Osram Night Breakers

[K.I.T.T.]

12 hours ago, swang said:

What’s the technical reason behind making LED conversion mot failure, was it just to prevent people from putting overly bright lights in?

There are two factors at play here:

1. There was a lot of hot air about how you can't retrofit litronics due to requiring self-levelling equipment / washers (you don't), but now the legislation has been amended to provide clarity - retrofitting the entire lamp assembly (HID / LED) to a car that originally had halogen units is fine. The issue is retrofitting the light source in a lamp assembly / housing not designed to take it, which brings us to...

2. ...retrofitting LEDs in units which are designed for halogen bulbs. Generally speaking (but not always), with projector lenses, the beam pattern will be fine with LEDs / HID bulbs. Typically, factory HIDs will be in projector lenses anyway, hence the "how will the MOT tester know" arguement. HID retrofits typically don't work well in reflector lenses.

LEDs on the other hand are not so straight forward. Legally, you can't / shouldn't). However, LED bulbs at the upper end of the market have been designed so that the mimic the light spread of a halogen bulb, and as such, work correctly with the optics of the reflector lens (which is different from a projector, hence not an issue in practice).

*IF* a) you have a decent LED bulb in a reflector housing and b) the bulb works well with this housing, and c) your headlamps are aligned correctly and d) the LEDs are of a low enough colour temperature that don't scream aftermarket (eg 5500k and above), in theory, you should be fine. The PIAAs I linked are 4000k. They're still white, not yellow, but looking at them directly, it's not obvious that they're LEDs as opposed to halogens. From the driver's seat, you can definitely tell they're not halogens. But a) - d) being satisfied, would pass an MOT.

It's not illegal if you don't get caught, etc... 

Edited December 7, 2021 by K.I.T.T.

[Rev Ken]

On 12/7/2021 at 7:31 AM, swang said:

What’s the technical reason behind making LED conversion mot failure, was it just to prevent people from putting overly bright lights in?

Lighting regs were based on wattage (max 55w) before LED/HID lights were invented. It is a pity they didn't have foresight and based them on maximum light emission. 

So yes the reason they are an MOT failure is that they dazzle. (Even if they meet the beam pattern they dazzle on hill crests and corners.) They remain legal when they have automatic levelling and headlight washers. 

Just as an aside the latest MOT regs also made HID conversions fail items on motorcycles, but after a campaign DVSA relented and allowed this conversion if they meet the MOT beam pattern. If any vehicle needs to upgrade lights it is motorcycles! OK we might occasionally dazzle car drivers, but not with two laser beams! (I changed my HID lights for candles for the MOT and then changed them back again as it made it a lot safer when riding at night and would have been happy to argue my case in a court, but three weeks ago I hung up my helmet for good after 67 years riding as my wife's Loooooong COVID has increased her anxiety levels. Still I've had a good innings and of course I can still get the wind in my hair and the smells of the countryside in my Boxster😀 ) 

[½cwt]

Sad to hear that @Rev Ken hope the Boxster continues to give you enjoyment even it not quite the same as 2 wheels.

[Menoporsche]

11 hours ago, Rev Ken said:

but three weeks ago I hung up my helmet for good after 67 years riding as my wife's Loooooong COVID has increased her anxiety levels.

Ken!  End of an era!

You can't do blood bike transfers in your Boxster?

[ATM]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:51 PM, K.I.T.T. said:

 

2. Use a decent LED kit such as this: https://www.powerbulbs.com/product/piaa-hyper-arros-led-h7-twin

 

I might try a pair of these. Although I've found them cheaper on eBay.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334135791079

[McDonald]

2 hours ago, ATM said:

I might try a pair of these. Although I've found them cheaper on eBay.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334135791079

I've got them in my Boxster. Definitely better than the Porsche originals. Next job is perfecting the lenses - polishing & coating.

[Pinewood]

37 minutes ago, McDonald said:

I've got them in my Boxster. Definitely better than the Porsche originals. Next job is perfecting the lenses - polishing & coating.

I used 600, 1000,2000 and 3000 grit on a cordless drill before any polishing. It takes a while but don't skimp on the sanding stages. 

I was doing my dad's old Merc, and may give them another go, but start at 400 grit or work the 600 grit for longer. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Pinewood

[BBB]

1 hour ago, McDonald said:

I've got them in my Boxster. Definitely better than the Porsche originals. Next job is perfecting the lenses - polishing & coating.

I presume you had no CANBUS issues @McDonald? Were they straight forward to fit?

[½cwt]

4 hours ago, BBB said:

I presume you had no CANBUS issues @McDonald? Were they straight forward to fit?

Appreciate you and @McDonald have 987s so do have a CANBUS system, but for the benefit of others, no CANBUS on a 986.

[McDonald]

6 hours ago, BBB said:

I presume you had no CANBUS issues @McDonald? Were they straight forward to fit?

Hi BBB, happily no issues at all - just a bit more brightness. From conversation on the forum, they may not be long lasting but they were fitted in May & so far so good.

