zcacogp Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Guys, Following on from my thread about tuning forks and noises I am now looking at changing the ARB drop links on my 987. It seems that there is a bolted-up end where it links to the ARB, which is a doddle. And there is an end where a mild steel pin goes through the alloy casting of the hub upright, which can be a pig to get moving. I've had the nut off the difficult end of one of the corners of my car and it looked pretty well held in and wouldn't move with a bit of gentle tapping with a hammer. Before I get any more serious I'd value any suggestions about the best way of attacking the thing. Suggestions so far seem to be: - Penetrating fluid. This is a given. I like Plus Gas and have applied it liberally. - Heat. How? Blow torch? I have a plumbers torch which is fairly hot but don't have oxy-acetelyene or the like - An induction coil heater has been suggested. My reservation with this is that it will heat the pin rather than the casting; you want it to be the other way 'round in order that the casting expands to make the hole bigger but the pin stays cool so it doesn't expand as well. - Has anyone tried heating the outside and using a freezer spray on the pin? The idea is that the thermal shock may help. - Hitting it with a hammer. Old fashioned and my concern would be bending the pin, which would make things harder still. - Someone on here suggested making a press to apply constant force. (Sorry, I can't remember who). This is an interesting idea; if anyone had some further thoughts or photos that would be helpful. I like the idea of applying constant force while heating (or cooling) it. I wonder about cutting a piece of scaffold tube such that it fits over the head of the drop link and you could then apply a g-clamp across the end of the tube and the end of the pin, thus pushing it nice and straight back through the hole, but have yet to look closely to see if this is possible - My Porsche indie suggested loosening the drop link nut and driving the car over a rough bit of road to try and vibrate it off. Anyone ever tried this? - Drilling the pin out would be a last resort. I'd be happy to try this but would be worried about wandering out from the hard steel of the pin into the softer alloy and ruining the hub upright. Any more ideas? Both BF and I or more refined - I'm happy to hear them all! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red rocket Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Pretty sure i simply knocked mine out with a hammer. It seemed pretty stuck initially but responded to force! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted March 11, 2020 Report Share Posted March 11, 2020 Mine were well and truly stuck and I resorted to drilling out the rear ones. The front ones I managed to get out by cutting off the ARB ball joint so that you can get a socket onto the nut behind it and then using a Lidl cordless impact wrench to loosen it. Once it started to move, a combination of a breaker bar and whacking the other end with a BFH eventually got it out. I left the nut on the end of the thread to give a better target and prevent distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Remove the whole hub, trust me if it is truly seized and the only way you can apply some real force, it will be stuck fast on the shank end, you can cut out sections on the slotted part of the hub and drive the threaded part through cutting as you go, just leaving the shank part to drill out, but again with hub removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Mine were stuck solid the only way to move them without dismantling the hub is to cut off the drop link to leave the hex free to put a breaker bar on. Then turn it to break the corrosion. Next put an impact on and work it back and forth after a few turns you will be able to put it in reverse and wind them out. The first one I tried everything heat, hitting, swearing and it took me 4-5 hours, using the above method each one came out in under 10 mins make sure you put plenty of anti seize on the new ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 It’s useful to understand what is holding the droplink in place. The steel in the droplink reacts with the aluminium hub to produce a white oxide which expands to hold the link solid. For this reason, I’m not sure penetrating fluid will do much good unless it contains something to dissolve this oxide. Using the impact wrench sends shocks through the oxide, breaking it up so that it gradually escape as little puffs of white smoke. Eventually this releases enough pressure in the joint to move it. For really solid joints, this won’t be a quick 5-10 second blast, but minutes. My Lidl gun wasn’t really man enough and it doesn’t work as well now🙁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Guys, Thanks for these. All very helpful. Nobbie, your comments about the Aluminium Oxide build-up are very helpful indeed - thank you. It looks like buying a decent impact gun may be a good idea; it will cost money but will be cheaper than the cost of paying someone to get the things out. Vibration is probably important so I can see that a big impact gun giving it all a good shake will help things along. I suspect that hitting it with a hammer while applying torque will also help. I've done some research and there is quite a lot on the internet about getting steel things out of aluminium castings. One tip that comes up often is that Alum (aluminium potassium sulphate) dissolves steel but not aluminium. It is best applied hot and left to soak so you'd need to make some form of container to hold the stuff in contact with the stud but it sounds promising if all else fails. And buying aluminium potassium sulphate seems to be very cheap - £5 for a decent amount. One easy question: if you cut the drop link off then what size is the hex nut that is left behind (i.e. what size socket would I need to put on it)? