I'm going to write a letter re Servicing

[Stark]

Now many of you know I had an interim service this week for circa £500 due.

I had a call the same day saying there was close to £1100 worth of extras needed including;

New plugs £400

New belt £300

Engine Air filter £280

Brake fluid change £125

Drainage clearage for roof £70

 

Now if I was rich Porsche man who took what I was told and didn't query anything then I would have been going home and on my way all happy. 

However I queried the plugs and they said they needed doing. But they hadn't checked last summer when the car had a major service and they were changed. Also when I went to pick the car up they had done the brake fluid change. You're right, every 2 years. BUT they didn't check that it had actually been done last summer. 

Potentially they could have had another £550 out of me if I hadn't raised it.

Should I intelligently complain? 

 

 

[rowbos]

2 minutes ago, Stark said:

Now many of you know I had an interim service this week for circa £500 due.

I had a call the same day saying there was close to £1100 worth of extras needed including;

New plugs £400

New belt £300

Engine Air filter £280

Brake fluid change £125

Drainage clearage for roof £70

 

Now if I was rich Porsche man who took what I was told and didn't query anything then I would have been going home and on my way all happy. 

However I queried the plugs and they said they needed doing. But they hadn't checked last summer when the car had a major service and they were changed. Also when I went to pick the car up they had done the brake fluid change. You're right, every 2 years. BUT they didn't check that it had actually been done last summer. 

Potentially they could have had another £550 out of me if I hadn't raised it.

Should I intelligently complain? 

 

 

I would.  If things need doing or you want things doing that maybe someone else would not then fair enough.  But this is not funny and they need to know about it in my opinion.

[Jonttt]

Yes, write a letter to the dealer principle.

I once had BMW carry out a full service on a 7 series when it was due and had been booked in for an interim service. The same dealership had carried out the full service previously themselves. I collected the car as they where closing up and had a massive argument with the service staff refusing to pay for the full service, they threatened to keep the car until payment was made, I just turned around, walked out and drove off in their courtesy car I still had the keys for. I wrote an email of complaint to the principle that night.

The following day I got a full apology and told I did not have to pay anything as it was their mistake.

In the context of your issue I think at best it is negligent of them not to review the cars previous service history bordering on being fraudulent. I would certainly let the dealership principle copied into porsche U.K. Customer service of that fact and see what they do, you have nothing to lose. Customer service and how you perceive them is a massive benchmark for all OPC's with Porsche UK.

[martyn]

Absolutely, as I said in reply to CMA's post yesterday regarding drive belts, they try it on, and yes sometimes it is theft, the only way to keep it down is to report them, so they hesitate in the future (hopefully).

[Daniel Joseph]

Definitely worthy of complaint.  It's one thing to pay up for OPC servicing to ensure your warranty remains valid (or try to ensure goodwill from Porsche in the event of a premature failure post-warranty) but it's quite another to be stung for unnecessary work.  As others have suggested, letter to Dealer Principal, copy to Porsche UK.

[Stark]

Thanks guys. The more I think about it the more I realise they were trying it on.

I'm not stopping at Porsche UK, I'm going to send a letter to Germany too.

Cut a long story short. Years ago had a problematic BMW 650. Went in 25 times for a faulty roof sensor. Suffice to say MD called me one day and gave me a new one with £50,000 off it. Sold it the next day for a Range Rover  

[jimbob2911]

Agreed with above.   Being the MD of several franchised dealerships this is wrong on every level.

personally I would start by writing to the dealership explaining the above and making it clear you are not happy.  

You are prabably going to get a customer satisfaction survey.  I assume Porsche do these.  If they do then mention this.

if you get no joy with dealership, then write to Porsche HO, copying dealership head, string you had tried to get resolve with them but couldn't.

correct way , as sometimes staff at middle level do things that the manager of department or centre principal are not aware of.  By copying Porsche at start can get backs up. 

Pm me if you want any advice on letter.

james 

[mike597]

Probably not deliberately trying to shaft you,  just incompetence on the part of the minimum  wage  numpty they have carrying in out the service work and not checked by the 'so called'  service manager. 

