Improve the handling of the 981 - X73

[daz05]

9 minutes ago, GTSMarky said:

This all just confirms that I need a 4.0 GT4!

GT3 is where it's at imho

[GTSMarky]

54 minutes ago, daz05 said:

GT3 is where it's at imho

The 911 is a different prospect altogether.  Much larger physically and I’d like to keep the convertible.  The 911 convertible really doesn’t look right to me either. 

I’ve a 1965 TR4a that could give me the soft top motoring and perhaps go Cayman.  September 18 I very very nearly bought a 981 GT4 and kind of regret not doing it until that is we jump in the BGTS and head to Devon for a few days in the sunshine. 

if I want to go fast I hop on my Aprilia RSV4RF which scares the life out of me!

Edited July 23, 2020 by GTSMarky

[GTSMarky]

1 hour ago, GTSMarky said:

This all just confirms that I need a 4.0 GT4!

Lol. I meant GTS.  

[daz05]

@GTSMarky think we are on the same page as much as I like the GT4 I can't see me ever choosing one over the Spyder for the reasons you mention. I feel to justify the big wing on the back it shouldn't have been pegged back in the way it has with the gearing.

 

4.0l GTS does seem like a sweet spot all except the DPF. One of the guys did a drive past in a new gt4 before we left and the noise was pretty disappointing would go as far to say that the 3.4 was more interesting and that shouldn't be the case.

[Buzzfox]

12 minutes ago, daz05 said:

4.0l GTS does seem like a sweet spot all except the DPF. One of the guys did a drive past in a new gt4 before we left and the noise was pretty disappointing would go as far to say that the 3.4 was more interesting and that shouldn't be the case.

OK, time for Buzzfox's next stupid question - what is the DPF? I only know that as a diesel particulate filter but that's obviously not the case here.  

[Ringer250]

8 hours ago, Buzzfox said:

OK, time for Buzzfox's next stupid question - what is the DPF? I only know that as a diesel particulate filter but that's obviously not the case here.  

Probably a typo - means GPF?

[daz05]

1 hour ago, Ringer250 said:

Probably a typo - means GPF?

Yes exactly what I meant. 👍

[zagamuffin]

There is a diesel GTS coming tho ....

[map]

23 hours ago, daz05 said:

I find the PS4S ride a bit better than the P zeros they are definitely softer.

Does this mean you are saying that the PS4S gives you a better ride than the PZero because the PS4S is “softer” than the Pirelli?

If so I’m not sure this is necessarily the case.  Stiffer tyre sidewalls allow the suspension to work properly.  It maybe that the PS4S is not the “softer” tyre in this sense. 

[daz05]

7 hours ago, map said:

Does this mean you are saying that the PS4S gives you a better ride than the PZero because the PS4S is “softer” than the Pirelli?

If so I’m not sure this is necessarily the case.  Stiffer tyre sidewalls allow the suspension to work properly.  It maybe that the PS4S is not the “softer” tyre in this sense. 

All I can tell you is that they provide a softer ride and they feel more squidgy (is that a term) when I drive than the p zeros. I think that is because the sidewall is softer.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by daz05

[GTSMarky]

On 7/23/2020 at 10:40 PM, daz05 said:

@GTSMarky think we are on the same page as much as I like the GT4 I can't see me ever choosing one over the Spyder for the reasons you mention. I feel to justify the big wing on the back it shouldn't have been pegged back in the way it has with the gearing.

 

4.0l GTS does seem like a sweet spot all except the DPF. One of the guys did a drive past in a new gt4 before we left and the noise was pretty disappointing would go as far to say that the 3.4 was more interesting and that shouldn't be the case.

As and when the PDK GTS 4.0 is around for a demo I'll give it a go.  I think that could be my next Porsche... 

[GTSMarky]

19 hours ago, map said:

Does this mean you are saying that the PS4S gives you a better ride than the PZero because the PS4S is “softer” than the Pirelli?

If so I’m not sure this is necessarily the case.  Stiffer tyre sidewalls allow the suspension to work properly.  It maybe that the PS4S is not the “softer” tyre in this sense. 

The difference in grip and feel (so sidewall compliance I'd include in that) just between the P Zero N0 & N1 was significant.  I'm sure another manufacturer's tyre is even more noticeable.

[map]

12 hours ago, daz05 said:

All I can tell you is that they provide a softer ride and they feel more squidgy (is that a term) when I drive than the p zeros. I think that is because the sidewall is softer.

To be clear to everyone I am not questioning that there is a difference in ride quality between the tyres and am certainly not doubting anyone's ability to detect and drive to this delta.

The element I'm raising is this:  

What feels like a softer ride may not be because the tyre's side wall is less stiff but might in fact be because it is 'more stiff' which allows the suspension to work properly.  

