Track days in the 987

[toplad]

I was using the braking style mentioned above, which is,

Transfer the weight over the front wheels with a few mm's of brake movement to load up the suspension, then hard on the brakes, not inducing the ABS, but with firm pressure and roll off smoothly. 

Croft track is pretty hard on brakes to be honest. It has 2 big stops from about 107mph and 1 from 99mph a lap. 

Think you'd needa  brake upgrade to cope with more than a few laps strung together. 

I don't intend to track the car again anyway, I definitely enjoyed the overall weekend, when I was younger it was all about ringing every last drop of performance from the cars, now 8/10ths is enough after I had a lucky escape a few years ago in an M3 CSL 

[Steve_C]

In hindsight I think I was being too aggressive on the brakes and staying out for too long.  Now, I am more progressive and only do about 5 hot laps at a time.  I think I took the adage "spend as little time on the brakes as possible" a bit too far.

[Tengocity]

I've tracked the Boxster a few times in my 2 years of ownership thus far, with a trip to Silverstone just last week. 

I find it very enjoyable on track, and find that if I'm not driving over 8/10s on the braking then they hold up not bad. However I've just order some Pagid RS4-2s to give a little bit more braking performance. I've got GT3 ducts, and will do a better fluid next time, which I think will be fine for me. 

In terms of consumables, my car has done 12k miles over the last 2 years, all as weekend toy that only sees spirited driving and track days (about 6 in that time) , so quite hard use. When I bought it I fitted new tyres and brakes all round, and currently I've just replaced the rears, fronts still on 4-6mm, and the brake pads are just getting to the point now where they need changed. So I think it's not too bad in that regard.

Overall I feel it has a great balance of being fast enough for any track that you can overtake slower stuff, but not so quick that you can kid yourself you're quicker than you are. It's more than refined enough for long road trips to track days, yet feels agile and nimble and a proper sports car to give a high level of interaction, and real reward for driving it well.

I think the concern for me is just how durable the 987 gen 1 engine is... I've done the IMS bearing, and fitted a deep sump kit. I am considering getting some road legal track day tyres for next year but the risk is that the higher lateral g forces can potentially lead to oil supply issues apparently.

[RobScott]

Rather than the Deep sump kit, you should just go for the baffled sump.

I run EBC Yellow pads on my RX car,  I've never cooked them,  Remember to change your brake fluid regularly.
I don't run any ducts, because I have adjustable fork arms, and also it packs the brakes with mud


 

[spyderman8]

+1 for a baffled sump - most of our race Boxsters have them.

Be careful of fitting more aggressive pads - without additional cooling (and I mean beyond GT3 ducts) you will likely suffer more problems with overheating than less. If your callipers start changing colour, you’ll need to consider stripping and re-sealing them at the end of the season.

Castrol SRF is the best brake fluid you can get - it’s what my team always used - but costs a small fortune.

[Tengocity]

My understanding is there are two deep sump kits available, one is substantial, the other less so. I have the latter and look inside showed that it had bigger baffles as well, so perhaps this is the one I've got anyway?

I hear what you're saying about more aggressive pads, hence why I went for RS4-2s, rather than say RS29s, though I have a friend who is running Giro-discs on his Cayman and they seem to deal with the heat much better.

[RobScott]

just use the brakes less , enter the corner sideways

[Purdie]

5 hours ago, RobScott said:

just use the brakes less , enter the corner sideways

Spectacular - but slow 😊

[Araf]

1 hour ago, Purdie said:

Spectacular - but slow 😊

No timing on track days, so 'spectacular' works for me  - unless you get black flagged.  

[RobScott]

Thought we were talking about track days?   They are to have fun, as they arn't races.

[brickwall]

On 11/23/2018 at 4:58 PM, Steve_C said:

In hindsight I think I was being too aggressive on the brakes and staying out for too long.  Now, I am more progressive and only do about 5 hot laps at a time.  I think I took the adage "spend as little time on the brakes as possible" a bit too far.

I've always had the advice (though to be fair not in my Boxster) that on a track day you do 5 laps, then come in to cool down. This was on Bedford GT, so a long circuit - maybe that number is higher for a shorter track. 

I remember we were in a Golf GTI, stayed out for a 6th lap on the final run of the day, and had massive brake fade into the corner at the end of the back straight!

[911-32]

Number of laps depends a lot on the car and the track - some tracks are very easy on brakes, some not.

I would think for a standard Boxster - with everything in good condition meaning thick pads/discs + new fluid - you are still well advised to do an out-lap, c.5 good laps and a cool down lap.  The cool down lap with as close zero braking as possible is particularly important so you come in with much cooler brakes when the car is then sitting in the paddock.  Leave it in gear and handbrake off.

[Steve_C]

Yeah, my background is MX5's which will lap for hours on end.  Only doing 5 hot laps now seems such a short stint!

[911-32]

I was making a very conservative recommendation.  I haven't had the Boxster on track, but I would hope that with good fluid, RC5+ pads and big 345mm fr discs I could lap forever.  You may find 30+ min stints are fine.

[james_ly]

Tyres make a big difference too. Sticky tyres mean you exit the corner faster and can brake later, get those discs glowing! A quick driver at somewhere like Bedford is gonna get most standard road cars hot after a few laps IMO

[911-32]

Completely agree.  Bedford is very stop-go-stop-go type of track and fairly hard on brakes.  Somewhere like Spa is the opposite and fairly easy on brakes.