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfordwill Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Mine were stuck solid the only way to move them without dismantling the hub is to cut off the drop link to leave the hex free to put a breaker bar on. Then turn it to break the corrosion. Next put an impact on and work it back and forth after a few turns you will be able to put it in reverse and wind them out. The first one I tried everything heat, hitting, swearing and it took me If you are going to do some home DIY an impact gun won’t go amiss, I use an air gun and bought a big compressor which helps a lot, more than you might at first think the nuts I recall are the same size as the hexagon and a 1mm slitting disk will be though the joint in a couple of seconds I think around 15mm but please check first. My old links were a different size to the new ones my local OPC told me that that’s how they remove the drop links, as Nobbie said there is a lot of white oxide in there and it has to be broken, I think you might have to leave them soaking for a long time for any solution to work! Make sure you buy the six sided impact bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 How thick is the shaft of the rod that goes through the housing? Or, to put it another way, is there any risk of twisting off the hexagon head if you put a long breaker bar on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 If it's seized solid , you may wish you could have saved hours and grief and just pulled the hub after 20 mins of attempting in situ and or , for hours with no outcome . Thre nuts holding strut in , track rod end, bottom wishbone bolt, tuning fork bolt , caliper off and sensors and bottom ARB, work at your leisure on the floor, 30 mins tops.(for the front) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted March 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 I'm hoping it doesn't come to that but thanks - that's a good point. Do you lose the alignment if you take the hub upright out? And isn't the bottom bolt (onto the coffin arm) one of the other ones that often gives a load of grief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 It should not need alignment, ( mark the position of the three strut mount nuts)and yes bottom wishbone bolt can also seize in , this one I’m rebuilding had both wishbone bolts seized in and all four drop links!! But whilst you are at it you may as well fully sort in my books, you could just be putting something off for another day, to be fair this is the first car I have done that’s bitten me bad, and only due to it standing for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted March 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2020 Slight update: I had it up in the air over the weekend with the wheel off and had a crack at the N/S/F ARB drop link. Getting the bottom joint off (ARB to drop link) wasn't too bad but I couldn't shift the top one (strut to drop link). I hit it with a hammer, heated the strut, emptied half a can of freezer crack-it spray onto the end of the pin and all I got was epic clouds of steam. Or smoke. I'm not sure which. It wasn't going to shift. The bolt head on the end of it is 17mm and I tried putting a 17mm open-end spanner on it but (not surprisingly) it wouldn't turn. I've bought an air impact gun and some impact sockets and the next step is to cut the drop link off and apply the gun to the end. However I don't want to do this just yet as it's drivable at the moment but if I do cut the ARB off then I won't want to take it any much further than a garage who can help me out if I can't get it apart, and currently I don't think that garages are working due to self-isolation. This therefore may well be left to some point in the future when everything is back to normal (or nearer to normal). I'll keep this thread updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03slatt Posted March 24, 2020 Report Share Posted March 24, 2020 I have recently changed all my Drop links as well as most other suspension components, the droplinks took the longest. I cut the ball end off the drop link so I could get an impact wrench (not driver) with a socket on the end and bashed the other end with a hammer and a drift, once I had the tools (angle grinder, impact wrench) it only took 10 mins but before I spent a few hours on just one droplink. Hope this helps. Also you should be OK driving without droplink as long as you go steady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 It's just Sod's law, just lowered a friends 987 for him 2005 plate done 18k from new, so it's done a lot of standing around, and I could of pushed them out with my little finger!!!! And these had no anti seize on ( they do now , after putting all back together) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted March 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 @03slatt, @bally4563, Thanks. Sounds like cutting the end off is the way forward. But it will have to wait until garages are open again as I don't want an immobilised car in the meantime. Thanks for the comment about it being OK to carefully drive without the drop links. That was my conclusion as well. I was concerned that if the ARB ends were unsupported then it could droop down and cause mischief but I don't think this will be a problem. Bally - sods law indeed! Why were those ones so loose? And what sort of anti-seize did you use - copaslip or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 11 hours ago, zcacogp said: @03slatt, @bally4563, Thanks. Sounds like cutting the end off is the way forward. But it will have to wait until garages are open again as I don't want an immobilised car in the meantime. Thanks for the comment about it being OK to carefully drive without the drop links. That was my conclusion as well. I was concerned that if the ARB ends were unsupported then it could droop down and cause mischief but I don't think this will be a problem. Bally - sods law indeed! Why were those ones so loose? And what sort of anti-seize did you use - copaslip or something else? Just butter up with Copaslip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted September 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 Update: job done. On the fronts at least. And the tip of cutting the balljoint off to expose the hex head which you then turn with a big extension bar was exceptionally useful - thank you very much. It was still a pig of a job, and took a LOT of force and time. More time than I'd care to admit. The N/S one just took a lot of twisting with the breaker bar and hitting with a (big) hammer. The O/S one just didn't want to know, and I had to drill it lengthways with a nice sharp drill, AND heat it with a blowtorch, AND twist it, AND hit it, all at the same time. (OK, Mrs zcacogp helped with the hitting). New parts are in with lots of copaslip and hopefully it will be easier next time I come to do the job. I changed the disks and ARB bushes at the same time. Kept the same pads as they were nearly new, although the disks were entirely worn out - it seems that the previous owner paid to have new pads fitted to very old disks, which is a bit odd. I also removed the tin plates that are behind the disks. Does anyone know what these are for? On a 944 they were generally accepted to do very little and the advice was to remove them and aid disk cooling slightly. Are things the same with the 987? The test-drive showed the front end as feeling slightly more pointy than before (and it was pretty good already), although there are still vestiges of a drop link like rattle to be heard. It's much improved but not entirely solved. My best suggestion is to change the rears and not get too excited until that's happened, unless anyone has any other ideas. Thanks again for your help. The suggestion of cutting off the ball joint was a top one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted September 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 Oh, I should add that I bought an air impact gun to do the job but it uses so much air that my compressor struggles to keep up! However the job was possible without it and I'll keep it until I have a better compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Anyone looking for a magnetic induction heater mentioned in this thread, currently (17 October 2020) £179.99 on Amazon with extra £10 voucher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bally4563 Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, ½cwt said: Anyone looking for a magnetic induction heater mentioned in this thread, currently (17 October 2020) £179.99 on Amazon with extra £10 voucher. I am do you have a link to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninesomething Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 I feel quite guilty. Mine more or less fell out. Feel like I haven't paid my boxster dues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted October 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, JonSta said: I feel quite guilty. Mine more or less fell out.... No need to feel guilty, but as penance you can come and change the rear ones on mine. |I want to have them done in the next couple of weeks so let me know when suits you to come over and do them. I'll make the tea. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninesomething Posted October 17, 2020 Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Have to own up a bit more and say I took it to the local garage. By the time I'd looked up the torque settings on my phone he'd got the first one off. Second one took about 6 minutes. No special tools. 😗 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcacogp Posted October 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2020 Well that's double-penance then! You can change the gear oil and brake fluid too, and see what you can do with the slight coolant leak which appeared after I changed the water pump. If you are lucky I'll let you do the work in the garage rather than forcing you to do it outside in the rain. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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