987.1 (non-DFI) remap options

[tob_today]

Remaps are always a highly contentious topic for normally aspirated engines, especially for Porsches as they are usually highly tuned cars and typically there’s very little improvement without major competent changes. 

Tuning company’s claims are often unfounded. Also tuning needs to be done within safe parameters by someone that really knows the engine. However small improvements can be made as manufacturers design for least optimal conditions of their target markets. So if living in area with higher octane fuels (like in UK), this can be tuned in.

Specifically for me, the 3.4 987.1 Boxster S engine (non-DFI) is really great except for mid-range, especially 3-4k where it needs a bit more power to make it perfect. So looking for more linear power delivery, not more power. As standard, there is a significant increase in power delivery above 4k, would be much more usable if this came in earlier.

I see a couple of tuning options below from searching around. Very different prices & they don’t explain how they change the character of the engine in real (UK) world driving.

- What’s are real world opinions of the below?

- Are there are other / better options?

- Or is it a complete waste of time & money on these engines?

GAN - https://www.design911.co.uk/p/porsche-gan-gaand-tuning-module/

Softronic - https://www.design911.co.uk/p/ecu-re-mapping-softronic--performance-software-for-porsche-boxster-s---cayman-s-987-34l/

 

[phazed]

I watch this with interest.

Relatively free bhp and additional torque, seems like a pipe dream.

If true, I will definitely be signing up for this.

[edc]

The characteristic you describe is an inherent design of the variocam engine. It's not as marked as VTEC. Those tuning modules are a bit generic for something precise you want to achieve. 

[tob_today]

2 hours ago, tob_today said:

Remaps are always a highly contentious topic for normally aspirated engines, especially for Porsches as they are usually highly tuned cars and typically there’s very little improvement without major competent changes.

... should read 'component changes'

[tob_today]

12 minutes ago, edc said:

The characteristic you describe is an inherent design of the variocam engine. It's not as marked as VTEC. Those tuning modules are a bit generic for something precise you want to achieve. 

Indeed, you are probably right. However perhaps there's tuning option that makes a significant difference to mid-range before variocam kicks-in. Too many tuners claim BHP or torque improvements which are far above what is realistic with NA engines, and there's very little objective real-world reviews to back up any claimed benefits.

Even if they do make an improvement it's important to know where this is, and how it affects the drivability. E.g. if it's just a few horses at the top end, then it may show on a dyno print-out for marketing purposes (which again are highly debatable), but objectively it won't be noticeable for vast majority of people.

However given these engines are designed for lower octane markets (as one example), I'm also sure there's optimisations for market like ours with higher octane fuels available, so I also assume there's remaps available that do make some noticeable difference. 

Note to anyone looking at this thread: I'm referring specifically to engine maps, and not anything that alters throttle sensitivity which doesn't make any difference to the engine's power delivery.

[Menoporsche]

Somewhere in the distant past I recall what you are talking about, in that a very few people had their Boxsters remapped and were pleased with the new mid-range consistency. But very few have done this and I forget why. It could be as you state people are looking for a nice increase in horses, and they feel the mid-range driveability is a bit placebo, for which they don't want to pay.  (It's not placebo at all, you can see it on the dyno prints).  And as edc implies, ideally you need a real tuner to take the generic map and then tweak it to perfection on your particular car - more money on top of the purchase price.

You can try putting GAN and Softronic into the search and see what you get?

[edc]

I have used Motorsport Developments in Blackpool for my own 3.2 986 for a custom map and I know a couple have used Sanspeed in Kent for a custom map too. 

[MickH]

Wayne at Chipwizards is highly regarded for porsches. However I attempted to contact him several times regarding mine with no reply. 

[greenman986s]

Unless they can supply a pre and post dyno chart, for  my car, I'm sceptical ...

[edc]

36 minutes ago, greenman986s said:

Unless they can supply a pre and post dyno chart, for  my car, I'm sceptical ...

A custom map on a Dyno will give you that. I also did my own before and after Dyno runs.

https://www.BoXa.net/topic/58100-tuning-your-986-boxster-mods-costs-and-power-gains/#comment-685573

[Patt]

I also read in a magazine on Friday that Ninemeister are offering an ODB tuning module.  I do not recall the price (IIRC about £900) but it was considerably cheaper than the Cobb.

