Tuning Forks and noises

[Lennym1984]

That's super helpful. My rear struts are okay noise wise but I like the idea of cheap preventative maintenence

[zcacogp]

I hesitate to say this on this forum but the engineering of the hatch struts and the joints on the end of them is decidedly ... cheap. 

[Menoporsche]

I wonder if like other Porsche parts they are VAG parts bin items, so either available at half price, or possibly there is a better version available from say an Audi A6 (assuming the ends can be replaced, not just the whole strut)

[zcacogp]

It's more the design and manufacture of the brackets attached to the bodywork and the hatch lid. Neither are very nicely made. Neither were thickly painted (on either side, front or rear). Neither had any form of bush to relieve the wear and neither seemed to have been lubricated (if they ever had been lubricated then it had long since disappeared 12 years later). You may expect such penny-pinching on a very cheap far-eastern hatchback but it seemed a bit miserly on a more up-market brand. 

[red rocket]

23 hours ago, zcacogp said:

An aside but does anyone have a good picture of the suitable jacking points on the underside of the car? There is one at the front of the sills and there is one near the back of the sills. Are there any others? I often jack on suspension hard points but these aren't accessible on the 987 without first removing the undertray). 

There's a Youtube vid on how to jack, albeit a 986, made by a BoXanetter i believe. Good thing however is, if you jack using the rear point , the front end lifts thus allowing you to stick axle stands under the front jack point. Then do same on othee side. That's how i did my suspension work.

[½cwt]

On 3/9/2020 at 5:30 PM, Menoporsche said:

I wonder if like other Porsche parts they are VAG parts bin items, so either available at half price, or possibly there is a better version available from say an Audi A6 (assuming the ends can be replaced, not just the whole strut)

Just did my 986 boot struts with Monroe (not mugs in the damper/strut game) OEM spec at about 30% of the Porsche part number from an OPC.  Just about £12 a piece.

[zcacogp]

Update: this thread started when I was suffering from some noises at the front of my 987. I changed the tie rods (out and inner, both sides) as they had been an advisory on the last couple of MOT's but the noise is still there. It's improved, but still there. 

I took the car in to be aligned this morning. It was done by a Lotus place I have used before (Rapid Mechanical Services in Romford - who are excellent!) and the good news is that I got things pretty much right by eye when I did the new rods, and the rest of the car wasn't far out either. They tweaked the front and rear roe and that was about it. They also test drove it and said that the noise was probably drop links as it is a patter and rattle on uneven surfaces at low speed (above about 40 and it is all nice and quiet). They would have a bash at changing them for £70/hour but wouldn't be drawn on how long it would take. 

I happened to be close to my local Porsche indie later on in the day so dropped in to see him (Jon at Tower Porsche). He also said that a cyclical rattle on uneven surfaces was likely to be drop links and would have a go at them for £112/hour. 

Given the depths of my wallet (deep, but sadly those depths are empty) I'm inclined to have a go at it myself. I had the nut off the N/S/F ARB drop link at the weekend when I did the tie rods and the nut played ball very easily, but the drop link wouldn't move when tapped fairly hard with a hammer. I therefore think I need some wisdom on how to get them out. Given that it seems to be a common problem then I'll start a new thread for it but thanks very much for your help on this one! 

[Glosrich]

Hi zcacogp,

As a fellow Cayman owner I would say do the tuning forks first. Meyle ones £84 each +VAT

https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod132856/Control-Arm-Lower-Front-Porsche-987---987C---997_2_2/

I did mine last year and it stopped all the rattling at the front, the ARB bushes are so tightly held in the subframe they dont wear much, and the droplinks usually require cutting off as the bolts are rusty, where as the tuning forks are easy to change.

There is one nut and bolt on the coffin arm and one on the front of the subframe, I had to slacken the subframe front bolt a couple of turns to help get the tuning fork in and out. Use threadlock on the bolts and torque them up afterwards.

