PDK Manual change 2013 s

[alank]

Hi,   When i use the paddles for changing i notice that their is a very slight delay from pulling the lever ,to the PDK changing gear when going up the gears, driving sedately.   It seems to be virtually instant when i am giving it some beans.      Is the speed of change dependent on engine revs/ harder acceleration.    It changes down through the gears instantly . I cant remember if it has been like this since getting the car, its just something i thought about whilst driving to work today.      Cheers for any advice.  Alan

[rowbos]

PDK learns your driving style, take it easy, slower smoother changes, drive it like you stole it and you will get faster changes.

Sports Mode and Sport + will pep up your changes manual or automatic...

[paulchamby]

Can you get the PDK remapped?

[Broxie]

7 minutes ago, paulchamby said:

Can you get the PDK remapped?

Yes, by pressing the Sport or Sport Plus buttons 😄

[rowbos]

18 minutes ago, Broxie said:

Yes, by pressing the Sport or Sport Plus buttons 😄

And consistently driving like a maniac to retrain the gearbox  

I recommend using Launch Control at every set of traffic lights too 

[Greenman]

4 hours ago, rowbos said:

PDK learns your driving style, take it easy, slower smoother changes, drive it like you stole it and you will get faster changes.

Sports Mode and Sport + will pep up your changes manual or automatic...

Exactly this.   Why would you want quick/jerky gear changes when you are just tootling about.  There are a number of different maps that it changes between depending on driving style, these affect when the gear changes happen (in auto mode) and how severe the change.  I find generally in normal mode when driving slowly the changes can be quite sedate. 

[moospeed]

This is my first automatic (excluding the Vespa) sportscar after decades of manuals. 

I've also noticed the delay when going up the gears, even in sports mode, sports+ seems fine.  I wonder why it does this as the downchanges are relatively instantaneous even with the auto-blip but there doesn't seem to be any point to the delay on upchanges.

I must admit it's had me questioning whether I should've bought a manual (along with the kickdown even in manual mode) but I was keen to try a paddle shift.

So far I'm very happy with my choice, these are the only two 'niggles' and they are minor ones TBH.

 

[lofi]

I don’t think you’ll fine anything faster tbh this side of a much more expensive machine. In my view it is pretty instant and if you’re thinking you should go manual because you want more speedy shifts I think you need a rethink

[CMA]

Try sports+ in manual and change up when your almost at the redline at full throttle, don't think you'll find anything quicker. As for buying a manual, that gear change would be even slower so wouldn't achieve your aim of a fast change? Buying a manual is normally done for more driver involvement, not fast gear changes

[Greenman]

8 hours ago, moospeed said:

I've also noticed the delay when going up the gears, even in sports mode, sports+ seems fine.

The gearbox is still adaptive even In Sport mode. If you are in sport mode yet still just tootling then maybe there could be some delay.  It does take a bit of time to learn how the gearbox reacts so that you intuitively know what the gearbox will do and how to fully exploit its strengths.  I’ve got to admit that when I’m in sport mode I am usually driving in a spirited manner, in which case I find the gear changes pretty swift. Sport+ gear changes are even swifter with little compromise for smoothness.  (Remember these modes also affect traction control/throttle response etc)

[moospeed]

Perhaps my point was missed, apologies.  I'm not after speedier shifts, merely thinking the paddle action could be acted on immediately.  There's no delay on when the box decides to make the up-change, but it's a clear and consistent delay between pulling the paddle and the change being initiated.

And as has been mentioned, in Sports+ it's instant so I know it's merely a software thing.  I just don't understand why they would have this split-second delay built in on the other modes, it can't be anything to do with smoothness as the rev-matching is obviously perfect.  The Sports+ "clunk" is also a built in part of the software, more for emotive effect I'd imagine.

Since posting above I've had another blat out and there could be something in Greenman's note that driving in a spirited manner makes the difference. I didn't particularly note the delay at the weekend, or maybe I'm just getting used to it.

I first noticed this on another PDK car I test drove before the one I bought, it was the first PDK I'd ever experienced so I know it's "normal".  Just don't understand the reason why.

[CMA]

There are a lot of software changes between the normal, sports and sports+ modes, speed of changes is one of the parameters that changes depending on mode. Sports+ is brutal it also stiffens up the dynamic transmission mounts in Sports+ which probably gives more of a clunk effect too. In Auto the maps for gear changes all change too holding onto gears until the redline in Sports+ This is also modified by inputs from other sensors that detect if your driving miss daisy or pushing on. 

Having come from a manual 981 to a PDK 981 it did take a while to get my head around how clever it is and learn to use it.

[moospeed]

28 minutes ago, CMA said:

...Sports+ is brutal it also stiffens up the dynamic transmission mounts in Sports+ which probably gives more of a clunk effect too...

