Will, where the Boxster was made affect future classic values ie Stuttgart or Finland

[the baron]

Just checked my vin number and found out it was made in Stuttgart rather than Finland do you think in years to come this will make these cars more desirable hence more valauable?

How to check yours?

Originally produced in Stuttgart. 11th digit of VIN is S.

Later produced in Finland. 11th digit is U.

[bagss2]

No. 

 

Cheers, Baggers.

[the baron]

I think it will 

[bpj]

I remember reading about this a while ago, the general consensus seemed to be that cars coming out of Finland were of higher quality. Go figure

First thread that appeared doing a google search: http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/8542-german-built-verus-finland-boxster.html. It's been discussed many times!

[edc]

I don't think it will make any difference. One train of thought across most car makes is that the first offs are the ones to avoid. You want the year 2-3 onwards when most initial production issues are ironed out and identified. 

[Billzeebub]

As the years go by what will make these cars desirable (aside from the creep of electric/autonomous vehicles) is originality and provenance. Where they were built is largely immaterial IMHO. The only build statistics to take into account, if you are highly risk averse, is the dates when the IMS bearing went from double row to single (Around 99 I seem to recall).

[mikefocke]

From http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/

 

" Model years 1997-1999 used a dual row IMS bearing. Model year 2000 and 2001 engines are cross-over years where a dual row or single row IMS bearing could have been used, requiring visual inspection to identify which you have. Model year 2000 through most of the 2005 models will use a single row IMS bearing. However, some 2005 model year vehicles will have the larger, non-serviceable, without complete engine dis-assembly, bearing as found in the 2006 through 2008 model years. Additionally, if the engine is not original to the car, for example a car that might have a replacement engine, it will have whatever type bearing was currently in production for the model year in which the engine was built. One easy sign that you have a re-manufactured factory engine that has been replaced is if there is an X or Y in the engine number located on the lower edge of the engine’s sump. "

[mikefocke]

Maybe if it was very early production (like in the first dozen or so). But Boxsters weren't a low production car and they are unlikely to become collector cars.  I'm even surprised at the prices I'm seeing for the early year 911/996 cars.

[the baron]

1 hour ago, mikefocke said:

Maybe if it was very early production (like in the first dozen or so). But Boxsters weren't a low production car and they are unlikely to become collector cars.  I'm even surprised at the prices I'm seeing for the early year 911/996 cars.

Don’t really agree with that, look at the 924 as an example, they are rapidity appreciating, who’d have thought. Look at some other mass produced marque like the Ford escort mk1 some are going for stupid money

Lots of boxsters are being scrapped each year so numbers are going down, not saying that they will increase but I think they have a very good chance of being one to look for in the future.

[bagss2]

4 minutes ago, the baron said:

Don’t really agree with that, look at the 924 as an example, they are rapidity appreciating, who’d have thought. Look at some other mass produced marque like the Ford escort mk1 some are going for stupid money

Lots of boxsters are being scrapped each year so numbers are going down, not saying that they will increase but I think they have a very good chance of being one to look for in the future.

Of this there is no doubt!

But they're not going to get to the point where the 11th digit of the VIN is a deciding factor re. desirability.

IMHO. 

 

Cheers, Baggers.

[the baron]

26 minutes ago, bagss2 said:

Of this there is no doubt!

But they're not going to get to the point where the 11th digit of the VIN is a deciding factor re. desirability.

IMHO. 

 

Cheers, Baggers.

I agree, I was just pointing out the error of Mikes statement.

although long term it might make a difference, who knows, condition is always key not Vin number but if like for like it might make a difference in 50yrs ?

[Boxob]

3 hours ago, the baron said:

Don’t really agree with that, look at the 924 as an example, they are rapidity appreciating, who’d have thought. Look at some other mass produced marque like the Ford escort mk1 some are going for stupid money

Lots of boxsters are being scrapped each year so numbers are going down, not saying that they will increase but I think they have a very good chance of being one to look for in the future.

What we don't have working in our favour to reduce numbers is rust! 

[Terryg]

Did it make any difference to the P1800? I don't know the answer but someone here might.

[Dwdg]

Mine is a Stuttgart car too, and obviously more desirable. ?

I’m curious as to whether there was a particular specification, modification or factory fit option that may have determined if a car was manufactured in Germany or Finland during the early years, as mine is a 2000. I also note the comments regarding paint - and believe they are accurate.

Perhaps the hardtop or car phone options were only installed via Stuttgart, or maybe just pure chance... either way, happy I have a German German car. 

[Billzeebub]

I would recommend that anyone modifying their Boxster keep the original parts for future saleability whenever that may be. Eg. Amber lights are not everyone's cup of tea but may be just the ticket for a future buyer. I for one am immediately put off non standard cars and I expect many others feel the same. If you intend keeping the car forever then not so important. 

[edc]

I'm not worried about mods as long as there is a story with the original modifier or owner. Weird mods which have subsequently passed on through ownership are a slightly different scenario though.

[That986]

1 hour ago, Billzeebub said:

I would recommend that anyone modifying their Boxster keep the original parts for future saleability whenever that may be. Eg. Amber lights are not everyone's cup of tea but may be just the ticket for a future buyer. I for one am immediately put off non standard cars and I expect many others feel the same. If you intend keeping the car forever then not so important. 

I'd go for mechanical perfection over a couple of different headlights any day. I'd rather buy a good car that's had the greasy bits looked after properly than a barely used garage queen that has originality, low mileage and will probably break the first time you try and use it. 