They did quiz me about my Cobb, but that was before I picked up the mag to read. Their comments matched my initial feelings on the Cobb maps. Worth an email or phone call.

The bonus with the module is you can restore standard map when you sell car and either add new maps for new car, or sell it on.

[Ninesomething]

I have a gan. When I first put it on I was really impressed but I put an aftermarket exhaust on at the same time so that might have contributed. When petrol got expensive I put it on the Eco setting which is where it still is. There's still a good increase in the midrange for sure - I just don't rev it out so often but I go just as fast.  I also have a sprint booster which in retrospect I would do first now. You just feel more of a difference. 

As for paying any more money I suspect the law of dimishing returns threshold is £1 above what I paid.

[Lonewolfgjp]

Not directly related to your question as my experiences are with the dfi engine but I have had my last two remapped.

The first was my 987.2 Black Edition and from my experience it improved lower down torque and made the car feel smoother out on the road. I didn’t experience any odd fuel consumption or over heating etc. If I hadn’t told you it had been remapped you would of thought it came like that from the factory but it definitely didn’t, also the tone of the exhaust was slightly better.

Similar story with my 981s, definitely improved lower end torque, slightly deeper exhaust sound and smoother running.

Both were done on a rolling road and showed increases on the graphs but I don’t take any notice of that, it is all about how they drive in the real world 👍

[temporarychicken]

I've had several cars chipped over many years, often with incredible results.

Basically, there are two ways you can make big gains:

1. If you have a turbocharged engine 

2. If you have a factory detuned engine (such as the BMW E92 325i which was a software detuned 330i engine)

Outside of that, gains are very small and almost always cost-ineffective.

The above two points don't apply to any 987 sadly, so best spend the money elsewhere.

If you have a recent turbo Boxster then you could be in serious business with a good software remap.

[jayxx83]

Had mine mapped by GAD in Essex via Copse Auto in Woking. non dfi 2.9 boxster.  Long story short I have that 7k exhaust system from FVD on there.  Full equal length manifolds, 200 cel cats, and the exhaust system. Also a BMC air filter. 
 

The base line run was the same HP 251 bhp so 255 metric horsepower. It had picked up around 23 Lb/ft which was noticeable as I ran the car for about 18 months before map. Still went flat around 3-4 k. 
 

after the map  wow what can I say.  It makes the same Torque now as my old boxster Spyder 987.2  power is up 35 hp so 285 bhp or 290 metric hp  

I was expecting hp of 285 but not expecting such a big torque bump. The car is actually rapid now where before you just used to use it to enjoy the corners  

I had a full service done just before with new plugs so the engine was as good as can be on 39k miles  

Trying to up load the graph but it’s limited to 81kb   Will try resize and upload.

 

defo worth doing as the throttle body doesn’t open fully as stock.  The driveability matters much more than headline bhp  

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by jayxx83

[MickH]

10 hours ago, jayxx83 said:

Had mine mapped by GAD in Essex via Copse Auto in Woking. non dfi 2.9 boxster.  Long story short I have that 7k exhaust system from FVD on there.  Full equal length manifolds, 200 cel cats, and the exhaust system. Also a BMC air filter. 
 

The base line run was the same HP 251 bhp so 255 metric horsepower. It had picked up around 23 Lb/ft which was noticeable as I ran the car for about 18 months before map. Still went flat around 3-4 k. 
 

after the map  wow what can I say.  It makes the same Torque now as my old boxster Spyder 987.2  power is up 35 hp so 285 bhp or 290 metric hp  

I was expecting hp of 285 but not expecting such a big torque bump. The car is actually rapid now where before you just used to use it to enjoy the corners  

I had a full service done just before with new plugs so the engine was as good as can be on 39k miles  

Trying to up load the graph but it’s limited to 81kb   Will try resize and upload.

 

defo worth doing as the throttle body doesn’t open fully as stock.  The driveability matters much more than headline bhp  

 

 

This is why I want mine mapped if I keep it.   It will create a much better torque curve!  Its not about pub bhp figures but the drivability and smoothness of power delivery

[Menoporsche]

11 hours ago, jayxx83 said:

Trying to up load the graph but it’s limited to 81kb   Will try resize and upload.