I had something similar once with audi where they changed the plugs when they'd only been changed six months earlier and less than a couple of thousand miles.   They misread the service history and changed them.   I just stated I'm not paying for them take them off the bill.  

 

[Stark]

Minimum wage? Porsche? I think not.....

[mike597]

53 minutes ago, Stark said:

Minimum wage? Porsche? I think not.....

That's exactly what they want you to think.   There's a reason they're so profitable. 

[topradio]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

New plugs £400

New belt £300

Engine Air filter £280

Brake fluid change £125

Drainage clearage for roof £70

This is why I'm seriously thinking about going indi when I have the second service on the 981. We've all got used to Porsche pricing and to some extent accept it as part of owning such a great car. BUT look at that those prices, there can't be more than £200 in parts there (especially at trade price) and that lot comes to £1200. I can guarantee that if you put your car in for service in the morning they will be ringing at midday to say its ready and they will have cleaned it as well (sort of). And with the other service stuff the bill will be 2K or more.

When we had the Merc we used a specialist in Stowmarket called Alex Crow, I don't think we ever got a bill for more than £300 for the annual service in the 5 years or so we used him. He used to actually look at the parts and the mileage and decide if an item needed replacing. Now that's how it should be done IMO. The independent Merc dealer that we sold the car to said that main dealer service costs were almost fraudulent. 

[Stark]

And the car wash was shyatee.....he said well we are not going to be able to reach 'your' detailing standards. I just mentioned the car had lots of water marks all over this.

Do you know what? I'm going to enjoy this dance! The dealer in Mayfair even said it was very out of order. And I'll quote him if I have to

[Daniel Joseph]

3 hours ago, topradio said:

This is why I'm seriously thinking about going indi when I have the second service on the 981. We've all got used to Porsche pricing and to some extent accept it as part of owning such a great car. BUT look at that those prices, there can't be more than £200 in parts there (especially at trade price) and that lot comes to £1200. I can guarantee that if you put your car in for service in the morning they will be ringing at midday to say its ready and they will have cleaned it as well (sort of). And with the other service stuff the bill will be 2K or more.

When we had the Merc we used a specialist in Stowmarket called Alex Crow, I don't think we ever got a bill for more than £300 for the annual service in the 5 years or so we used him. He used to actually look at the parts and the mileage and decide if an item needed replacing. Now that's how it should be done IMO. The independent Merc dealer that we sold the car to said that main dealer service costs were almost fraudulent. 

Hi Eddie, we had a similar experience with our SLK.  The main dealer was incompetent and couldn't fix the numerous faults that afflicted it.  Also,  Mercedes UK completely lost interest and showed no goodwill for premature failures as soon as the car was over three years old and it became obvious that we weren't about to trade it in for another.  I took it to a Mercedes specialist,  Autotechnic in Loddon (south of Norwich) who were infinitely better and much more reasonable in their pricing.

As regards Porsche specialists, a bit of a trek for you, but you could try Autowerke in Norwich.  They do fixed price servicing and looked after my 987 very well for six years  (and continue to do so).  I may well return to them when my car is over three years old, as I am unlikely to extend the warranty, given my very limited mileage.

[Daniel Joseph]

15 minutes ago, Stark said:

And the car wash was shyatee.....he said well we are not going to be able to reach 'your' detailing standards. I just mentioned the car had lots of water marks all over this.

Doesn't that just drive you mad?  I always clean my cars thoroughly before taking them in for servicing.  I hope it sends a subliminal message that the car is cherished and they should treat it accordingly!  After our recent service on the MINI, the car was dirtier after their "valet" than when we dropped it in!

[Paulo123]

5 hours ago, Stark said:

Now many of you know I had an interim service this week for circa £500 due.

I had a call the same day saying there was close to £1100 worth of extras needed including;

New plugs £400

New belt £300

Engine Air filter £280

Brake fluid change £125

Drainage clearage for roof £70

 

Now if I was rich Porsche man who took what I was told and didn't query anything then I would have been going home and on my way all happy. 

However I queried the plugs and they said they needed doing. But they hadn't checked last summer when the car had a major service and they were changed. Also when I went to pick the car up they had done the brake fluid change. You're right, every 2 years. BUT they didn't check that it had actually been done last summer. 

