chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Buzzfox said: I'm so sorry to hear this mate, having just gone through a similar thing. I know exactly how you're feeling and words probably can't describe it. Remember that as the injured party if you or they can't find an almost identical car you can insist that yours is repaired to the standard it was before the accident as long as it's safe to do so. Also be careful if they've put you in some posh hire car that they say will be claimed off the third party, it can be a minefield. Good luck and hope it turns out good for you. Thanks for the words of support. They insist on quoting Glass's, Parkers and CAP prices which range from £4200 to £2900! I've studied Autotrader and Pistonheads and currently, 986S's range from around £4600 (for a CAT D with a sketchy history) to £6500-ish. Of course, the insurers choose to ignore advertised prices because they are not sold prices (or perhaps it's because it suits their agenda...) Interesting you should mention posh hire cars - I've concluded that it's a scam, aimed at lining the pockets of their partner companies at the expense of their client, the motorist. My accident happened 10 days ago and if Admiral had their way, I would be in a BMW Z4 at a cost (so far) of £1400 and with no sign of my claim being settled yet, who knows how much the final bill be! I declined the offer of a car, using that as leverage with the 3rd party's insurers in the hope that they will be sympathetic to my desire to get something close to the true value of my car. Note the use of the word 'hope'... On the subject of scams, don't get me started on the number of times I've been asked whether I suffered any injuries! The FCA state that insurers 'should act in the best interests of their clients'. If only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John T Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 44 minutes ago, chrishak said: Thanks for the words of support. They insist on quoting Glass's, Parkers and CAP prices which range from £4200 to £2900! I've studied Autotrader and Pistonheads and currently, 986S's range from around £4600 (for a CAT D with a sketchy history) to £6500-ish. Of course, the insurers choose to ignore advertised prices because they are not sold prices (or perhaps it's because it suits their agenda...) Stick to your guns and the price you believe to be fair, don't be pressured into accepting a low price and good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 I wonder if you can use the hire car cost as leverage to get this sorted ASAP. Maybe contact the third party insurer with a proposal for them to payout a fair value based on evidence supplied by you taking into account haggling on advertised prices. Suggest that if they they don't want to settle now, that you will be going through the accident management company of your own insurer, getting a hire car and ouch my neck is feeling very stiff all of a sudden. From their point of view it would make sense to settle for a slightly increased value on the car rather than be lumbered with thousands in car hire and legal costs where the only winners are the accident management company and lawyers. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, Nobbie said: I wonder if you can use the hire car cost as leverage to get this sorted ASAP. Maybe contact the third party insurer with a proposal for them to payout a fair value based on evidence supplied by you taking into account haggling on advertised prices. Suggest that if they they don't want to settle now, that you will be going through the accident management company of your own insurer, getting a hire car and ouch my neck is feeling very stiff all of a sudden. From their point of view it would make sense to settle for a slightly increased value on the car rather than be lumbered with thousands in car hire and legal costs where the only winners are the accident management company and lawyers. Good luck That's pretty much my way of thinking. The third party's insurer is sending someone round for a repair estimate today and until they have that, they obviously can't offer me a total loss value. They think it's a repair job because the old gent who hit me told them that it's drivable and the damage isn't as bad as his Passat. Of course it's repairable, but at a cost which even I would agree is uneconomical. Regarding the whiplash, there are no signs of that (yet), but the stress is really beginning to take its toll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, chrishak said: They insist on quoting Glass's, Parkers and CAP prices which range from £4200 to £2900! I've studied Autotrader and Pistonheads and currently, 986S's range from around £4600 (for a CAT D with a sketchy history) to £6500-ish. Of course, the insurers choose to ignore advertised prices because they are not sold prices (or perhaps it's because it suits their agenda...) Their client hit you. At no fault of your own, you've lost your car. You should be back in a position you were before the accident. Their Parkers quotes simply won't do that. It might work for when it's your fault, but not when it isn't. Hold out. If you are a member of AA / RAC, you may have free legal advice. I'm not saying use it, but it's another threat to them, that they can drag the case out fighting with an equal rather than a greenhorn (!), or hurry up and settle it for a grand extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Menoporsche said: Their client hit you. At no fault of your own, you've lost your car. You should be back in a position you were before the accident. Their Parkers quotes simply won't do that. It might work for when it's your fault, but not when it isn't. Hold out. If you are a member of AA / RAC, you may have free legal