DaveyP Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) Now, I'm sure this has been done to death, but I'm finding conflicting information. Basically, I want to replace all the brake lines on my 2000 S. I have done this before, but it was on a 1980 Dolomite, so not quite the same thing... I assume everything on my motor is metric, so do I need a DIN flare? And therefor DIN unions? Having read up on it a wee bit, I reckon I'll be using cunifer pipe, brass unions, braided hoses. Does anyone have recommendations of brands to go for/avoid? Looks like I'll be making the two crossover pipes in two bits each and joining them. I fully expect some of the plastic clips to break, but don't want to just order them all ahead of time. Are there any that will definitely break? My flaring tool has long since disappeared (that Dolly wasn't yesterday) so I'll be buying a new one of them too. Again, what do folk recommend? Plan is to get all the lines done just now, and have the calipers refurbed some time soon when funds allow... might go black... Oh, and I see there's a GT3 master cylinder upgrade... worth it? Thanks in advance! Edited December 7, 2023 by DaveyP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 Connector info in this thread details of brake line lengths on page 8 of my running report I think it is a din flare, I just bought a cheap kit off eBay, the flare was fine, but the pipe bender was useless and I just used my fingers on the cunifer. I don’t remember the plastic clips breaking, but I think I was very careful when removing the old brake pipes and used lots of Plus Gas. There is a 1 to 2 junction half way down the passenger side which I reused after a bit of a clean up. You can feed the pipe over the engine from one wheelarch and then down to the other wheel arch and then fix in place. Front is tricky and my pipe didn’t follow the original routing entirely faithfully. I’ve not done the GT3 master cylinder upgrade, but those who have seem to rate the improvement in pedal feel. good luck, hope you’ve got a warm garage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 What is the main reason for the master cylinder upgrade? Is it really worth it? Just like to know while I have everything apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 Just done the rear brake pipe over the gearbox today. I had the bottom aluminium brace off as I was replacing the cats. I cut the old pipe in half just above the N/S wheel as it starts to go up over the gearbox. The two halves came out quite easily and I made the new one in two halves. this is the trickiest pipe to do but not half as bad as I thought it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 I did all the lines on my car this summer with cunifer. I bought a fairly cheap flaring tool, pipe cutter and flare nuts kit on eBay for a bout £85 but I did find I needed an extra coil of cunifer, the one in the kit was not quite enough. It did include a bending tool but it was useless for the 986. If you do make the short caliper to flexi pipes lines your self, you will need lots more fittings Yes, I put a joint in both the front and rear cross over pies for convenience. I actually found the front one to be harder getting the almost switch back bends in to the front right where it goes around the chassis member out to the wheel arch. A number of clips will break, I over came most by using two cable ties to retain the new pipe, others I figured there was enough support. All the flare nuts except one in the main system are DIN M10 x 1, there is one M12 x 1. Given how short and fiddly they were and that the spring clips on mine were very rust I bought 4 new caliper to flexi lines from Porsche which are about £20 each. Very few for the original flare nuts will come undone so be prepared to cut through the lines. All came undone when presented with an impact driver (NOT impact wrench). I used the originals as template to shape the replacement line by taping the two together as I formed the new shape along side the old. Get 10, 11 and 12mm flare spanners, jsut in case the lines do come un done, but also to nip up the new lines, although you can get away with ordinary open-ended spanners. I'm not 100% happy with the shaping I achieved but all the pipes follow the original routes and are clipped in or held in as they should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, ½cwt said: I did all the lines on my car this summer with cunifer. I bought a fairly cheap flaring tool, pipe cutter and flare nuts kit on eBay for a bout £85 but I did find I needed an extra coil of cunifer, the one in the kit was not quite enough. It did include a bending tool but it was useless for the 986. If you do make the short caliper to flexi pipes lines your self, you will need lots more fittings Yes, I put a joint in both the front and rear cross over pies for convenience. I actually found the front one to be harder getting the almost switch back bends in to the front right where it goes around the chassis member out to the wheel arch. A number of clips will break, I over came most by using two cable ties to retain the new pipe, others I figured there was enough support. All the flare nuts except one in the main system are DIN M10 x 1, there is one M12 x 1. Given how short and fiddly they were and that the spring clips on mine were very rust I bought 4 new caliper to flexi lines from Porsche which are about £20 each. Very few for the original flare nuts will come undone so be prepared to cut through the lines. All came undone when presented with an impact driver (NOT impact wrench). I used the originals as template to shape the replacement line by taping the two together as I formed the new shape along side the old. Get 10, 11 and 12mm flare spanners, jsut in case the lines do come un done, but also to nip up the new lines, although you can get away with ordinary open-ended spanners. I'm not 100% happy with the shaping I achieved but all the pipes follow the original routes and are clipped in or held in as they should be. Why the impact driver not impact wrench? I would have guessed at the opposite, and have both tools, so I’m genuinely curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted December 7, 2023 Report Share Posted December 7, 2023 Impact driver is far less brutal and lower torque for screws and smaller gauge bolts and takes hex fittings like screw driver bits rather than ½" square sockets. The flare nuts come out very easily with the driver, just that they started to burr off with a flare spanner in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 After replacing the brake lines I noticed one of the small brake lines from the hose to the caliper was not looking good so while I am there…… I got the corroded brake Union out of the caliper without breaking it I have a vibro impact attachment that will virtually remove any corroded nut/bolt. The only problem was it had removed most of the aluminium thread so time for a helicoil. set upon the mill,drilled out and taped with new helicoil in. Made up the small pipe and touched in the red paint on the caliper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 Nice job! i’m in the process of doing something with mine. I have two of the metal cups from the front brake shims stuck in the pistons. Any ideas how to remove them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) If you mean the circular ones that spring into the pistons, I would say if they don’t pop out then they are corroded in worst case you’ll have to destroy them and buy new ones, unless you can just leave them in why do they need to come out? Edited December 9, 2023 by Halfordwill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 Good you used (and I'm envious you've got one and the space for it) a mill, but still make sure that flare nut seats and seals in the cone at the bottom when braking pressure is in the brake line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 Thanks yes I will pressure test it all before I put the wheels on and take it for a test drive. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 On 12/7/2023 at 9:00 PM, phazed said: What is the main reason for the master cylinder upgrade? Is it really worth it? Just like to know while I have everything apart! Basically you are going from 22 mm to 27 mm so in hydraulic terms less effort to achieve the same result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted December 9, 2023 Report Share Posted December 9, 2023 What size is the 987.1 by comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted December 10, 2023 Report Share Posted December 10, 2023 10 hours ago, phazed said: What size is the 987.1 by comparison? 22mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted December 10, 2023 Report Share Posted December 10, 2023 Isn’t the whole point of the Porsche brake set up to have the correct amount of feel? When I have used my 987.1 on track, the brakes feel fantastic. Just the right amount of feel, working hard when the pedal is pushed without ever feeling that you are standing on the brakes. In fact, most of my braking is done while heal and toeing, which certainly wouldn’t be achievable if you needed a lot of pressure on the brakes. Of course modern cars brakes are far too powerful for the initial push. I’m not sure why this is but whenever I jump into a modern car the brake pedal feel is completely wrong. You have to mentally adjust the pressure you put on the pedal for the initial push as even the slightest pressure seems to bring the car rapidly to a halt! The same goes for steering. It is so light on modern cars as to give hardly any feel of the road at all. Mind you, I think manufacturers think that cars now are just for getting from a to b using as little energy as possible. They are hardly drivers cars! My point is, is the 22 mm master cylinder actually the right fitting for the car and will the 27 mm make it feel just like a modern generic vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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