Potentially they could have had another £550 out of me if I hadn't raised it.

Should I intelligently complain? 

 

 

On Porsche fixed price servicing the air filter is included with the major service and that's £615 vs £485 for the minor

so even if you did need one, they should have charged you max £615 for both the service and the air filter . 

The way they worked it out it cost £760 ish 

[cj225]

4 hours ago, mike597 said:

That's exactly what they want you to think.   There's a reason they're so profitable. 

 

4 hours ago, Stark said:

Minimum wage? Porsche? I think not.....

 

Porsche franchises aren't minimum wage at all.

 

Any half decent franchised service advisor should get at least £20k.  A good bonus scheme (company profit) gets you nearer £24k.   An OPC Service Advisor, outside London, should easily be on £24k basic.  Dick Lovett, for example, would probably pay nearer £28k-£30k OTE.

The problem is when you earn it over 8am-6pm (actually starting nearer 7.45 each day and sometimes staying late because some nobber decides to turn up at 5.59pm and then draw out the whole process as long as possible), then working 8am til 1pm every other week (if you're lucky).  All in, it's around a 55 hour week, so the hourly rate isn't fantastic, but it's above minimum wage.  I'm glad I only did it for a short period.

 

It isn't always a job where you're working alongside intelligent people, though, and there's a trend these days to stick girls in customer facing roles like these (for some sort of service uplift sales purpose, I imagine) but those I worked with had no idea about any technical aspect of a car, and even less enthusiasm to learn.   That's where problems like this happen.

[topradio]

Genuine question - what's a 'service advisor' Is he the guy that actually wields the spanners? 

[Daniel Joseph]

5 minutes ago, topradio said:

Genuine question - what's a 'service advisor' Is he the guy that actually wields the spanners? 

Usually not, and that's why I would always sooner go to an indy, where the coffee might be instant or non-existent, but you get to speak to the boss, who is a time-served and experienced mechanic and knows what he's talking about.

[topradio]

The thing is that some absolutely love paying through the nose while drinking free coffee and being smooched by the sales staff, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not something that I feel comfortable with.

Occasionally I will go to an expensive restaurant and pay an extortionate price for fine wine and food. I am happy to do this as a treat and I feel that I am getting an experience that's worth paying for. Some people wouldn't dream of doing this and that doesn't make either of us wrong, just different.

Businesses exist to make a profit and will usually charge what the market will stand. If Porsche find that the market will pay their prices then they will continue with that business model.

[Daniel Joseph]

11 minutes ago, topradio said:

...free coffee...

? "free" as in the most expensive coffee you'll ever pay for!

But you're absolutely right that the business model obviously works for the majority of customers who have no interest whatsoever in the "oily bits".  These people generally want to be distracted from (rather than engage with) the business of having their car serviced or repaired, which is always a "distress purchase".

[cj225]

2 hours ago, topradio said:

Genuine question - what's a 'service advisor' Is he the guy that actually wields the spanners? 

 

It can vary.

I initally worked as a "pre-worker", which I think is more of a VAG thing, as it suited my experience (I'd left a job involved in designing service maintenance for a manufacturer).   In this scenario, there was me and then a team of girls who were the "service advisors".

My day would involve printing off a list of services that were due in.  I'd normally worked about 5 days to a week ahead (which was usually fine, as bookings were about 9 days in advance).   Based on that, I'd look at what each vehicle was due in for, and then determine if it was booked in correctly, and if it was due anything (DSG, Timing Belt, Brake Fluid, filters etc.).  I'd also determine if any recall work was due, then add the required parts to the job.  Essentially, it was "building" the job cards.   Easy on some manufacturers, but VAG have a quite complicated service interval setup (inspections separate from oil changes, which are also quite variable, and then separate filter intervals - no minor/major, and all quite complicated).  It would involve a lot of studying of not only the vehicle history, but the specific intervals for certain model years and so on.  If they were due any diagnostic work, I'd also research potential causes (often by ringing up the customer and asking questions about what they can feel/hear going on).  All of that meant that I could get parts ordered in (via the parts dept) ready for the day the vehicle was in, so anything could be fixed (if the customer wanted) on the same day.   I'd spend a few hours then ringing up the customers due in the next day to remind them of their appointment and check they knew where we were (if the system showed they'd not been before).   I'd then divvy up the work amongst the girls, making sure their workload was even (as you have to anticipate these things, and one girl couldn't cope with having to ring the customer of up 5 major services in one day).   The average day saw about 20-25 services that I'd prep.  Any costings or quotes that were needed once the car was in the workshop was handled by the workshop supervisor.

