Tuning Forks and noises

[zcacogp]

Chaps, 

 

My 987.1 2.7 Cayman has an annoying rattle going over bumps. Smaller bumps particularly. Speed humps are bad, cobbles are worse. Long undulating bumps aren't bad at all. It's a rattle or small clonk type noise, disguised by turning the radio up. Some reading has suggested that the tuning forks on the front could be the culprits. 

My copy of PET for the car suggests that the part number I need is 997 341 043 00, and typing this into Google gets a result from someone called spareto.co.uk, for a "Meyle 416 050 0006 - Track Control Arm" for £51.30p each. I gather that Meyle are a decent aftermarket manufacturer (although the original was probably by TRW), but this price seems a lot cheaper than other suppliers of this part. 

I guess my questions are therefore: 

- Is this the right part for the car? 

- Is Meyle OK or best avoided? 

- Does anyone know anything about spareto.co.uk? 

For reference, the page is here: 

https://spareto.co.uk/products/416-050-0006-track-control-arm

 

Thanks. 

[petemac]

I'm not saying that the tuning forks are not the issue but I would get the car up on ramps if you can and have a closer inspection what you don't want to do is  buy parts that may not be needed, I would also advise you to change both of them if it is what you suggest.

[red rocket]

Sounds like the usual snooker ball knock. There always seem to be various possible causes. I had a similar knock, the cause of which wasn't evident enough even for my local indy to diagnose. In the end, and as i wanted to try some DIY anyway, i decided to do a partial suspension refresh, starting with the 'easy' bits as my skills are limited. I stopped after changing the arb bushes and the drop links which has more or less solved the issue. I would suggest you do likewise, especially if they are still original, see if it works and only progress to tuning forks if necessary. I used Meyle drop links which i got very cheap on ebay and no issues there. Haven't come across spareto before.

[zcacogp]

PeteMac, RedRocket, 

 

Thanks - those are helpful comments. 

Pete, you are right in that I should identify the problem before wading on in and changing parts but I've had it up in the air and can't see anything amiss. It was MOT'd the other day and I specifically asked the MOT guy to see if there was anything that may cause a slight knock and he thought it all looked OK; admittedly he wasn't a specialist in 9*7's but he'll have seen a good number of suspension systems in his time. The tuning forks are an easy thing to change (supposedly) and no need for a re-geo afterwards so for £100 I think they would make sense to change along with the drop  links. 

RR - thanks for the suggestion of drop links and ARB bushes too. It looks like Meyle drop links are about £15 a side from that spareto site and I was planning to do them anyway. I can get decent-quality ARB bushes for about £30/pair so I'll do them too. 

Tuning forks, ARB bushes, drop links and inner tie rods (also necessary) should be a day's entertainment rolling around in the road outside my house. 

 

Thanks again. 

[Buzzlt]

Well FYI I have just ordered some for mine and they arrived yesterday. Mine has had a snooker ball type knock for about the last 10000 miles  from the front left and it has just started on the right. I have replaced most of the other bits so pretty convinced it must be these. The ARB bushes were actually fine on mine even after about 110k. They should be greased so don’t think they wear out particularly unless the grease disappears (probably from too much jet washing). I think you will need a geo afterwards as things will likely move a bit. The car is pretty sensitive to the geo. While you are at it why don’t you do the coffin arms the bushes in those have probably had it by now if you haven’t done them before. The control arms seam to be common to all 987’s and 997’s. The coffin arms are definitely different and I have previously posted as to the right one’s for my car at least as it took me ages to work out.

Unfortunately just out of hospital so mine will have to wait a bit.... happy spannering! 

[Buzzlt]

I got mine here

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222460173178

Also from what I read Porsche were originally supplied from Meyle and TRW I think.

[red rocket]

41 minutes ago, Buzzlt said:

ARB bushes were actually fine on mine even after about 110k. They should be greased so don’t think they wear out particularly unless the grease disappears

I thought mine were ok in as far as they didn't seem to be loose but this was the state of them after 13 years

[zcacogp]

Buzzit, RR, 

 

Thanks. Coffin arms are the last 'biggie' on the front (apart from the shocks) but I'm seeing this as a 'minor refresh' and new coffin arms make it more major. I'm aware that I've spent quite a lot on the car since I bought it and would like to keep a few pennies back. 

An alignment is certainly something that should be done; the time since it was last done and the new inner tie rods will mean that it could be some way out. Perhaps I'll change the forks, drop links and tie rods and see how the noises are. If they are gone then I'll have a full alignment done; if they remain then I'll just have the tracking done and do the coffin arms as well before a full geo. 

Thanks for your help. 

