Cheap 718

[chrishak]

On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Whaleblue said:

You may be right. But I don't think so!

The Mustang is The American Muscle Car, and the V8 outperforms the 2.3 Turbo by a wide margin.

The Boxster is, first and foremost, a 365 day's a year usable, driver's car. From my personal experience I'd say the 718 outshines the 981 in every area that should matter to the driver of such a car - excepting it sounds different, and I fully accept, to some, worse.

But to chose a car just on sound, ignoring ride, handling and performance, seems barmy to me.

Of course, only time will tell whether it is embraced or rejected by Porsche enthusiasts. Or maybe the brand will see its fan base shift ever so slightly?

Anyway, I hope we all love and enjoy the cars we chose.

Vive La Difference? 

Couldn't agree more - I was really surprised how much I enjoyed the 718 S I borrowed. It felt so.much more agile and sporting than any 981 I'd driven. If I was looking to buy a new Porsche, I'd have one in a heartbeat.

[That986]

16 minutes ago, chrishak said:

Couldn't agree more - I was really surprised how much I enjoyed the 718 S I borrowed. It felt so.much more agile and sporting than any 981 I'd driven. If I was looking to buy a new Porsche, I'd have one in a heartbeat.

I'd have to disagree strongly. You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

[chrishak]

27 minutes ago, That986 said:

I'd have to disagree strongly. You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

You disagree strongly that I was surprised how much I enjoyed the 718 and that I'd buy one in a heartbeat? How does that work?

[Whaleblue]

1 hour ago, That986 said:

I'd have to disagree strongly. You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

I assume you were disagreeing with me.

I agree entirely that you buy a car on how it makes you feel.

We just differ over what contributes to that feeling, and how. Which is fair enough.

[Rufus]

1 hour ago, That986 said:

I'd have to disagree strongly. You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

Have you driven one ??

 

i told a mate it was a 3.8 litre engine and he believed me, told the lads at the car wash it was 2l and they didn't believe me lol

 

honestly they sound pretty impressive, mine was bright yellow and I've never received as many compliments, thumbs up and smiles in a week in any other car.

 

until I drove one I thought it was porsches worst decision in years but I ended up buying one after a few days behind the wheel.... and I bought the smallest engine version haha

 

different strokes for different folks I guess

[chrishak]

1 hour ago, Whaleblue said:

I assume you were disagreeing with me.

I agree entirely that you buy a car on how it makes you feel.

We just differ over what contributes to that feeling, and how. Which is fair enough.

No, I think he was disagreeing with me, which is a bit odd as I didn't even mention the noise (if any PCGB members on here would like to refer to the R26 report in this months Porsche Post, they'll be able to read my thoughts on it!).

But as it's such an emotive subject, I'd like to state here and now that, died in the wool, AIR-COOLED flat-six fan and flat-earther I may be, Porsche have produced many four cylinder cars I would give my right arm to own! A few examples? Any 356 Carrera, 550 Spyder, 718 (original), RS, RSK, 904, 924 Carrera GT, GTS, 968 Turbo S - the list goes on. Oh, and can I please have a 919 as a track-day toy?

To this list, I would like to add Boxster or Cayman 718 (although I'd want to keep my full complement of arms for the latter!)

All said in good humour of course, each to his own.

[Leonard]

I have had plenty of lovely 4 cylinders in my time, but (and despite having an S2 Cab and MX5) I just dont think they should be in a Cabriolet. Its all about those country drives and revving out the engine to hear that glorious wail. 

I can almost accept it in the Cayman but not the Boxster. My Golf R with a reasonably sonorous one exhaust per cyclinder and augmented cabin induction noise goes on Wednesday and I pick up my new 981 S on Thursday. The engines are polar opposite and IMO they both work exactly as they should in their respective chassis/body. The Golf R is day to day cross country weapon to be deployed out of every corner flat out and never out of the power band. Smashing the road up whilst sounding like a hooligan. The Boxster will (I hope) be an equally capable cross country partner. Not quite as forgiving a day to day companion and will require a little bit more finesse to get it from one corner to the next flat out. All whilst accompanied by that (only to be founf in a Porsche) spine tingling wail of the flat 6 behind your head, top down.

So yes I would possibly have a 4 cylinder Cayman but not the Boxster unfortunately.