There was the McLaren F1 that went up for sale a while ago that hadn't turned a wheel since new. As a car it's pointless, you can't really drive it as it would wreck the value to do so. I think the same about most of the 911R that went up for sale and then got flipped, most will never get used as intended so as a car they're pointless.

Are we really now talking about 986s as investment potential? 

[edc]

There is no investment potential in any 986 currently. The prices would have to go up in the order of several 100% in a very short time frame to even out any running, tax, insurance, servicing costs. 

Like most investments timing is key. You want to get in right at the moment the prices start going up. As it is they are just flat. A bit like pensions, if your fund value remain static for a few years you are actually losing money with the annual management charges being deducted.

[Billzeebub]

3 hours ago, That986 said:

I'd go for mechanical perfection over a couple of different headlights any day. I'd rather buy a good car that's had the greasy bits looked after properly than a barely used garage queen that has originality, low mileage and will probably break the first time you try and use it. 

There was the McLaren F1 that went up for sale a while ago that hadn't turned a wheel since new. As a car it's pointless, you can't really drive it as it would wreck the value to do so. I think the same about most of the 911R that went up for sale and then got flipped, most will never get used as intended so as a car they're pointless.

Are we really now talking about 986s as investment potential? 

986s will not be investments in the way certain 911s are. Though, good cars with decent provenance will be the sought after ones in the future, just like any older/classic car. With a following wind over time people may get their costs back. I struggle to see people making huge profit out of ownership any time soon. However I have noticed prices seem to be firming up for the best examples. 

Even looking at Pistinheads (where the models are broken down to 986/987/981/718) shows a third of the amount of 986s available compared to 987/981s. A sign the cars are becoming rarer and/or being held longer.

I wasn't suggesting buying a pristine looking car over a mechanically well maintained example. For me it has to be both. I think many people feel that way. Hence, I would recommend it being a good idea for any owner to keep original bits if they decide to modify (assuming they have the space obviously)

[That986]

39 minutes ago, Billzeebub said:

Even looking at Pistinheads (where the models are broken down to 986/987/981/718) shows a third of the amount of 986s available compared to 987/981s. A sign the cars are becoming rarer and/or being held longer.

I wasn't suggesting buying a pristine looking car over a mechanically well maintained example. For me it has to be both. I think many people feel that way. Hence, I would recommend it being a good idea for any owner to keep original bits if they decide to modify (assuming they have the space obviously)

Probably because they're getting on, getting scrapped as more get put into barriers, gravel traps or are mechanically dead. I still don't see the investment in them, values may be holding but i can't see them going up anytime now or in the future. They're not that well built, sparsely appointed in most cases and let's face it the cabin is soulless, it's not like you're climbing into an SL for example. Even the special limited ones with trinkets on really are just the same cars with new lipstick.

Treat them as they are in being an affordable entry into Porsche motoring and you won't go far wrong. .

Btw Pistonhead prices are always over the top. 

[Billzeebub]

7 minutes ago, That986 said:

Probably because they're getting on, getting scrapped as more get put into barriers, gravel traps or are mechanically dead. I still don't see the investment in them, values may be holding but i can't see them going up anytime now or in the future. They're not that well built, sparsely appointed in most cases and let's face it the cabin is soulless, it's not like you're climbing into an SL for example. Even the special limited ones with trinkets on really are just the same cars with new lipstick.

Treat them as they are in being an affordable entry into Porsche motoring and you won't go far wrong. .

Btw Pistonhead prices are always over the top. 

I guess it's good we all don't see things the same way. The cabin is snug and I have always loved it. Particularly if it's full leather. As for where to buy and sell, I have only ever really used Pistonheads since its inception. Generally seem to be more enthusiasts as buyers/sellers than the ubiquitous Autotrader/Ebay etc. Guess I must be doing something right as never owned a car that has broken down, aside from a flat battery. Anyway, putting the money in at purchase is my usual decision and probably slightly off topic for this thread. 

[mikefocke]

I'm shocked at the way prices for the early 911/996 have fallen. I can get good examples now for half what I paid for my used Boxster back when it was 6 years old.  So if there is no collector car market for the 996, there can't be one now for the 986. Add in the fact that for the early 356 and 91n cars, rust and rarity meant low numbers and we have neither going for the 986 and I can't see a collectors market price for another 20 years.  And in 20 years will driving one be an aspiration except for the geezers trying to recreate their youth? Electric autonomous wave. So limited buying audience.

[edc]

41 minutes ago, mikefocke said:

I'm shocked at the way prices for the early 911/996 have fallen. I can get good examples now for half what I paid for my used Boxster back when it was 6 years old.  So if there is no collector car market for the 996, there can't be one now for the 986. Add in the fact that for the early 356 and 91n cars, rust and rarity meant low numbers and we have neither going for the 986 and I can't see a collectors market price for another 20 years.  And in 20 years will driving one be an aspiration except for the geezers trying to recreate their youth? Electric autonomous wave. So limited buying audience.

That maybe the case where you are but 996 prices are on the up here. The prices have been lower approx 3 years ago. Turbos are probably 50-75% more. 

[the baron]

52 minutes ago, edc said:

That maybe the case where you are but 996 prices are on the up here. The prices have been lower approx 3 years ago. Turbos are probably 50-75% more. 

+1 996 are definitely on the rise especially the Turbos

[Nellyans]

Lots of valued comments I just like driving mine 2.7 2002 ..85k full history always puts a smile on my face owned for 12 years now doesn’t owe me anything no intention to sell I jump in my friends 996 and to me the same car all be it abit quicker everybody has there own opinion I suppose.They certainly don’t want parking up in some garage..