Good point, I'd forgotten about that, scary having another expensive bit that can go wrong

I'm still in the mode of playing around with the settings trying them out.  For country lanes I had been defaulting to Sports+, switch PASM back to soft and gear level to manual.  Now I'm quite keen on the normal Sports mode, and the brief time I had it in Auto I was actually impressed with the gear choices but still sticking with manual generally.  Auto on Sports+ definitely seems geared towards track use for people who really hate changing gears themselves.

Other than that haven't really used Auto apart from cruising, on a motorway slog or just on the initial 10-15 mins warm up.

[CMA]

50 minutes ago, moospeed said:

Good point, I'd forgotten about that, scary having another expensive bit that can go wrong

 

Everything seems to be expensive when it comes to a Porsche

Sports+ and auto is full on red line every gear. One for the track.

Sports in Auto is good too if you just trust it to do it's thing (takes a while) especially on the down changes under heavy braking. I did a couple of days at Porsche experience Centre and the instructors said it take a very good driver to drive faster in manual than in the auto mode. manual is more engaging though.

In auto if you're about to overtake and know its coming you can press the throttle and then ease off, it then drops down a couple of cogs depending on how hard you have pressed the pedal so you're ready to do the overtake, leave it too long and it drops back up the box. saves flicking the paddles. Do yo know if you pull both paddles it put you into neutral, then pull one and it drops you back into gear? Handy for the revs in a tunnel

Also slip angle is increased as you go up from normal to sports to sports plus so you get less traction control but not totally off. So complex the software and sensors on these cars. I don't have the PASM to play with, never saw the need for it and was out of my budget at the time.

[Greenman]

6 hours ago, moospeed said:

Perhaps my point was missed, apologies.  I'm not after speedier shifts, merely thinking the paddle action could be acted on immediately.

Ok see what you mean.  I can’t say this is something I’ve noticed, I will try to take note next time I’m out.  
 

I have heard a couple of people complain that the paddles require pulling most of the way before the change is triggered, it’s not this you are experiencing is it? (Again this particular complaint isn’t one that I’ve found in any way unnatural).  If you change with the gear lever is there any differance?.  What year is your car?

[moospeed]

On 10/29/2020 at 1:42 PM, CMA said:

Everything seems to be expensive when it comes to a Porsche

Sports+ and auto is full on red line every gear. One for the track.

Sports in Auto is good too if you just trust it to do it's thing (takes a while) especially on the down changes under heavy braking. I did a couple of days at Porsche experience Centre and the instructors said it take a very good driver to drive faster in manual than in the auto mode. manual is more engaging though.

In auto if you're about to overtake and know its coming you can press the throttle and then ease off, it then drops down a couple of cogs depending on how hard you have pressed the pedal so you're ready to do the overtake, leave it too long and it drops back up the box. saves flicking the paddles. Do yo know if you pull both paddles it put you into neutral, then pull one and it drops you back into gear? Handy for the revs in a tunnel

Also slip angle is increased as you go up from normal to sports to sports plus so you get less traction control but not totally off. So complex the software and sensors on these cars. I don't have the PASM to play with, never saw the need for it and was out of my budget at the time.

Yeah, it was one of those things where I've been reading bits of the manual and saw about engaging neutral - had to go an try it out immediately

I like the PASM but haven't experienced one without to be fair.  The comfort is great even on 20's and it may be my imagination but feels like it's stiffening up the outside edge when cornering harder.  There's one particular bit of local road where it rides over a set of little ridges in the road on a corner very well - it's horrendous in the wife's Qashqai at any speed.

All the toys were on the car when I bought it but I'd say my "must-have" list has now been reduced to just the leather dash, sports design wheel and PSE!!  I reckon I'd be fine without any of the others though of course if the original buyer splashed out on those they're likely to have ticked some other boxes.

[Greenman]

17 hours ago, moospeed said:

All the toys were on the car when I bought it but I'd say my "must-have" list has now been reduced to just the leather dash, sports design wheel and PSE!!  I reckon I'd be fine without any of the others though of course if the original buyer splashed out on those they're likely to have ticked some other boxes.

As a first time buyer it’s near impossible to figure out what selection of options are must haves.  I have a highly specced S but there are still a number of things it doesn’t have.  Having owned for about 5 years here are some thoughts.

Things i haven’t got and don’t miss:

- extended leather (can never understand the obsession with extended leather in a sports car)

- PDLS ( I find the lights on the S fine, but I don’t drive much at night)

 

Things I didn’t have but would now not buy without: 

- PSE ( as a daily driver I thought I might find it annoying, but adds so much to the spirited drive Experiance that I had in installed)

 

Things I wasn’t bothered about, but  do have and now appreciate:

- Folding mirrors, (I frequently pass down a very narrow alley,  don’t know if I would without these)

- PASM (It’s brilliant, ride comfort for kind of car is amazing)

- auto dimming mirrors etc

- SatNav ( I use it a lot, but I don’t have a smartphone so....)

