Menoporsche Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 A delivery truck hit the back of my Toyota last Wednesday while my wife was driving. Clearly his fault and he even wrote as such on the form. Now my insurance company sends me a letter saying his (declared) insurance wasn't valid (says "not valid at date of accident", I get the impression the policy had lapsed). I have no idea what the final bill will be; a new back window definitely, but it wasn't clear if the floor was pushed in too. My insurance company - who don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the box - are saying they'll proceed with the repair at my cost. I feel it can't be right that the costs have to come out of my insurance (and my pocket). Surely the delivery truck's company should have some sort of liability? Would it be for my insurance company to approach the company of the vehicle, or is their role now officially ended and it's up to me to pursue a personal claim? What would happen in the UK in this situation, anyone know? Thanks for thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 If it was in the UK then you could pursue a claim through the Motor Insurers Bureau but, unless things have changed, only in respect of personal injuries. Again if in the UK, and assuming comprehensive cover, your insurer would be responsible for the repair to your vehicle and, if applicable, attempting to recover any coats via the MIB. Sorry but no idea re Portugal. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon61 Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Non-expert thoughts: - If you had the equivalent of comprehensive cover, then surely your insurer should pay you even if they can't recover it from the other party or their insurer? (Of course you may not choose to claim if you know your insurer is picking up the cost and will just load your future premiums to recover it - is that what you meant by 'at my cost'?). - Even if the delivery company had any other type of insurance (eg general liability) I would expect that to specifically exclude any liabilities arising from vehicle claims. The company itself should be still liable and you'd expect to have enough assets to pay, but I suspect you'll get sent on a wild goose chase about who the truck belonged to, whose responsibility it was to renew the insurance etc. before somehow finding that the company was miraculously bankrupt or something similar. - Regardless of whether it's you or your insurer trying to recover the costs from the other side, if it comes down to court proceeding against the delivery company itself (as opposed to insurers dealing between themselves) then there must be a chance that it would all cost too much (without even a guarantee of success, even if you have some sort of written admission) and wouldn't be worth doing? Unless perhaps there is an equivalent of a Small Claims Court in Portugal that could cover matters like this. - Probably a daft question, but would your police take any interest in them driving without insurance? (eg criminal proceedings that you could somehow piggy-back a civil claim onto?) - I presume you don't have any extra legal cover on top of your motor insurance (or even your household insurance) that could give you any guidance in this? Good luck getting it sorted out, although I suspect it may not be a particularly favourable outcome I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Thanks both. I do have comprehensive cover - I'm just seething about "it's the principle of the thing". They noted my excess is about €200. I just find it odd that within a day they can wash their hands of it without trying some other route. I've paid them ten grand over the years FFS. Rats, only two claims in 8 years and both were against uninsured cars!! (I smashed it into a Clio just a few months after getting it, going the wrong way down a road which wasn't signposted as such - the occupants did a runner and the police found the car was about as illegal as it gets. At least I removed it from the road...) The first thing I told wife to do was to take a load of photos of the vehicles, road and even the driver - which she got... True, I'd have thought the police would be very interested in a truck driving round without insurance. I asked a Portuguese car fan in the office, waiting to see if he knows. I'll also put the question on my Portuguese Porsche board tonight to see if there's a local solution. I do have Portuguese AA membership, I could look and see what that gives me. But I thought it would be my insurer's job to do all the legwork?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon61 Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Menoporsche said: But I thought it would be my insurer's job to do all the legwork?? Yes it should be, and I would try to persuade them to do so, but it may be in your interests to do some if they are being a bit amanhã (?) about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topradio Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Some British friends of my parents were visiting their son on Cyprus who was a lawyer working there. They were involved in an accident, which put them both in hospital with serious injuries. The lorry that hit them was on the wrong side of the road and out of control. The lorry and driver mysteriously disappeared after the accident and the local police said that they couldn't find either. The lawyer son pulled some strings and the lorry was found hidden some weeks later. The local chief of police commented that 'they had friends in high places' And the implication was that the local plod had been protecting the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I don't know if there is a Portuguese equivalent of the MIB (which was set up here specifically to cover the innocent parties in uninsured/untraced insurance incidents). If not I would guess that your insurers may take the view that to pursue a claim against the owners of the other vehicle would be a more time consuming ( and costly?) option than settling with you under your comprehensive cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I think this is why you have the 'legal costs' cover for UK policies. This should enable to chase and recover costs from the individual if not insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted June 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 OK, to wrap up (or at least deliver the next exciting instalment)... There is a MIB (no not men in black) equivalent in Portugal but it apparently only covers costs when you don't have All Risks policy. In my particular case, it's as in Purdie's first reply above - my insurance pays for the repair, I pay the excess of €200, and (the broker said by phone) "we then reimburse you that once we've got our costs back from the truck owners." Well I wish you'd written that in the letter, it would have saved my blood pressure. With my legal head on, I guess they didn't want to commit to anything in case they don't succeed ever getting the costs back. It just seems odd that I have to pay the excess then get it back. Why doesn't my insurance pay the whole thing? Some bizarre reason like consideration for a contract? Weird... Anyone from the insurance industry want to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyspin Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I think it's normal to take the excess from both parties until final liability % has been determined - then refund accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXY Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 On 6/2/2016 at 3:25 PM, Menoporsche said: OK, to wrap up (or at least deliver the next exciting instalment)... There is a MIB (no not men in black) equivalent in Portugal but it apparently only covers costs when you don't have All Risks policy. In my particular case, it's as in Purdie's first reply above - my insurance pays for the repair, I pay the excess of €200, and (the broker said by phone) "we then reimburse you that once we've got our costs back from the truck owners." Well I wish you'd written that in the letter, it would have saved my blood pressure. With my legal head on, I guess they didn't want to commit to anything in case they don't succeed ever getting the costs back. It just seems odd that I have to pay the excess then get it back. Why doesn't my insurance pay the whole thing? Some bizarre reason like consideration for a contract? Weird... Anyone from the insurance industry want to comment? ODD I suppose the BIG question is; Would this have happened if you were NOT part of the EU I always imagined the 'excess' is the bit YOU have to pay UNLESS/UNTIL the other driver's insurance cough's up. It's been like that from I started driving over 30 years ago. FOR INSTANCE you can increase your excess CONSIDERABLY to reduce your insurance costs, again I imagine this is because you are reducing the insurers risk. How did it work the last time you had need to claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Never needed to claim for an accident that's not my fault. (Actually that sounds awful ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ken Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, Menoporsche said: Never needed to claim for an accident that's not my fault. (Actually that sounds awful ) SO far as I am aware the excess is always payable, no matter whose fault it is, unless your insurance firm can get satisfaction form teh other party. However most insurance firms don't even bother to pursue the guilty party in order to save time and money by working on the principle of 'knock for knock' irrespective of who is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXY Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 3 hours ago, Menoporsche said: Never needed to claim for an accident that's not my fault. (Actually that sounds awful ) Or brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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