[Boxtop]

I will second Glosrich here and highly recommend you attack the “tuning forks” next.  My 07 987.1 BS was making the same “front suspension knocking sounds at low speeds over small bumps”.  I did nothing but replace the tuning forks and the sound was gone.  As Glosrich indicated, it was an easy repair.  I used the Meyles as well.  

[zcacogp]

Glosrich, Boxtop, 

Thanks. Tuning forks are a distinct possibility and next on my list of things to tackle if the ARB drop links don't turn out to be the culprits. (Incidentally Meyle tuning forks are even cheaper at £54 incl. VAT here: https://spareto.co.uk/products/416-050-0006-track-control-arm ). Do you need to have an alignment done if the tuning forks are changed? 

However for now I have a bee in my bonnet about the drop links so I need to change them first! 

Thanks for your help. I'll keep this thread updated. 

[Glosrich]

No alignment required for the tuning forks , the ARB bushes or the droplinks.

Its only going to be the top mounts, spring, shocks or coffin arms removal what would require that.

Worth having a breaker bar or a bar you can slip over your socket arm as the tuning fork bolts are fairly tight, the extra leverage works wonders.

The anti roll bar bolts are 15mm with 15mm nuts, I torqued these to 50 Nm.

The control arm to subframe bolt is 18mm and I torqued this to 130Nm with Loctite threadlock also.

The control arm to coffin arm bolt is 18mm, and the nut is 21mm, a socket or ring spanner will not fit as the bottom of the shock is too close. Also torqued to 130Nm with Loctite threadlock also.

I slightly loosened the front subframe bolt to allow the new arms to slip in easier, this was a 16mm bolt. Also torqued to 130Nm with Loctite threadlock also.

[sa utah]

I had similar noises but through past experience just cracked on and did the whole front end in one go.  Top mounts, dampers, droplinks, arb bushes, steering linkages etc.  
It’s spot on now and silent 

[Jonners]

Evening gents, 

I've got a slight clunk from the front end, already have some droplinks arriving this week. Will also get some arb buses ordered. If that doesn't fix it I'll have a go at changing the tuning forks and coffin arms over the winter. 

Quick question, do the bolts need changing or is it OK to reuse the old ones? 

Any specialist tools needed/recommended, or just the usual array of sockets, breaker bar etc? 

Cheers!

[½cwt]

The only bit that needs more oomph than a breaker bar is getting the drop link/pinch bolt out of the upright.  I've done all 4 corners on mine in the last month and the only one that came out without a BIG fight was the one that has been replaced a few yeas ago.  If they are original they are almost chemically welded in and will need heat.  I invested in an magnetic induction heater and each bolt finally surrendered with a lot of help form a breaker bar to start and then a decent impact wrench woring in both directions, it is a plane shaft to any vibration in either direction helps to break it free in a bout 10-15 minutes.  You have to cut the ball end off the drop link which will give good access to the pinch bolt 17mm hex but for your sake do not be tempted to burr this off thinking it will go easily.  Get a 6 sided NOT 12 point impact socket to slowly work it back and forth and then with some heat cycles (about 3 or 4 with 90-120 seconds each with the induction heater on mine) they will eventually go with lots of fine dust coming out too.  If it doesn't start to move before heat then you can use all the Plus Gas and freeze crack spray in the world, it ain't coming out.  Then again you might be lucky and it will come out in a couple of minutes and a good had clout on the end (leave the nut on so you have a bigger target) with a lump hammer but one of mine wouldn't move even with the strut off the car and with a good swing of a 14lb sledge hammer, heat was the only way.

I reused my bolts on the front, on the rear I had no choice as they were similarly corrosion welded into the coffin arm and toe link bushes and had to be cut out. I used a reciprocating saw and blade suitable for stainless steel as they are hardened steel.  If you are really unlucky the bolt in the coffin arm to the sub-frame will be corroded in too but this is less common.

Advice - unless you are really certain the drop links are shot, don't do them.  Keep them for later or send them back.  A clunk is much more likely to be a tuning fork, a high frequency rattle on rough surfaces is a drop link.

@bally4563, @Lennym1984 and @Halfordwill will all attest to this.