Mc

[GmanB]

18 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Appreciate you and @McDonald have 987s so do have a CANBUS system, but for the benefit of others, no CANBUS on a 986.

There is indeed canbus on the 986 facelift models. 

[½cwt]

2 hours ago, GmanB said:

There is indeed canbus on the 986 facelift models. 

Is that '03 onwards?

.....but for the benefit of others, no CANBUS on the early 986 models.

[GmanB]

2 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Is that '03 onwards?

.....but for the benefit of others, no CANBUS on the early 986 models.

Yes, I believe so.  

[Rev Ken]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:56 AM, Menoporsche said:

Ken!  End of an era!

You can't do blood bike transfers in your Boxster?

Nope. It has to be done with a livered Blood Vehicle and I did it a bit past my 80th until they suddenly realised I wasn't insured! Mind you after the Porsche or the Golf, the SUVs were like steering barges by pointing them roughly the way you want to go. I wasn't impressed. 

[Little Silver]

Is it just me, but over the last few years driving at night I seem to very often be dazzled by oncoming headlights? I get it that modern headlights are brighter but surely if they dazzle you it’s darn right dangerous, or are a lot of people driving with badly adjusted headlights?

[BBB]

I think there are a lot of badly adjusted headlights out there, but I also find I get dazzled more in the Boxster as it sits quite low on the road. It’s especially bad when I’m being followed by SUVs and works vans and I have to use the dipped rear view mirror a lot.

[Menoporsche]

We know that some people put brighter bulbs in reflector headlights, which can’t focus the beam as well as projector lenses. There may also be some who do some sort of conversion but don’t check alignment after.   When I put in my HID kit it was pretty clear in the dark that they weren’t aligned. Got them sorted by my indie very soon after. 

[Rev Ken]

2 hours ago, Little Silver said:

Is it just me, but over the last few years driving at night I seem to very often be dazzled by oncoming headlights? I get it that modern headlights are brighter but surely if they dazzle you it’s darn right dangerous, or are a lot of people driving with badly adjusted headlights?

See my post above! (Rev Ken - once in charge of the branch enforcing MOT Regs - and recommending changes!)

[Ninesomething]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:18 PM, myfirstboxster said:

I've used them in the past and found that the lifespan of them wasn't that good compared to standard bulbs 

This. They're better but they're not night and day. Geddit? Night and day? Ebay LEDs with knock your socks off in comparison. In fact I must get around doing them.

[ATM]

17 hours ago, Little Silver said:

Is it just me, but over the last few years driving at night I seem to very often be dazzled by oncoming headlights? I get it that modern headlights are brighter but surely if they dazzle you it’s darn right dangerous, or are a lot of people driving with badly adjusted headlights?

I get dazzled all the time.  I even bought some anti dazzle glasses to wear at night when I lived in the country side a few years ago as its definitely worse when there is no lights around and your eyes adjust to the darkness.  I think modern cars are getting taller so their headlights are getting higher.  In these old Porsches we sit so much lower than everyone else.  I've even been dazzled through my wing view mirror from a Range rover parked alongside.  Car headlights are getting brighter so I think the problem will only get worse.  I dont think this is people fitting different bulbs its the car manufacturers doing this.

[½cwt]

Hate to say this folks, but whilst lights are getting brighter and also whiter (remember the French had yellow lights for years as an anti dazzle measure) there is also an element of eyes getting older and not coping so well with the flare of bright lights.

[Pordave]

Technology has moved on in the spectacle field as well. My wife has just bought new specs which are not only stronger and thinner than her last ones also have a magnetic capability that allows new modern dark glasses to stick to the frame. The other bells and whistle feature is they are anti dazzle.

Shame they were £850 otherwise I’d be having a pair!

Obviously a new drivers seat is no longer on the Xmas list.

[Menoporsche]

7 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Hate to say this folks, but whilst lights are getting brighter and also whiter (remember the French had yellow lights for years as an anti dazzle measure) there is also an element of eyes getting older and not coping so well with the flare of bright lights.

Poppycock. Nothing wrong with my eyes. You learn to respect your elders young man. Here's a bright shiny sixpence, run along now.

[Menoporsche]

My first glasses, for long distance, age 30, had a coating on as I mentioned I suffered from headlight glare at night. Polarised lenses in the sunny days also help. (No I didn't get polarised driving glasses for night!).  20 years later I am still using them (prescription hasn't changed much). They certainly didn't cost 800 quid!

[½cwt]

1 minute ago, Menoporsche said:

My first glasses, for long distance, age 30, had a coating on as I mentioned I suffered from headlight glare at night. Polarised lenses in the sunny days also help. (No I didn't get polarised driving glasses for night!).  20 years later I am still using them (prescription hasn't changed much). They certainly didn't cost 800 quid!

Glasses at 30 old man!  45 before I needed mine, have a tanner back.

PS - Show your elders some respect, 30 + 20 = 50,  I'm 1969 vintage... work it out.