[edc]

Have a look at the proper Meyle and the branded Spyder Performance which are made by Meyle. They have an eBay page or speak to Dean at Eporsch. 

[Buzzlt]

I bought unbranded coffin arms and FYI they were £89 rear and £154 front for each pair - not that expensive really. Although it was a couple of years ago. My ARB bushes look like new compared to those !!

Another vote for Dean here as well. Top bloke and I need to give him a ring for my annual check up. As soon as I can drive 😞 

If you are in this part of the world I do have basic laser alignment tools which seem to work ok but Dean does a better job.

[sa utah]

I’ve just done the whole front end on mine.  Top mounts and bearings, dampers, drop links, Arbs , coffin arms and tuning forks and steering arms/!trackrod ends.  
 

That cured my snooker ball noises and wandering tendencies. Don’t ask which bit as they were all knackered.   
 

It’s great now except that the lack of noise from the front end means I can now hear the backend top mounts are shot.   
 

 

 

[Bravestarr]

Can I be nosy and ask how much the front end refresh kit cost in all please?

 

[Deano37]

Watching this with interest, as my next job is to refresh the front suspension.

Can i ask where you are sourcing the ARB bushes, part number 996 343 792 12 ?

Got everything else but struggling to find these in the UK, or do you go straight to Porsche service dept?

Thanks

[Buzzlt]

3 minutes ago, Deano37 said:

Watching this with interest, as my next job is to refresh the front suspension.

Can i ask where you are sourcing the ARB bushes, part number 996 343 792 12 ?

Got everything else but struggling to find these in the UK, or do you go straight to Porsche service dept?

Thanks

Got mine from design 911 about £30 from memory. Might be worth checking the size of your ARB to be sure though.

[zcacogp]

I have a trade supplier who is delivering me some poly bushes for £30 or so. 

 

The size question is a good one; I ordered 25mm front bushes before measuring the bar. Having measured it I think this is the right size but I won't know for sure until I come to fit them! 

[red rocket]

30 minutes ago, Deano37 said:

Watching this with interest, as my next job is to refresh the front suspension.

Can i ask where you are sourcing the ARB bushes, part number 996 343 792 12 ?

Got everything else but struggling to find these in the UK, or do you go straight to Porsche service dept?

Thanks

I got mine direct from OPC for around £20 and no postage charged. Didn't have to worry about part no's/size iirc, just let them supply based on model/year.

[sa utah]

2 hours ago, Bravestarr said:

Can I be nosy and ask how much the front end refresh kit cost in all please?

 

Can’t temper and I’m away at present but the dampers came from design 9 and the coffin arms and tuning forks came from spyder performance Ebay site.  I added the bits to my watch list and they sent me an offer after about a week at a better price which was ideal.  Top mounts etc I can’t remember but if you go onto the relevant parts diagram ( I use the Real.oem site and the Porsche link from that) you can find all the part numbers 

[Deano37]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I will give our local OPC a call over the weekend.

[zcacogp]

Bit of an update: had mine up in the air yesterday and changed the tie rod ends as they were an advisory on the last couple of MOT's before I bought the car. Did both inner and outer with parts from Spareto (https://spareto.co.uk/). Changing them was surprisingly easy; I invested in an inner tie rod change tool which made the job very easy indeed. (If anyone else wants to do this job then I'm quite happy to lend them the tool). 

Did it get rid of the rattling noise over bumps? I don't think so. I think it has improved things but the rattle still seems to be there. I'm not entirely sure as I've only driven a short distance since doing the work and that was with some very rattly things in the car, so not a good time to judge. I'm taking it to an alignment place on Wednesday to check the front end alignment as it will be out with the new tie rods and I'll see what it's like on the way there. 

This means I have a decision; if the noise is still there then I won't want to pay for a full alignment and then change more parts in the near future. However I'm not sure what other parts to change and when. When I had the thing up in the air I had a look at the front ARB drop links and it seems that getting them out of the hub upright is indeed going to be a fight. The old tie rods had a date stamped on them in 2007 which suggests that they were original and I therefore suspect that the suspension has never been changed on the car (57 model, 102,000 miles.) 

I also tried to take the front ARB bushes out. The procedure seems to be to remove the plate that runs above the ARB and then move the ARB and bush upwards, slide the old bush off, slide the new bush on and put it all back together. However when I tried this then the ARB wouldn't move up very high as it fouled on a plastic water pipe. It is necessary to lower the whole of the front alloy subframe to get these bushes out and in or is it possible without disturbing the sub-frame? 

Thanks for your help. 