[zcacogp]

11 hours ago, ½cwt said:

The only bit that needs more oomph than a breaker bar is getting the drop link/pinch bolt out of the upright.  I've done all 4 corners on mine in the last month and the only one that came out without a BIG fight was the one that has been replaced a few yeas ago.  If they are original they are almost chemically welded in and will need heat.  I invested in an magnetic induction heater and each bolt finally surrendered with a lot of help form a breaker bar to start and then a decent impact wrench woring in both directions, it is a plane shaft to any vibration in either direction helps to break it free in a bout 10-15 minutes.  You have to cut the ball end off the drop link which will give good access to the pinch bolt 17mm hex but for your sake do not be tempted to burr this off thinking it will go easily.  Get a 6 sided NOT 12 point impact socket to slowly work it back and forth and then with some heat cycles (about 3 or 4 with 90-120 seconds each with the induction heater on mine) they will eventually go with lots of fine dust coming out too.  If it doesn't start to move before heat then you can use all the Plus Gas and freeze crack spray in the world, it ain't coming out.  Then again you might be lucky and it will come out in a couple of minutes and a good had clout on the end (leave the nut on so you have a bigger target) with a lump hammer but one of mine wouldn't move even with the strut off the car and with a good swing of a 14lb sledge hammer, heat was the only way.

I reused my bolts on the front, on the rear I had no choice as they were similarly corrosion welded into the coffin arm and toe link bushes and had to be cut out. I used a reciprocating saw and blade suitable for stainless steel as they are hardened steel.  If you are really unlucky the bolt in the coffin arm to the sub-frame will be corroded in too but this is less common.

Advice - unless you are really certain the drop links are shot, don't do them.  Keep them for later or send them back.  A clunk is much more likely to be a tuning fork, a high frequency rattle on rough surfaces is a drop link.

@bally4563, @Lennym1984 and @Halfordwill will all attest to this.

This sounds like wisdom. I'll attest to the fact that the drop links can be UTTER bu99ers to get out - I did the two on the front of mine and both were a fight. The rears are on my shelf waiting for me to find the time to tackle them. 

The comment about drop links producing a high frequency rattle on rough surfaces is helpful diagnostics and certainly was true for mine. What didn't help was that the front ARB bushes produced a similar noise when shot, although more muted. 

[½cwt]

1 hour ago, zcacogp said:

This sounds like wisdom. I'll attest to the fact that the drop links can be UTTER bu99ers to get out - I did the two on the front of mine and both were a fight. The rears are on my shelf waiting for me to find the time to tackle them. 

The comment about drop links producing a high frequency rattle on rough surfaces is helpful diagnostics and certainly was true for mine. What didn't help was that the front ARB bushes produced a similar noise when shot, although more muted. 

ARB bushes are a doddle comparatively and fairly low cost so an easy elimination change.  If you still have high frequency rattling then time to get out all the heavy gear and do the drop links.  Front tuning forks and coffin arms are good value from Spyder Performance on eBay.

[bally4563]

9 hours ago, zcacogp said:

This sounds like wisdom. I'll attest to the fact that the drop links can be UTTER bu99ers to get out - I did the two on the front of mine and both were a fight. The rears are on my shelf waiting for me to find the time to tackle them. 

The comment about drop links producing a high frequency rattle on rough surfaces is helpful diagnostics and certainly was true for mine. What didn't help was that the front ARB bushes produced a similar noise when shot, although more muted. 

I have found in the past with the many I have changed out wether it’s been all the ones I have owned or other peeps Boxta,s

Find a stretch of road that has a number of sleeping policemen, that should identify, drop links, as for control arms ( tuning forks) Pulling hard out of junction with a lock on will generally get them clacking.

Trouble with the rears is that they bolt so far forward you could be convinced it’s coming from the front(ask me how I know!!)

[Ninesomething]

20 hours ago, bally4563 said:

 

Trouble with the rears is that they bolt so far forward you could be convinced it’s coming from the front(ask me how I know!!)

This^