- Painted hoops ( looks so much better IMO)

- PDK (was a bit apprehensive, but for what it is it’s brilliant,  I might buy a manual again but would certainly buy a PDK again)
 

Things I have but could live without.

- Dual Climate 

- heated seats  (Essential for many, I never use them)

- Sport Chrono

Things I thought I wanted, I have, and would be must haves again:

- Sport Design Wheel , with paddles (This is one of the best looking wheels I’ve ever seen, a perfect merging of retro and modern, makes a huge difference to the interior look)

- Bose (Daily driver, I use it a lot)

- 20” wheels (look fab and the ride is brilliant, if I didn’t have PASM maybe would go for 19”?)

- DAB (use it lots)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RickLS7]

I disagree about the extended leather, so much nicer than looking at plastic and makes the cabin such a nice place to be.  I'm divided on PSE, it sounds great when you're pressing on in sport or sport+ but it's definitely louder than non PSE when switched off and I find long motorway trips a bit of a chore.

Options I would have again:

Extended leather

PDK with Sports steering wheel

20" wheels & PASM

BOSE & bluetooth

3.4L engine

Heated seats

Auto dimming mirrors

 

Things I could live without:

PSE

Sports chrono

 

I don't have dual climate but the 'manual' one works well, is more intelligent than it sounds and if you don't keep fiddling, it holds the temperature well.  Everyone comments on how stunning it is in platinum silver with a red roof.  I wasn't sure about the roof but glad about the red now.  I'm also impressed with the sports seats, they hold you well and comfortable on long trips.  I have the standard S bi-xenon headlights and find them more than sufficient but then it's a summer car so rarely use them.

[moospeed]

On 10/29/2020 at 5:37 PM, Greenman said:

Ok see what you mean.  I can’t say this is something I’ve noticed, I will try to take note next time I’m out.  
 

I have heard a couple of people complain that the paddles require pulling most of the way before the change is triggered, it’s not this you are experiencing is it? (Again this particular complaint isn’t one that I’ve found in any way unnatural).  If you change with the gear lever is there any differance?.  What year is your car?

A good suggestion on trying with the lever rather than paddles, thought I'd give it a try before commenting rather than relying on memory.  As it happens this "small delay" is the same with paddles or lever.  Being just connected to switches I imagined it would be.  It's a 2013, but so was the other one I tried and was my first PDK experience and also when I noticed it.

I also tried it with a bit of "pressing on" as per @CMAbut it didn't seem to make much difference.  Doesn't bother me that much I guess, I still had fun testing out yesterday, just one of those oddities that I can't see the point in when it can obviously manage an instant seamless upshift but doesn't for some reason.

Still an impressive setup regardless

[alank]

Ref my original posting, i think i am noticing that the changes are quick once the car is up to temp, not sure if this could be a factor, think its been referenced somewhere on here

[Greenman]

23 minutes ago, alank said:

Ref my original posting, i think i am noticing that the changes are quick once the car is up to temp, not sure if this could be a factor, think its been referenced somewhere on here

I certainly find the PDK a bit clunky when cold, the first 1/2 mile in particular is often not the smoothest.  I don’t tend to Rev hard until up to temp anyway so I’m probably often in auto mode for the first few miles, then changing to Sport and Manual is often aligned, so I wouldn’t really notice any delays prior to warm up as that’s not how I drive.   
 

I've yet to really make a point of testing this since this thread started, and with the lockdown I’m not sure when I’m likely to be out for a blast, but as and when I will report my thoughts back here.

[Madlil]

I find my PDK changes more quickly with aggressive use of the accelerator rather than where it is in the rev range in Sport mode. So with foot planted further down, it tends to shift up more quickly - I am certain this is part of the programming. It's the best dual clutch or auto I have used after several VAG DSGs and more recently a BMW 8 speed ZF (which is also a fine box).

[moospeed]

Just to come back to this, and sorry for any thread hijack @alank but your OP did sound very familiar to what I'd noticed.

Since I lasted mentioned about that, yes, it may just be that it changes up quicker when the computer realises you're "on a mission" I've also tried something else.

I tried the procedure which apparently "resets" the PDK, sounds a load of balls to me what with leaving aircon off and then on for 3 mins at a time, switch off the car and do a merry dance - but it actually did seem to make a bit of a difference 🤔 

I can still feel the built-in delay between the paddle pull and the actuation but it does seem to be less than before.  Maybe I'm just getting more used to it...  I've also noticed it on a youtube video from Daz, it's at the start and could be just the sound is a fraction out of sync but it is the effect I'm trying to describe.