advice. I'm not saying use it, but it's another threat to them, that they can drag the case out fighting with an equal rather than a greenhorn (!), or hurry up and settle it for a grand extra. I'm not a member of either. I have threatened to contact the Insurance Ombudsman but looking at their website, it looks like they are an integral part of the scam, quoting Glass's, Parkers and CAP as their 'Bible'. It stinks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araf Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 No, the insurance ombudsman is there to mediate and from personal experience I know that they do take a rational look at all of the facts before making their ruling. It is rare that an insurance company will go against the decision but either side still have the option of taking it to court. As for their bibles, they know who Autotrader are. Give them details for similar cars and see if they can negotiate them down to the CAP figures. I would echo most of the above. Threaten the insurance company with the big stick of taking on a like-for-like hire car until they settle to your satisfaction. Give your own insurance company a kick up the backside too, as they should be fighting your corner, not making you have to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, chrishak said: I'm not a member of either. I have threatened to contact the Insurance Ombudsman but looking at their website, it looks like they are an integral part of the scam, quoting Glass's, Parkers and CAP as their 'Bible'. It stinks... Yes, they are. I've read a long thread where someone was unhappy with the settlement offered. At first I thought they were a bit of a nutter, but they eventually got a result. The Ombudsman will basically say that as long as they are using a reasonable method to ascertain value, then they will not deem it unfair. Using a trade guide Will be deemed a reasonable method. The guy I read about actually took them to court and they eventually settled just before the court date after various threats over legal fees etc. I'll see if I can find the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Nobbie said: Yes, they are. I've read a long thread where someone was unhappy with the settlement offered. At first I thought they were a bit of a nutter, but they eventually got a result. The Ombudsman will basically say that as long as they are using a reasonable method to ascertain value, then they will not deem it unfair. Using a trade guide Will be deemed a reasonable method. The guy I read about actually took them to court and they eventually settled just before the court date after various threats over legal fees etc. I'll see if I can find the thread. Thanks, I look forward to reading it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Araf said: As for their bibles, they know who Autotrader are. Give them details for similar cars and see if they can negotiate them down to the CAP figures. This I like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbie Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, chrishak said: Thanks, I look forward to reading it! http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5485423&highlight=ombudsman this is only 5 pages and covers the lead up to the court case, but has links to previous iterations of the same issue that runs to 20 odd pages. Make yourself a cup of coffee and go to the loo before you start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzfox Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, chrishak said: That's pretty much my way of thinking. The third party's insurer is sending someone round for a repair estimate today and until they have that, they obviously can't offer me a total loss value. They think it's a repair job because the old gent who hit me told them that it's drivable and the damage isn't as bad as his Passat. Of course it's repairable, but at a cost which even I would agree is uneconomical. Regarding the whiplash, there are no signs of that (yet), but the stress is really beginning to take its toll... The advice I was given and acted upon at the time was to let the third party handle everything as they had admitted liability and I was 100% no fault. The chap who gave me this advice said they would bend over backwards to help as it's in their interest to keep the costs reasonable and the best way to do that is to keep you happy so you don't get an accident management company involved. For me that advice turned out to be spot on and I'm so glad I took it. It is a minefield but what from I understand the insurance is obliged to put you back in the same position you were in before the accident so if you find a similar spec and age car and it's £5500-£6000 I think you've got a good argument to justify that total loss pay-out, yes it's unsold at the moment but if it's the only way that puts you back to where you were before the accident and that's the price then that's what they need to give you. Alternatively, if you can't find a similar spec car which was the situation I thought I might be in, you can go down the repair route as long as it's not CAT A or B. As the no fault party it really is up to how you want to proceed as long as you're reasonable which seems to be exactly how you're playing it and all credit to you for that. That's how I played it and the third party insurance were true to their word and got my car repaired at a Porsche approved shop and provided me with a car so much cheaper than the accident management company provided (much less power as well!!). The hire car claim alone would have been about £33000, but by accepting the third party's offer I reduced that claim to around £900. It is stressful, I really struggled through the whole mess and you have to keep ringing everyone because I