(An aside: Spareto seemed to be very good. Their prices were very keen and they were very helpful by eMail. Downside is that they are based in Estonia so delivery took five days and was a bit pricey, although this is more than made up for on a large order. Oh and their website isn't the best but they were quick to answer eMails asking for clarification. I'll be using them again and recommend them.) 

[Buzzlt]

Pretty sure that you will find out it’s the tuning forks as replaced most of the other parts on mine as well but the noise generated by them being faulty would be most evident over cobbles.

You can do the anti roll bar bushes by just un bolting (Bending up) or removing the plate above them but if you are doing the tuning forks at the same time you can take it out anyway. It’s a little bit of a pig to get it back in and might need a bit of a tap in the right place but you don’t need to drop the subframe or remove any plastic.

I fitted the Meyle ones and they are very nice.

Have a look through the “what have you done to your 987” thread as posted about it on there.

On reflection if I was doing any of this work again I would do both of the arms (tuning and coffin) at the same time as they seam to have about the same life cycle. ARB bushes and rods my be a bit more pot (hole) luck as far as I know mine have never been done at 115 ish k

I think I read somewhere spyder performance do a kit for a reasonable price, so maybe give Dean at Eporsch (spyder) a ring and see what it costs.

 

[red rocket]

42 minutes ago, zcacogp said:

. It is necessary to lower the whole of the front alloy subframe to get these bushes out and in or is it possible without disturbing the sub-frame? 

No it's not. I did exactly what Buzzlt suggests above - loosen bolt through tuning fork then bend the plate over the bush upwards. NB remove the drop link from the arb first. 

Changing the bushes and the drop links (I used Meyle too) seems to have pretty much cured the knocking on mine even though I couldn't detect any movement in those parts  beforehand.

[Buzzlt]

Don’t think I removed the drop links but I do remember that you have to be careful of any tension in the roll bar. So it might be a good idea. You can’t jack up one side to do one at time. I can’t remember but think I might have done wit the car on the ground and just turned the wheel outward. Otherwise I would have jacked it all up and or use a jack under the wheel hub to help take any tension out or get it where I wanted it.

My old tuning forks have a load of play in them now that you can feel off the car anyway.

[zcacogp]

Chaps, 

Thanks for the answers - most useful. I'm planning the best way forward at the moment given that I have new ARB bushes for the front which aren't fitted, new tie rods on the car (but unaligned) and I'm not going to have much chance to work on the car again before a long journey in a month or so's time. 

I'll take the car for an alignment as planned this week and see how far out everything is. I'll then put a time in the diary in a couple of month's time and do battle with the drop links and try and change the ARB bushes as changing these won't affect the alignment significantly. If this resolves the noises then all well and good. If not then I'll bite the bullet and have the coffin arms and tuning forks changed - either DIY or pay someone to do it. 

FWIW I didn't remove the drop  link from the ARB. That sounds like a good idea. 

Buzzit - avoiding tension in the ARB when doing the bushes is a very helpful comment, thanks. This could have been my failing; I removed the top plates but had one side jacked and the other on the floor while trying to do the job. Doing it with both sides on the ground would be a great idea but access would be very limited. I suspect I'll end up jacking both sides and putting them on stands as you say. 

(An aside but does anyone have a good picture of the suitable jacking points on the underside of the car? There is one at the front of the sills and there is one near the back of the sills. Are there any others? I often jack on suspension hard points but these aren't accessible on the 987 without first removing the undertray). 

Thanks for your help. 

[Lennym1984]

As a fellow Cayman owner, it may be worth checking the following:

Heatshields under the car - I can guarantee you that at least one of the fixings will be rusted out (you'll see what I mean). A coke can can be used to make oversized washers

Rear hatch bumpers, try screwing them in/out

Rear hatch stops (the plastic things half way along). Try putting a bit of foam tape on them

Rear lock adjustment (I haven't done this but am told that it sometimes needs doing). 

Rear hatch weight (Google "cayman trunk clunk"). I haven't needed to do this but many have apparently

Third brake light (this sounds like a trim rattle rather than a clunk). Wedge a bit of foam in the gap

All of these will cause rattles and clunks over bumps

 

[zcacogp]

@Lennym1984 - thanks, those are helpful things to look at. I had another thread going about a flapping noise from the rear which I did a few things about but has taken a back seat for now. 

Another common cause of noise in the rear of the Cayman is the rear hatch struts; they can wear and rattle. Also the balljoints where they clip onto the body of the car and the hatch lid seem to be ungreased and these wear and rattle; removing them, cleaning with a solvent and re-assembling with some thick grease in helps quieten things down a lot. The same applies to the struts for the front hatch (over the froot); removing these, cleaning the end fittings and re-assembling with some grease makes things move much more smoothly.