Tick tick boom!

[ATM]

19 hours ago, Nobbie said:

The usual catch is that once they have your engine apart they find it is not suitable for reconditioning and start adding charges for replacement parts. At that point, they have you over a barrel as what are you going to do, ask for your engine back in bits? 
 

Could be an Issue with the crankshaft on this one, so need to discuss this prior to giving them the engine and get it in writing. There are a lot of crooks in engine re manufacturing.

“If our technicians assess your vehicle as requiring extra work a member of our team will always contact you for authorisation/estimate prior to any works being carried out.“
 

I spoke to someone selling a 996 3.4 a couple years ago. Longer story but what's relevant here is ...

Well known indie - not mentioning any names as it's not relevant - had removed the engine for rebuild. They had inspected the parts. They found the crank was out of spec and recommended a replacement. After 4 or 5 weeks a used crank had been found but upon inspection was also out of spec. A brand new crank was like 4 or 5k - can't remember. Definitely started to push the numbers higher and into the realms of hang on a minute. 

So seller told me out of spec cranks is common but no one tells you until you are half way down this road. The seller was now considering either to wait for another used crank to be found which wasn't out of spec - apparently unlikely - or sell to someone as an ongoing project as is.

So long story short - until you take an engine to pieces and start measuring you have no idea what you will find. The scenario where everything is perfect and reusable is probably not as likely as the one where some stuff is junk. Even if the engine was fine before. 

A decent rebuild isn't cheap so you need to be sure the bits you're using are good. Would you really want to carry on if the crank was only slightly out of spec?

 

Now the sceptic in me -

If you send a perfect engine to a cheap rebuild shop and they rip it to pieces and then find, surprise surprise, the crank is out of spec, you have no idea if that was your crank in the first place. We can source you another crank for - insert random number here. Or you can have your engine sent back in cardboard boxes and in pieces containing the out of spec crank. They have managed to swap an out of spec crank for a good one and got paid for doing so. 

[TV8]

Here is the fag paper costs for the conversion kit here: https://www.986booster.com/enhancedrepowerkit

The question is, how fast do you want to go @phazed  

When developing the kit we'd used the following as a "project cost" to assess how feasible it was: 

 

- 2.5L Boxster ideally with engine failure - £2000 - £3000

- Enhanced Kit - £2500

- MOT Fail (corrosion) Audi TT 225 - £1000 - £1250

- PWR Booster Chargecooler Kit - £950

- Hybrid K06 Mod on existing K04 TT Turbo - £570

- Hoses, Fittings and related (assuming all new silicone) - £900

- Clutch Kit (B5 RS4) - £370

- Ignition ECU - £1000

- MAC Three Port Boost Control Valve - £75

- Bespoke downpipe, midpipe with 200 cell CAT and modified Boxster silencer - £750

 

This gets you a circa 300bhp/300ftlbs Boxster for £10K - £11K. You can do it for well under £10K if you use a standard ME7.5 ECU with an immob delete but the above spec gives you a lot of options for future development. For example whilst the engine is out you could fit steel rods, retaining the standard pistons, with fresh big end bearings and then do 350bhp/300ftlbs on the above setup with excellent reliability. Fit some forged pistons too and 360bhp/320ftlbs is within the hybrid K06/K04 capability but at that point fitting a G25 Turbo and matching manifold will provide options for well over 400bhp. 

 

[phazed]

Already going through my brain Graham!

[phazed]

3 hours ago, ATM said:

I spoke to someone selling a 996 3.4 a couple years ago. Longer story but what's relevant here is ...

Well known indie - not mentioning any names as it's not relevant - had removed the engine for rebuild. They had inspected the parts. They found the crank was out of spec and recommended a replacement. After 4 or 5 weeks a used crank had been found but upon inspection was also out of spec. A brand new crank was like 4 or 5k - can't remember. Definitely started to push the numbers higher and into the realms of hang on a minute. 

So seller told me out of spec cranks is common but no one tells you until you are half way down this road. The seller was now considering either to wait for another used crank to be found which wasn't out of spec - apparently unlikely - or sell to someone as an ongoing project as is.

So long story short - until you take an engine to pieces and start measuring you have no idea what you will find. The scenario where everything is perfect and reusable is probably not as likely as the one where some stuff is junk. Even if the engine was fine before. 

A decent rebuild isn't cheap so you need to be sure the bits you're using are good. Would you really want to carry on if the crank was only slightly out of spec?

 

Now the sceptic in me -

If you send a perfect engine to a cheap rebuild shop and they rip it to pieces and then find, surprise surprise, the crank is out of spec, you have no idea if that was your crank in the first place. We can source you another crank for - insert random number here. Or you can have your engine sent back in cardboard boxes and in pieces containing the out of spec crank. They have managed to swap an out of spec crank for a good one and got paid for doing so. 

That’s a bit cynical… not impossible though. Hmm.

[ATM]

30 minutes ago, phazed said:

That’s a bit cynical… not impossible though. Hmm.

The one in my example was worn around the main bearings I think - something like that. I did Google it to see if it could be repaired or fixed. Some cranks can have extra metal added then machined back to spec. But no one offers this on Porsche cranks - none that I could find. 

[phazed]

Yep. I believe some specialists can spray them with metal and then machine back. What the longevity is like I really don’t know.
I don’t see why the crankshaft prices should be so high. It was only a few years ago when I had a special V8 cranks snap on my TVR. It cost me 500 pounds for a brand new crankshaft blank and another 1200 pounds to machine it to the right dimensions. considering it wasn’t mass produced, you would think the cost should have been higher.

[ATM]

1 hour ago, phazed said:

I don’t see why the crankshaft prices should be so high.