[Steve_C]

I have PS4S tyres and cooked the brakes at Blyton and Donington.

[spyderman8]

The longest I’ve done in a 987S is 50 minutes. Car fairly standard apart from Gaz shocks, extra ducting to cool the front brakes, RS29 pads, 18” race wheels and Dunlop slicks.

Chris.

[RobQ]

On 12/13/2018 at 5:49 PM, spyderman8 said:

The longest I’ve done in a 987S is 50 minutes. Car fairly standard apart from Gaz shocks, extra ducting to cool the front brakes, RS29 pads, 18” race wheels and Dunlop slicks.

Chris.

Chris is that the production Boxster series run by BRSCC? 

Looking to get into some (low-ish cost) racing next year and thinking about which car/series.  So much choice!!

[Tengocity]

On 12/13/2018 at 5:49 PM, spyderman8 said:

The longest I’ve done in a 987S is 50 minutes. Car fairly standard apart from Gaz shocks, extra ducting to cool the front brakes, RS29 pads, 18” race wheels and Dunlop slicks.

Chris.

Chris, can you share more about what mods you've done to the car? I can see you've got a roll cage.. is that something that stiffens up the whole chassis at all? I mulled over coilovers but not sure the overall rigidity in the chassis was there, so would ruin it for the road perhaps. Also, if you fit one is it easily removable in future, or are you consigning the car to a certain future?

Presume that you remove the whole hood and then a hard top is lighter?

Any other info on additional cooling or how much weight you can take out of the car appreciated.

[spyderman8]

That 987 was built for the BRSCC Porsches but became as spare car for the team. They ran me in my black 986 in Britcar Production series for a season then I co-drove (is that a word?) this 987 in Britcar Endurance.

Both cars have a Custom Cages roll cage welded in which make them as stiff as a very stiff thing. The Gaz shocks were chosen by the Porsches championship because they’re fairly low cost but could be improved on - but I would not want to run the car like this on the road - *way* too stiff!

[spyderman8]

All of the convertible top is removed and the roof is the standard Porsche one, which is aluminium but retains the glass rear screen (which is probably a bit daft).

For a race-approved cage you have to cut holes in the dash, so it’s not a reversible process!

Cooling consists of flexible ducting from the front near the rads, through the front tub, through the tub wall into the wheel arches and aimed at the inside face of the discs. Can only help!

[Pothole]

I've done a fair few track days in my 986s and 987s over the years. They're fun to drive on track, but I decided on my most recent track day that I wasn't crazy about driving my own Porsches on track days. I'm increasingly uncomfortable giving an M96/7 car absolute death on track but also can't see the point in doing track days unless I am pushing myself and the car pretty hard.

So what I decided was to rent in future. If you share the car with a couple of friends, renting, say, an Elise for the day the cost is fairly similar to the total (including wear on tyres and brakes etc) of running your own Porsche for a day.

I think even sharing with two other people you'd get as many laps in, too. I know that when I do track days in my own cars, I'm not out all day banging in laps. I go out for about five laps, come in and take a fairly long break / talk to people etc. With a rental, you can hammer the car all day, it's what it's there for, and not worry about killing your relatively fragile M96/7 engine etc.

It is nice to track your own car but I have rather gone off the idea. If I had an MA1/9A1 car, I'd probably take a different view!

[Tengocity]

9 hours ago, Pothole said:

I've done a fair few track days in my 986s and 987s over the years. They're fun to drive on track, but I decided on my most recent track day that I wasn't crazy about driving my own Porsches on track days. I'm increasingly uncomfortable giving an M96/7 car absolute death on track but also can't see the point in doing track days unless I am pushing myself and the car pretty hard.

So what I decided was to rent in future. If you share the car with a couple of friends, renting, say, an Elise for the day the cost is fairly similar to the total (including wear on tyres and brakes etc) of running your own Porsche for a day.

I think even sharing with two other people you'd get as many laps in, too. I know that when I do track days in my own cars, I'm not out all day banging in laps. I go out for about five laps, come in and take a fairly long break / talk to people etc. With a rental, you can hammer the car all day, it's what it's there for, and not worry about killing your relatively fragile M96/7 engine etc.

It is nice to track your own car but I have rather gone off the idea. If I had an MA1/9A1 car, I'd probably take a different view!

I know what you mean, but renting usually seem horrendously expensive, with huge excesses on insurance too. My Boxster is a third car and it's bought and paid for, so I don't really worry about damaging, be that in an off, or mechanical. I agree, the engine is the bit I worry about too, and I wonder if I should get a gen 2 Cayman, which would be stiffer, and have that better engine, but then I'd worry more about crashing it, as it would be a 20k car, and not a 10k one like my Boxster.

But I don't push it too hard for too long, and I am happy to push it hard in the bends and less so on the straights so that the engine is not being worked to the max for the entire session.

I so wonder what else would be suitable for taking a pasting at track, without costing an absolute arm and a leg, still reasonably quick and fun, and still good for a decent multi day road trip (ruling out a Caterham for me), and only Elise/Exige comes to mind. I'm not really fussed about hot hatches, and I've got an M4 as well, so it really feels like 2 seat, mid engined and light, manual box, is what I want. So having spent some money on the car I have, I may as well use it till it does break!

Ultimately there is no cheap way to do motorsport!

 

[spyderman8]

If you’re looking at a Elise, consider an MR2 as well as they’ll be cheaper - and a bit easier to get in and out of! Got most of my coaching in these two.