens... I would hate to see the OP part company with 1k for four lovely Michelin pilots and then have this happen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSMarky Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Crikey - that’s not good. To me it looks like the front’s been under steering - will a geometry re-set cure this or is it linked to the Michelin’s too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temporarychicken Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 This can happen to pretty much any road tyres with the Boxster's factory Geo setup. The factory geo is biased to even tyre wear and longevity on the road. The exact opposite of which happens on track! On the Boxster, I've got -2.5 negative camber on the back, and about -2.0 on the front. This wears perfectly on the track, even with road tyres. Proper track tyres don't need as much camber to cope with track use as they have stronger sidewalls and don't overheat on the outside corners as much. The Michelin Pilot range (right up to the Sport Cup 2, which is the latest 'track-focused' tyre) still share the basic road-going pilot structure and will still chew the outsides without added negative camber. Their fantastic reputation for grip is true, however, they are a Pilot and without extra camber you will burn the outside edges, no problem. I managed to do similar damage in the above picture to a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + on an M3 without any real negative camber. Ouch. Had I managed to get 2 degrees negative I would have had a nice wear pattern after the day. The 981 is extremely simple to add negative camber on the front to. You just need to push in towards the centre both strut top mounts as far as possible, then get the front tracking done afterwards. It's that simple and will save your road-going tyres from serious carnage. If you don't do that many miles per year off the track, then you won't need to have this re-set afterwards, you can just leave it on all the time (I do!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTSMarky Posted December 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 On 24/12/2017 at 8:11 PM, temporarychicken said: This can happen to pretty much any road tyres with the Boxster's factory Geo setup. The factory geo is biased to even tyre wear and longevity on the road. The exact opposite of which happens on track! On the Boxster, I've got -2.5 negative camber on the back, and about -2.0 on the front. This wears perfectly on the track, even with road tyres. Proper track tyres don't need as much camber to cope with track use as they have stronger sidewalls and don't overheat on the outside corners as much. The Michelin Pilot range (right up to the Sport Cup 2, which is the latest 'track-focused' tyre) still share the basic road-going pilot structure and will still chew the outsides without added negative camber. Their fantastic reputation for grip is true, however, they are a Pilot and without extra camber you will burn the outside edges, no problem. I managed to do similar damage in the above picture to a Michelin Pilot Sport Cup + on an M3 without any real negative camber. Ouch. Had I managed to get 2 degrees negative I would have had a nice wear pattern after the day. The 981 is extremely simple to add negative camber on the front to. You just need to push in towards the centre both strut top mounts as far as possible, then get the front tracking done afterwards. It's that simple and will save your road-going tyres from serious carnage. If you don't do that many miles per year off the track, then you won't need to have this re-set afterwards, you can just leave it on all the time (I do!) This is good to know - thank you and I will be sure to check my geometry when new tyres are fitted. What would be the feeling of this set up on the road? Would the car ‘white line’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temporarychicken Posted December 28, 2017 Report Share Posted December 28, 2017 Even with 2 degrees negative camber I don’t get any negative behaviour on the road and the the car tracks and steers nicely in a straight line. This is with as much negative camber as the front top mount adjustment allows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimk04 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Consider going up to a GT3 sized front tyre....245 maybe. Might open up choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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