Host it somewhere else as a picture, like Flikr or Imgur, then paste the link in the thread. Don't try to upload pics to this site, it's discouraged for site management reasons (ie it would soon become unmanageable!)

[EVO Chris]

I have had a remap and sprint booster on my 2.9. The remap smoothed everything out and sharpened the gearbox feel, more responsive so I reckon the torque changed. Have no proof but definitely better than stock. The sprint booster made the biggest difference even though it does nothing but sharpen the go pedal, feels more alive.

[phazed]

This is all very interesting.

I would love to see back to back Dyno results.

I have sport mode on my RS 60.

in normal mode, which is what I prefer on road as it is more linear, Power seems as it should be, which allegedly is 303 BHP. In sport mode, the throttle pedal is far more responsive giving a much more direct and responsive feel in the first part of its travel. It seems like the engine is producing more torque in sport mode which feels brilliant on track.

You need a little bit more punch out of the corners so in sport mode that is brilliant on track.

I will go to my local Dyno in the next couple of weeks and have two power runs. One in standard mode and the other in sport mode. It will be interesting to see both curves overlaid on the same graph.

Personally, I am more than happy with the power delivery on road, although saying that, it is always good to have more power on track!

Doing Cadwell Park on Thursday next week, so hoping the weather will be dry so I can use all those 303 BHP’s!

 

 

 

[Patt]

I too would be interested to see if the torque changes.  I've not had much time to play with my Cobb (3.4 DPI) yet, however initial feelings are very similar.  The effort required to reach motorway speeds is significantly less.  The pedal mapping in standard is as aggressive as OEM sports mode , sports mode is a bit more again. (not tried sports plus yet)

low to mid range delivery is such an improvement and yet it doesn't feel that much more powerful and I would not be surprised if it was only 330bhp  

I will stick it on the rollers once I've got the PDK mapping sorted too, and then I'll decide if I want to take the tuning further and possibly get a bespoke map done too. 

[brillomaster]

i'd be surprised if you actually got any more torque or power in sports mode... i could be wrong, but a lot of sports modes just change the throttle pedal to make it more responsive, but doesnt give you any more power at WOT.

only a handful of cars have actually had changeable power modes - the M5 and M6 of old used to be able to switch between 400bhp and 500bhp, and theres the odd supercar that can switch between 500, 700 and 900 bhp or something, but its not very common.

but would be happy to be proven wrong!

[Menoporsche]

I have Sport mode on my 987.1. I always assumed it was just throttle responsiveness (and raising DSC intervention levels, switching on PSE etc).  If anyone can prove or disprove that it changes the torque curve, that would be really useful.

[box100]

‘ …as manufacturers design for least optimal conditions of their target markets. So if living in area with higher octane fuels (like in UK), this can be tuned in.’

This is a myth put about by those offering a remap, the ECU automatically factors in what octane is in use.

Don’t do it, Porsche know what they are doing a hell of a lot better than someone with a laptop in the back of a garage, also what if something went wrong with the download etc. 

[MickH]

2 hours ago, box100 said:

‘ …as manufacturers design for least optimal conditions of their target markets. So if living in area with higher octane fuels (like in UK), this can be tuned in.’

This is a myth put about by those offering a remap, the ECU automatically factors in what octane is in use.

Don’t do it, Porsche know what they are doing a hell of a lot better than someone with a laptop in the back of a garage, also what if something went wrong with the download etc. 

This is incredibly ill-informed and complete nonsense. 

1 - We are talking about professional mappers. Not people in a back garage

 

2 - Every engine is slightly different. To account for this the standard map is detuned to prevent failure. A custom map on every engine produced by a manufacturer is pretty much impossible. Hence why paying to get one to tune your specific engine will make everything better. As long as the mapper knows what they are doing obviously. 

3 - A proper map is done live on a rolling road. So there is no download as such. 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by MickH

[tob_today]

Thanks for all the replies. Seems there's lots of different viewpoints & opinions, and most likely the best result is taking the car to a trusted expert and dyno before / after. I suspect it will make relatively minor difference for the cost outlay, unless there's significant modifications. However cost is all relative anyway.