I cant help but think the only way Porsche could distance the next gen 718 from the 991 whilst still moving the game on, was the move from 6cyl to 4 cyl. No matter what they say about emissions etc... I would even have preferred a hybrid 718 with a smaller displacement forced 6 or even 3 cylinder engine 

[Happy Days]

6 hours ago, That986 said:

I'd have to disagree strongly. You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

Have you driven a 718? Easy to sl*g them off based on YouTube clips or journo reviews. Just curious. 

[Happy Days]

3 hours ago, Leonard said:

I have had plenty of lovely 4 cylinders in my time, but (and despite having an S2 Cab and MX5) I just dont think they should be in a Cabriolet. Its all about those country drives and revving out the engine to hear that glorious wail. 

I can almost accept it in the Cayman but not the Boxster. My Golf R with a reasonably sonorous one exhaust per cyclinder and augmented cabin induction noise goes on Wednesday and I pick up my new 981 S on Thursday. The engines are polar opposite and IMO they both work exactly as they should in their respective chassis/body. The Golf R is day to day cross country weapon to be deployed out of every corner flat out and never out of the power band. Smashing the road up whilst sounding like a hooligan. The Boxster will (I hope) be an equally capable cross country partner. Not quite as forgiving a day to day companion and will require a little bit more finesse to get it from one corner to the next flat out. All whilst accompanied by that (only to be founf in a Porsche) spine tingling wail of the flat 6 behind your head, top down.

So yes I would possibly have a 4 cylinder Cayman but not the Boxster unfortunately.

I cant help but think the only way Porsche could distance the next gen 718 from the 991 whilst still moving the game on, was the move from 6cyl to 4 cyl. No matter what they say about emissions etc... I would even have preferred a hybrid 718 with a smaller displacement forced 6 or even 3 cylinder engine 

Am I reading this right? You think a VW Golf R would be better cross country than a lightweight mid engined sports car with 350bhp on tap?

Enjoy your Cayman when it arrives. 

[Leonard]

1 minute ago, Happy Days said:

Am I reading this right? You think a VW Golf R would be better cross country than a lightweight mid engined sports car with 350bhp on tap?

Enjoy your Cayman when it arrives. 

No I was just comparing how cars engines affect their feel and ultimately how you drive them. Tbh though I imagine my old Golf will be faster day to day than my new 981 on the roads around where i live in the Peak District.  Am I going to have more fun in the Porsche? Hell yeah

[Happy Days]

I also have a golf. Believe me, the 718 rules!

[That986]

I don't have to drive one, don't actually want to drive one as i love the unadulterated wail of a flat six at the top end. It's one of the reasons i bought a Boxster otherwise my sensible head would have said buy a much later MX5 or even an S2000. 

As someone mentioned above i think the move has nothing to do with emissions at all, Porsche are VAG so that gets offset by the rest of the company. I think they did it in a deliberate move to make the 911 stand out again. 

And Chris, i disagreed strongly on buying one and not the fact that you enjoyed the car. If you enjoyed it then great, i'm glad you did.

[Araf]

16 hours ago, That986 said:

You buy a car on how it makes you feel and a lot of the Porsche sports car feeling is that flat 6 noise. 

The same as i wouldn't buy an American muscle car with less than 8 cylinders or a Mazda without a rotary. 

I'm not sure about this.  Emotive, purist, or ludite; I don't know who fits in where.  I prefer to keep an open mind as in the past it has allowed me to have experiences that many others have missed out on just through badge snobbery or heresay.  I think all here must have some degree of this or we would be driving 911s rather than the poor man's Porsche.  

BTW, the Ecoboost Mustang is producing some serious power.  The problem is why would you opt for this in a muscle coupe rather than a Eurobox?

[That986]

14 minutes ago, Araf said:

I'm not sure about this.  Emotive, purist, or ludite; I don't know who fits in where.  I prefer to keep an open mind as in the past it has allowed me to have experiences that many others have missed out on just through badge snobbery or heresay.  I think all here must have some degree of this or we would be driving 911s rather than the poor man's Porsche.  

BTW, the Ecoboost Mustang is producing some serious power.  The problem is why would you opt for this in a muscle coupe rather than a Eurobox?

That's my thoughts. If i'm going to have something i want the right spec attached. If you have the Stang then you want to hear that 8 cylinder rumble, it's part of the whole package. I'm not saying the ecoboost isn't good as i've heard extremely good things about it but i if i had one and an 8 cylinder came past i know i'd be thinking why didn't I go for that.