found that the communication between the independent assessor and body shop back to the insurance company was somewhat lacking! The insurance company never seemed to delay but several times they weren't aware a report had been written so I had to tell them it was available and they would then chase for it and get the next phase of the repair process approved. I really feel your pain buddy and I hope it all gets sorted quickly for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Nobbie said: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5485423&highlight=ombudsman this is only 5 pages and covers the lead up to the court case, but has links to previous iterations of the same issue that runs to 20 odd pages. Make yourself a cup of coffee and go to the loo before you start? Bladder empty, coffee on the go! Thanks mate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Buzzfox said: The advice I was given and acted upon at the time was to let the third party handle everything as they had admitted liability and I was 100% no fault. The chap who gave me this advice said they would bend over backwards to help as it's in their interest to keep the costs reasonable and the best way to do that is to keep you happy so you don't get an accident management company involved. For me that advice turned out to be spot on and I'm so glad I took it. It is a minefield but what from I understand the insurance is obliged to put you back in the same position you were in before the accident so if you find a similar spec and age car and it's £5500-£6000 I think you've got a good argument to justify that total loss pay-out, yes it's unsold at the moment but if it's the only way that puts you back to where you were before the accident and that's the price then that's what they need to give you. Alternatively, if you can't find a similar spec car which was the situation I thought I might be in, you can go down the repair route as long as it's not CAT A or B. As the no fault party it really is up to how you want to proceed as long as you're reasonable which seems to be exactly how you're playing it and all credit to you for that. That's how I played it and the third party insurance were true to their word and got my car repaired at a Porsche approved shop and provided me with a car so much cheaper than the accident management company provided (much less power as well!!). The hire car claim alone would have been about £33000, but by accepting the third party's offer I reduced that claim to around £900. It is stressful, I really struggled through the whole mess and you have to keep ringing everyone because I found that the communication between the independent assessor and body shop back to the insurance company was somewhat lacking! The insurance company never seemed to delay but several times they weren't aware a report had been written so I had to tell them it was available and they would then chase for it and get the next phase of the repair process approved. I really feel your pain buddy and I hope it all gets sorted quickly for you. It's easy to feel like you are alone and swimming against the tide in situations like this, but posts like this make you realise there is a tremendous network of support on this forum! Thanks everyone, it is really appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 I posted this before too but I got a fair payout on my old Boxster by printing off the priciest and closest match Autotrader adverts. I also sent a copy of the service history papers and invoices. I also did something similar when I got taken out on my moped and argued my price up twice. There were no similar mopeds within a reasonable distance so I said they should allow me to buy a new one from the same dealer. In the end they confused themselves and sent me 2 additional 'adjustment' cheques but the second cheque also included the amount from the first one. I ended up with almost the new price, it was less than a year old at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, chrishak said: Bladder empty, coffee on the go! Thanks mate?? Well, I've finished speed-reading this can of worms and very interesting it was too. Glad to see the OP was successful in the end but was staggered by the vitriol he faced from other contributors - and the overwhelming support for the insurance company and what is clearly a rotten system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazbot Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 I would also consider the fact that if written off YOUR insurance increase will be even more expensive than for a straight non-blame accident. Look at excess as well, I would factor that in any claim. do you have legal cover as part fo the isnurance if so time to get the leaches, sorry, lawyers to work..... good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Shazbot said: I would also consider the fact that if written off YOUR insurance increase will be even more expensive than for a straight non-blame accident. Look at excess as well, I would factor that in any claim. do you have legal cover as part fo the isnurance if so time to get the leaches, sorry, lawyers to work..... good luck That may all come home to roost but a regular car insurance policy won't compensate you for a future possible rise in premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araf Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 23 hours ago, edc said: That may all come home to roost but a regular car insurance policy won't compensate you for a future possible rise in premium. They will if you really stamp your feet. A Monaro owner did just this by getting his insurer to give him two quotes, then he went to the other party's insurance company, quoted the claim and asked for an additional £300. The first