Clutch and IMS

[½cwt]

1 hour ago, edc said:

I think it's perception and research that's the issue for the cheaper bearings. Indy's can point to a marketing backed product and company for the aftermarket bearings aimed at the IMS market. 

The other bearings although from the main bearing manufacturers are effectively untried and untested. It would take a brave indy to say this is the same spec bearing that Porsche would have built your engine with. 

Unless you stumble across the NSK original as new old stock...  If you do, buy all they ahve and go into business!

[TROOPER88]

9 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Unless you stumble across the NSK original as new old stock...  If you do, buy all they ahve and go into business!

Remember the link you sent me for the bearing supplier, that was the identical bearing wasn't it? I gave you the exact numbers from the bearing I removed (think it was £45)

[edc]

My old bearing is stamped 10G1

 

 

[½cwt]

4 hours ago, edc said:

My old bearing is stamped 10G1

 

 

That's a single row if from an Anni, yes?  Any manufacture's name or initials on it too?  Would help with research if you have.  Also inner, outer diameters and the bearing thickness.

[½cwt]

8 hours ago, TROOPER88 said:

Remember the link you sent me for the bearing supplier, that was the identical bearing wasn't it? I gave you the exact numbers from the bearing I removed (think it was £45)

It was identical but not NSK IIRC.

[TROOPER88]

1 hour ago, ½cwt said:

It was identical but not NSK IIRC.

Have you tried searching for identical bearings? 

[½cwt]

1 minute ago, TROOPER88 said:

Have you tried searching for identical bearings? 

You mean this one? 

Deep groove ball bearing - double rows bd20-17-a-ddua17nx01-nsk - 20x4 (123bearing.co.uk)

[TROOPER88]

7 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

You mean this one? 

Deep groove ball bearing - double rows bd20-17-a-ddua17nx01-nsk - 20x4 (123bearing.co.uk)

Farcial £38

The whole IMS thing really is a circus!!

That is identical to the one I removed 

[½cwt]

4 minutes ago, TROOPER88 said:

Farcical £38

The whole IMS thing really is a circus!!

That is identical to the one I removed 

Absolutely.  Pick one or more of lazy, scared or profiteering for the places fitting the £1000+ kits particularly if they are fitting them to dual row bearing older cars that have much less risk of failure....

[TROOPER88]

51 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

Absolutely.  Pick one or more of lazy, scared or profiteering for the places fitting the £1000+ kits particularly if they are fitting them to dual row bearing older cars that have much less risk of failure....

Exactly 

I think I paid £500 for the EPS one plus £200 maybe for the engine locking tools and puller. 

[McDonald]

1 hour ago, ½cwt said:

You mean this one? 

Deep groove ball bearing - double rows bd20-17-a-ddua17nx01-nsk - 20x4 (123bearing.co.uk)

So with a group buy, we could probably bring it down to £35.00 a pop. And everyone will want it when they renew their clutch. We just need one Porsche specialist indie to agree to fit them at owners risk.

Form an orderly queue gentlemen.

[S14]

Hi,

When I bought my 2004 986S, I had the clutch, flywheel, RMS and IMS bearing replaced, by an Indy. This was over three years ago, and the cost was significantly more expensive than Revolution Porsche that is mentioned earlier in this thread.😢

Below is the bearing that was removed. At the price I paid, I was half expecting to see Rolex stamped on it.

[McDonald]

It doesn't have a nice Bevel, doesn't have an attractive stainless steel bracelet & doesn't even work underwater. 

[TROOPER88]

39 minutes ago, S14 said:

Hi,

When I bought my 2004 986S, I had the clutch, flywheel, RMS and IMS bearing replaced, by an Indy. This was over three years ago, and the cost was significantly more expensive than Revolution Porsche that is mentioned earlier in this thread.😢

Below is the bearing that was removed. At the price I paid, I was half expecting to see Rolex stamped on it.

Thats is it! A £45 part

A double roll IMSB and indeed you are correct, Revolution list it at circa 2k but most places are a lot more.

 

 

[edc]

Same single row as came out of mine a few years ago. Same 10G1 marking.

[edc]

4 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Absolutely.  Pick one or more of lazy, scared or profiteering for the places fitting the £1000+ kits particularly if they are fitting them to dual row bearing older cars that have much less risk of failure....

I don't think they are profiteering as such unless they are adding big margins on the material but they aren't. 

[edc]

5 hours ago, ½cwt said:

That's a single row if from an Anni, yes?  Any manufacture's name or initials on it too?  Would help with research if you have.  Also inner, outer diameters and the bearing thickness.

It was 5+ years ago. Not even sure if I have the beating any more but you can see from the pics and my old post I identified it as an NSK. The pics confirm its single row. 

[½cwt]

That's great @S14, gives the bearing number 6204DU.  6204 is 20mm bore, 47mm diameter and 14mm thick DU is double rubber sealed.  You can get a premium brand like FAG for under £8.  See why Porsche swapped, only 20% of the cost dual row predecessor so made the accountant happy.  Wonder how much it cost in warranty claims and legal costs particularly in the US.  Probably a false economy on their part.....

Why are we only working this out some 15 to 20 years since the problem started??  I'm not that good an engineer or detective.

Edited April 14, 2021 by ½cwt

[½cwt]

13 minutes ago, edc said:

I don't think they are profiteering as such unless they are adding big margins on the material but they aren't. 

OK still one or both of the first two then, particularly as we have now discovered that the original is a £8 bearing!  Albeit possibly prone to a higher rate of failure if you just go like for like.  I wonder if a metal shielded rather than rubber sealed bearing would give a longer life, but alas I have no R&D budget.

[edc]

There are some old posts around the time I posted my bearing with equivalent bearing parts numbers from the usual NSK, FAG etc.

[edc]

Search 6204, NSK, SKF and there are plenty of old posts with bearing types and specs. 

[½cwt]

9 hours ago, edc said:

There are some old posts around the time I posted my bearing with equivalent bearing parts numbers from the usual NSK, FAG etc.

OK, noted.  I'll make it my mission to give the info as soon as IMSB questions come up.  It will allow more informed decision making by owners.

The next step it to understand the mode and cause of failure of the single row bearings.  It seems it is partly down to the seals failing and allowing thinner engine oil to replace the sealed in grease so by conjecture I imagine that the bearings and race no longer have the correct lubrication film thickness and support leading to movement, pitting and then eventual facture.  As a dual row has two parallel races there is more support (roughly double) for the race and it is maintained in alignment so the impact of any drop in lubrication performance is largely mitigated by its design.

[edc]

There was previously an IMS sticky post which pulled all this and some FAQ type questions together. It seems to have gone though. 

[Elmer Fudd]

What do we think of this ........ https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Filter-Adapter-2-Filter-For-Porsche-996-997-986-911-Carrera-Boxster-Cayman/372168267372?epid=1878138677&hash=item56a6f5166c:g:gHgAAOSwRUhY-2qn

Supposed to help save the IMSB from destruction?

[deanmr2]

1 hour ago, Elmer Fudd said:

What do we think of this ........ https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Filter-Adapter-2-Filter-For-Porsche-996-997-986-911-Carrera-Boxster-Cayman/372168267372?epid=1878138677&hash=item56a6f5166c:g:gHgAAOSwRUhY-2qn

Supposed to help save the IMSB from destruction?

You would not be able to check for any metal or plastic pieces floating about your engine without the paper element filter that is standard on our cars at oil change time so don’t see the point of the metal screw on type filter