With my own tweaked 986 (custom KW motorsport coilovers), the road ride is noticeably more compliant on Toyo R888R compared to PS2 using same damping rates - the R888R has obviously stiffer side walls.  On either tyre the car has a comfortable* but controlled ride.

So in this use case stiffer side walls provide a softer - although far from squidgy - ride.

Why don't I use R888R instead of the PS2?  

Simple: The R888R has a wet handling rating of "E" and when the PS2 is a "B" there's no question of using the Toyo on a near daily driver.

*comfortable which surprises most people given the car's setup ...

44 minutes ago, GTSMarky said:

The difference in grip and feel (so sidewall compliance I'd include in that) just between the P Zero N0 & N1 was significant.  I'm sure another manufacturer's tyre is even more noticeable.

Of course, we agree - I wasn't suggesting otherwise merely raising the point covered immediately above which is that a softer ride may not be due to softer side walls.

Edited July 25, 2020 by map
typo

[daz05]

@map I've read this point before so understand where you are coming from 👍. My S2000 demanded stiff sidewalls to work properly. 

I wasn't sure on the PS4s at first on the 981, the squidgy feeling at turn in put me off but I've been able to eradicate it by raising the pressure ever so slightly, I guess that's my simple rationale for believing the walls are softer than the N0 Pzeros but it could be as you say. I would say I still prefer the feeling of the pzero at turn in but prefer the grip, consistency and ride of the Michelin product.

On my Golf R the difference Vs the OEM Bridgestones was night and day I was ready to ditch the 19" wheels but the PS4s made the ride quality acceptable. I was amazed!

[zagamuffin]

Daz

 

funny you mention squidgy as I’ve just went from n1 Pzeros to GY no’s rears and I thought the rear of the car was broken the difference was so pronounced,havnt pushed it hard yet but after the 200 run in I’ll get a chance soon, up to now I think the bald/hard pzeros are more confidence inspiring lol

 

 

[daz05]

3 hours ago, zagamuffin said:

Daz

 

funny you mention squidgy as I’ve just went from n1 Pzeros to GY no’s rears and I thought the rear of the car was broken the difference was so pronounced,havnt pushed it hard yet but after the 200 run in I’ll get a chance soon, up to now I think the bald/hard pzeros are more confidence inspiring lol

 

 

Sometimes new tyres can feel awful for up to 1000 miles. Recommend you add pressure to the rear and it will feel better just 1-2 psi over recommended when cold. The GYs even softer I understand so that will make it feel more normal.

Let me know if it works.

[Rooose]

I am nearly 500 miles into my new goodyears and would agree, when first fitted, I thought something was broken, the car was much more complaint but felt almost dangerously wallowey.

Now they are scrubbed in, I love them, really comfortable, confidence inspiring and plenty of grip for my driving.

 

[zagamuffin]

Checked the fitted pressures and front and back had been set at 33/39 , bit high lol

 

[GTSMarky]

18 hours ago, zagamuffin said:

Checked the fitted pressures and front and back had been set at 33/39 , bit high lol

 

Christ... 39psi 

[GTSMarky]

Did you check with a manual gauge or was that on the Porsche system?

[zagamuffin]

Manual digital gauge with cold tyres

[GTSMarky]

14 hours ago, zagamuffin said:

Manual digital gauge with cold tyres

Good.  No chance of a dodgy sensor giving spurious readings then.

[CliveH]

On 7/15/2020 at 4:02 PM, Lennym1984 said:

I thought the Spyder had the same rear ARB as an S? I was under the impression that only the Cayman R had a different one

I hope I'm not taking this too far off topic as it's about the 981, but does anyone know if the 987 Spyder has a different ARB setup to the S, and how the Cayman R differs?

[MH82]

32 minutes ago, CliveH said:

I hope I'm not taking this too far off topic as it's about the 981, but does anyone know if the 987 Spyder has a different ARB setup to the S, and how the Cayman R differs?

The Spyder had a thicker front than the S, believe the rear was the same. They mentioned this to me when I did the suspension upgrade on my old car. Don’t know about the R, but apart from the slightly higher horsepower (which mainly came from the exhaust I think) I believe the R and Spyder were the same underneath (from a suspension set up perspective at the very least)

[CliveH]

Thank you, that's helpful. Did you also fit the thicker front ARB when you did the suspension?

I have the Spyder springs and shockers on my 987.2 S which feels great, but when I drove a 987 Spyder recently it did feel a little "tighter" than mine.

As for the extra 10bhp of the Cayman R over the Spyder, I believe that Porsche do attribute this to the larger diameter pipe (55mm) between the manifold and the exhaust housing.