In this scenario, a service advisor was just a girl who saw a customer in the morning (took the keys, explained the work), called them up to tell them if anything needed doing (upsell or general 'you have a bald tyre' type stuff), and then they'd take the money and show them to their car.  Pretty much like a glorified receptionist.  Quite embarrasing too, when you witness a fat meff of a thing trying to explain to a customer that they needed a "Catamalismic Conversion" on their car.

 

 

In the second role I had like this, I went in to be a service advisor at another franchise.  In this role, I'd do all of the above in one role.   It was a bit of a cockup on my part, as I earnt about £23k OTE in the first job, and in the second I got a higher basic, but the bonus structure was a joke so never got a bonus - ended up doing a lot more work, in a worse environment, for less money.

 

The second role I initially thought had its rewards, though, as I got to speak to people directly about their cars and talking about the problems.  It turned out to be hell, as the "technicians" talked to me like I didn't know what a wheel was (generally, I think, it was an intimidation thing), and the customers were absolutely ar*eholes for the most part.  In one example, the service included additional work that wasn't due by age or mileage - so, say it was the 5 year/80k service, with a timing belt due at 80k/8 years, as a made up example, and the customer was at 5 years but only 40k.  I'd advised them that the £500 extra to do the timing belt was a bit premature and it really wasn't due.  That customer googled "what happens if I don't change my timing belt" and decided to put in an official complaint against me to the directors, and then on 3 occasions came in and told strangers that I had intentionally tried to wreck his car.

It was around that point I decided that I couldn't be bothered with people any more, as only one out of 10 were anything other than pond scum to deal with, and I left to work far less hours, for far more money, in IT.

 

 

 

For a point of interest, I think Volvo are one of the brands trying to merge the two roles of service advisor and technician together, but they probably don't realise that too many techs have no people skills or patience at all, least of all a clean and presentable image.

 

 

[topradio]

So what would the grease monkey typically earn at a Porsche dealership?

[cj225]

13 minutes ago, topradio said:

So what would the grease monkey typically earn at a Porsche dealership?

About the same, but typically less hours (8.30 til 5, and maybe 1 saturday per month) and a different bonus structure typically

[Paulo123]

1 hour ago, cj225 said:

 

 

For a point of interest, I think Volvo are one of the brands trying to merge the two roles of service advisor and technician together, but they probably don't realise that too many techs have no people skills or patience at all, least of all a clean and presentable image.

 

 

Wow That's a crazy idea for a dealer to go to considering the money involved 

 

Dealers just need to increase the tech knowledge at the front desk, admittedly a lot.  But honestly it can't be that difficult.  Every car I own I get to know the servicing and known issues within a few days from forums and experience

 

if I worked on a Porsche front desk as a service advisor I would be a absolute expert within a few weeks on all the models and would just produce for myself ring binders on all the popular models, research forums for recalls or known problems and then recommend service jobs from an actual knowledgeable point of view, after all it's you career…… it wouldn't take long and that's just having a prat about on google and forums of an evening.  The job is incredibly easy but you still get sub standard service. 

Once you know everything about servicing needs and costs, you then become a maitre D and just need to pour a coffee and sort a decent courtesy car out ……and know how to smile while charging obscene sums to people cards.  

 

Damm that's an easy 30k a year job… yet they get it wrong a lot

 

i wish that was an option when I was young

 

 

 

[Stuart21UK]

isn't most 'customer service' in this country all wrong?

no empathy and not bright enough to realise what they are saying/doing and how it affects customer satisfaction/retention etc

I'd call it 'big company syndrome' personally