year was difficult but after they coughed he told them to expect his call in a years time.... He did some track days with us, so I'm sure he's registered here as Liam1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Thanks again for all your comments and words of advice. For your sins, here's quick update... My insurer, Admiral, continue to treat me with utter contempt. Because I haven't accepted their offer for my car we reached an impasse, so they suggested they send an independant engineer to look at the car and value it - Hallelujah! In anticipation of holding negotiations with someone who - a) knew Boxsters and their market value and didn't have a vested interest in milking me for all I'm worth, I spent two hours on Wednesday evening copying Autotrader and Pistonheads ads and getting my history file in order. When he got here on Thursday, it quickly became clear that he knew what he was talking about, making all the right noises while I was discussing it's history, plus points and negatives. However, his remit didn't include negotiating a value on behalf of of Admilra! He did, however, confirm that the history would be taken into account when he looks into the market and repirts back to Pirate (sorry, Admiral). Two days later, I still haven't had an improved offer - but I HAVE had two proofs of NCB that included the fact that the accident was my fault!!! Two stinking rows later and at least that has been sorted - they said this was normal if investigations were not concluded but I finally managed to pursuade the robot on the other end of the phone to call LV to confirm my blameless position. Which they did. If I knew three days before that the other party had admitted 100% liability, then why the Hell didn't Admiral??? In the meantime, the 3rd party's insurer, sent a repairer round to look at the car on Wednesday. He clearly knew his stuff regarding repair estimates but like most of the world's population (except Glass's, Parkers and CAP) he had a grossly inflated opinion of the value of my car, putting it at £10k! The initial report back to 3rd party insurer LV gave me a glimmer of hope that they might repair my car but that was soon didmissed - even I would admit that the repairs would probably run to £7k - £8k. In all fairness to LV, they have made their first offer and it is significantly more than my own insurers have offered - I'm now getting close to the sum I think I'll need to get close to buying something similar to the cherished, spoilt, once great beauty parked on my drive! That's it for now. I said it would be a quick update, and believe me, in comparison to all the goings on, it is! This experience has proved to me that the car insurance industry is rotten to the core and the fact is that whether we ever make a claim or not, it is us, the motorist, who pay for it. Had I taken up Admirals offer of a hire car at £140 per day, the bill so far woukd be £1820 - and who would ultimately foot the bill, LV? Of course not, it would be us, the motorist (or as insurers see us, cash-cows). This all stinks so.much that I have every intention of going to the press when I've reached a satisfactory conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araf Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Ah, the Admiral. It took me 18 months to get satisfaction from another part of that group (Diamond) and then only after intervention from the ombudsman. Good luck, and I'm guessing that you are now realising that cheapest isn't always best. BTW, the anecdote above about the Monaro was will Bell - another Admiral subsidiary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishak Posted May 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 That's it, all over. Following countless discussions with Admiral, they would not budge from their offer of £5k. Based on the fact that they believed that was way above market value, as quoted in those fictional works, Glass's etc. the threat of the Ombudsman didn't bother them one jot. I finally accepted an acceptable negotiated offer from LV, bought the salvage and passed it on to a local indy who is going to repair it and use it as a courtesy car - which I am very happy about as my car will live on. Next post - 'I'm on the lookout for a well cared for 986S, full history, £000's recently spent. Cash waiting...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joehirth Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 On 2017-5-12 at 9:45 AM, Menoporsche said: Sorry to hear about it - hope it works out well in the end. Glad no-one was hurt. The advised technique is to find a bunch of ads of similar cars for sale, preferably close to you, at favourable prices, then give that to the insurance company as evidence. Doesn't sound way off the value of a 2.5 to me but I don't follow closely. Problem with all the online sources a lot of them will say they're not at market value, they are above in order to be knocked down to market value and they don't base their pricing on private sales! They will go off Parkers guide or some other 'official' source. Load of rubbish really but keep pushing back, I got an extra £1k out of them for my M3 when I binned that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXY Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 On 12/05/2017 at 8:42 PM, topradio said: He said there were no injuries He also said it was an 'S' and yet I read some think it is a 2.5 Sincerely glad Chris has got an acceptable settlement, onward and upward mate good luck with the hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev911 Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 yeh good luck on the lookout for a new boxster mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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