I don't see the Boxster as a poor mans Porker either as it has the right blend of everything for me. It's light, looks good, engine is in the right place, the roof goes down and you can't fit more than one passenger in, perfect. The fact they also happen to be pretty quick, handle well and make the best noise ever just ticks all the boxes. I love 911s but they weren't top of my list when looking, I actually prefer the Boxster. Might sound crazy, but i like small, nimble convertibles. 

Horses for courses and all that,

[Araf]

I think we're on the same page.  

 

I drive a Boxster despite its Porsche badge, not because of it. 

[That986]

1 minute ago, Araf said:

I think we're on the same page.  

 

I drive a Boxster despite its Porsche badge, not because of it. 

Definitely on the same page. 

[Leonard]

1 hour ago, That986 said:

Definitely on the same page. 

Ditto. And because of the 6 cyl engine for me. Nothing less, nothing more, just that the engine. Would have had it if it was in a convertible Skoda

[GTB981]

Same here, I don`t aspire to the brand and had never driven a 981, let alone a Porsche or seen a 981 up close. However, it ticked all the boxes. I came from a flat 4 GT86 (scooby engine) which I had supercharged. Now that was a fun car ! but I could no longer live with the poor cheap interior and had funds...... Did loads to the GT86 but it was time to get back into something with a bit of quality. Had owned SL350 and SLK55 AMG before but fancied something different. When I do come to change it I`ll look at all options available, brand loyalty ain`t necessarily my thing but I do fancy a 718 !

[Whaleblue]

9 hours ago, That986 said:

...I love 911s but they weren't top of my list when looking, I actually prefer the Boxster. Might sound crazy, but i like small, nimble convertibles.

I could not agree more.

Convertible first, all other considerations second.

I do love the 911 though. But, oddly not as a convertible!

[That986]

10 hours ago, Whaleblue said:

I could not agree more.

Convertible first, all other considerations second.

I do love the 911 though. But, oddly not as a convertible!

Me as well. Which seems to be universal going by the price of hardtops on ebay, Boxster tops are normally 3-4 times the price of a 911.

[topradio]

I believe that every 911 cab came with a hard top whereas it was an option on the Boxster. If you think about it that would make 911 roofs almost worthless. Allowing for scrappage there are probably more 911 hardtops than there are cars.

[Boxob]

I wonder if Porsche would ever revert to a flat 6 for the Boxster if sales of the 718 are poor as a consequence of the change to a flat 4?

If they did wonder I what that would do to 718 s/h market? Would the 718 still be as desirable? What do 718 owners think if their cars were to become the only 4pots in the Boxster range?

 

[That986]

1 hour ago, topradio said:

I believe that every 911 cab came with a hard top whereas it was an option on the Boxster. If you think about it that would make 911 roofs almost worthless. Allowing for scrappage there are probably more 911 hardtops than there are cars.

That would go some way to explaining it.

[chrishak]

I don't believe Porsche ever shipped a free hardtop with every 911 cabriolet - after all, this is a company that makes serious profit out of options! And why would they when the hard-top market was covered by the coupe and there was (and is) a compromise available in the Targa?

A more likely explanation would be that pre-Cayman, the Boxster was only available as a soft-top so if you wanted a mid-engined Porsche with a hard-top, you had to buy one as an option, so it follows that this still holds true today - you want a 911 hardtop, you buy a coupe, you want a Boxster hardtop, you have to buy a hardtop, hence market prices are higher. It's a logical case of supply and demand.

[Araf]

15 minutes ago, Boxob said:

I wonder if Porsche would ever revert to a flat 6 for the Boxster if sales of the 718 are poor as a consequence of the change to a flat 4?

If they did wonder I what that would do to 718 s/h market? Would the 718 still be as desirable? What do 718 owners think if their cars were to become the only 4pots in the Boxster range?

IF it were to happen (and that's a big 'if') I would guess that Porsche would bring a third model into the line-up above the base model and the S with a 6 pot.  However I don't think that will happen.  Porsche have always looked on the Boxster as a way of pulling people into the brand, and they really want them in a 911 (which they earn better money from).
 

Anyway, whilst many here may be mourning the loss of two cylinders (I'm going to give the new engine a chance so don't include myself in that number), there will still be plenty of buyers of the cheaper cars, just so they can say "I've got a Porsche."  They won't be members here, as they identify with brand image and not petrolheads.