L

O

L

 

Porsche Tax

 

Porsche still sell new manual gearboxes for the 996. Cost is 13 grand. That's a basic simple manual. Nothing clever. I think they sell 996 short blocks for 8 grand or more - can't remember - no heads just the lower / central rotating bits and the block. Probably plus VAT. You get the idea.

[Paul P]

1 hour ago, phazed said:

Yep. I believe some specialists can spray them with metal and then machine back. What the longevity is like I really don’t know.
I don’t see why the crankshaft prices should be so high. It was only a few years ago when I had a special V8 cranks snap on my TVR. It cost me 500 pounds for a brand new crankshaft blank and another 1200 pounds to machine it to the right dimensions. considering it wasn’t mass produced, you would think the cost should have been higher.

A long time ago in a galaxy far away I had a recon motorcycle engine that had been through the spray and machine process.  
 

lasted about 7 month / 2k miles.  1 month longer than the warranty.  
 

Yeah tech moves on but once bitten.  

[greenman986s]

In the Jan '24 edition of "911 & Porsche World", there was an interesting article on the challenges of replacing a 986 engine

In short, it was not plug'n'play if the replacement is from a different year - the 2004 engine was a M96.23 with 3 (not 5) chains and v7.8 DME whilst the replacment was  a 2000 model M96.22 running with v7.2 DME. Such a swap would also have required a change of wiring loom due to CANBUS on the later models

[Randeep]

On 5/20/2024 at 4:29 PM, greenman986s said:

In the Jan '24 edition of "911 & Porsche World", there was an interesting article on the challenges of replacing a 986 engine

In short, it was not plug'n'play if the replacement is from a different year - the 2004 engine was a M96.23 with 3 (not 5) chains and v7.8 DME whilst the replacment was  a 2000 model M96.22 running with v7.2 DME. Such a swap would also have required a change of wiring loom due to CANBUS on the later models

I got told this, stick to the correct M96 code otherwise it can be a world of expense. I believe the early 987 2.7 was the same engine as the 986 facelift so there are overlaps at times between models, but homework is required to be sure!

[½cwt]

It is a bit of a mine field, the Variocam system changed from step to truly variable and then there's the 5 chain to 3 chain cam drive and also the CANBUS electronics as well as the various DME versions.  If it was a M96.24, you need an M96.24 to avoid a world of pain... (Although a M96.26 from an early 987S might give options but take expert advice)

Edited May 22 by ½cwt

[½cwt]

986 with an M96.24 engine being broken:

Porsche Boxster S 986 Breaking for *1 bolt | eBay

[fizz]

7 hours ago, ½cwt said:

986 with an M96.24 engine being broken:

Porsche Boxster S 986 Breaking for *1 bolt | eBay

I've dropped them a message mate think you for the heads up. 👍

With regards to engine options, the more I research and read takes me down the path of least resistance which goes hand in hand with spending the least amount of labour costs too. 

I've decided to keep the car sorn for a few months in the hope of finding a cheaper engine than the 3.5k one Porsche Heaven Mick currently has.

The issue Is the guys who race the face-lift 986s have raised the value of the M96.24 to silly levels. To the point where perfectly good 03/04 986S cars are being bought as donor cars.

Edited May 22 by fizz

[ATM]

Is there any possibility of you attempting a home brew rebuild?

 

I've always liked the idea myself. But don't have any form of workshop or garage. So feels unlikely right now. I do dream about hiring a good workshop space but don't know if that will ever happen. I can of course dream.

[fizz]

14 minutes ago, ATM said:

Is there any possibility of you attempting a home brew rebuild?

Sadly I don't have the skills, knowhow tools or garage... 🤣

Really want a bloody garage though so I can take my time and tinker with cara but alas "Beggars can't be choosers".

I'm lucky a mate with a new build property who's 5 series doesn't fit in the garage is allowing me to store my car there and sorn it.

[ATM]

48 minutes ago, fizz said:

Sadly I don't have the skills, knowhow tools or garage... 🤣

Really want a bloody garage though so I can take my time and tinker with cara but alas "Beggars can't be choosers".

I'm lucky a mate with a new build property who's 5 series doesn't fit in the garage is allowing me to store my car there and sorn it.

You don't need a garage for SORN. Just off road parking. What a waste.

[fizz]

1 hour ago, ATM said:

You don't need a garage for SORN. Just off road parking. What a waste.

Ohh I know that but dry storage over sat in the drive for weeks in a very green area where my home is. Helps the roof stop going green for a start and allows any damp from the carpets to get dry over summer. 

I used to have some leaks due to the window not closing fully on the drivers side. Will use this as a chance to clean the car up a bit whilst it's sorn.

Edited May 22 by fizz

[Scubaregs]

57 minutes ago, ATM said:

You don't need a garage for SORN. Just off road parking. What a waste.

In what way is it a waste if the garage was sitting unused?

[ATM]

1 hour ago, Scubaregs said:

In what way is it a waste if the garage was sitting unused?

This is called humour.

[Happy Days]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:28 AM, Menoporsche said:

Good luck fizz. 
 

Hey, your car has lasted longer than a 718 manual gearbox…

Several on here have had pricey but happy endings to such stories. 

Oi!!!

[Scubaregs]

18 minutes ago, ATM said:

This is called humour.

These are called emoji's, used to indicate humour.  😂😂

[ATM]

6 minutes ago, Scubaregs said:

These are called emoji's, used to indicate humour.  😂😂

If you need to explain its humour - its not humour.

[Scubaregs]

39 minutes ago, ATM said:

If you need to explain its humour - its not humour.

Unfortunately you did have to explain it.........

[EXY]

3 hours ago, Scubaregs said:

Unfortunately you did have to explain it.........

Only to the idiot 

[Scubaregs]

11 minutes ago, EXY said:

Only to the idiot 

But you understand now. 👏