Bobby Dandruff Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I took my 2003 Boxster S 3.2 manual on a track day for the first time on Saturday and it was fantastic. However, just before lunch I was out on the track, but this time with an instructor, and so pushing on a bit harder than I probably had been earlier in the morning. Everything was fine until I noticed a huge cloud of white smoke suddenly appear in my rear view mirror having just completed a fairly twisting part of the track. There was a message flash up on the dash (some text, not a warning light - something about returning to the garage or dealer - I couldn't read it properly at the time, as I was concentrating on slowing down and pulling over) but there was no sudden noise, or loss of drive, or drama. Just a LOT of smoke. I slowly crawled back to the pits (only about 200 yards), by which time the message on the dash had gone. The car didn't drop any fluid, or make any odd noises, or behave in a strange manner, so I left it to cool down for a couple of minutes. I made a few calls and checked the car over again, and all seemed fine. I therefore, took it on a short drive (it was lunchtime) to check it out, before heading home. This is a near 2-hour drive during which the car drove perfectly normally and I even made a point of driving it pretty hard at times. So what was this huge cloud of smoke and what was the causes as it hasn't happened again and the car seems to drive perfectly normally (it was GREAT on the track btw!)? People have suggested that the Air Oil Separator may be the cause and everything that I have read suggests as much BUT I have done the oil cap vacuum check and the oil cap came off without any problems at all, which suggests that the AOS is actually fine. Does anyone have any advice as I have more track days booked and I'd ideally like to avoid this happening again! Thanks for all and any comments and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Wasn't a lhd bend was it ? https://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/18738-need-help-white-smoke-during-trackday/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted September 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 6 hours ago, pipsqueak said: Wasn't a lhd bend was it ? https://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/18738-need-help-white-smoke-during-trackday/ Yes it was funnily enough. Thanks for the link above. Having read it, I’m still not clear what their conclusion is though....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxstercol Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Didn't the 986 suffer with oil starvation issues when cornering hard on track days? Thought this was why some folk installed deeper sumps... Might be barking up the wrong tree though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxsey S Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 26/09/2017 at 8:48 PM, Boxstercol said: Didn't the 986 suffer with oil starvation issues when cornering hard on track days? Thought this was why some folk installed deeper sumps... Might be barking up the wrong tree though... Many of the US guys reckon they suffer from oil starvation. I fitted an X51 baffled sump to mine, and didn't have any issues at a recent Donington track day where the car was driven hard (Michelin PS4 tyres making plenty of noise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyderman8 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 We fit baffled sumps to most of the race Boxsters because of this. Too much of it and you'll knacker the cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Boxsey S said: I fitted an X51 baffled sump to mine Where did you source your X51 sump from please Mr Boxey? Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Boxsey S said: Many of the US guys reckon they suffer from oil starvation. I fitted an X51 baffled sump to mine, and didn't have any issues at a recent Donington track day where the car was driven hard (Michelin PS4 tyres making plenty of noise). Ah very interesting. This is the conclusion that I have arrived at too. So my research has led me to: 1. a deep sump baffled pan for £399 plus VAT (yikes) 2. a replacement race/track baffle only (which I think can be fitted to the existing sump) for $300 including shipping. Having just spent quite a bit on the car getting the brakes track ready I am waxing the pennies. Will option 2. above do the job as, whereas the deep sump pan with the baffle will hold more oil and provide better cooling I need to keep an eye on cost. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, bagss2 said: Where did you source your X51 sump from please Mr Boxey? Cheers, Baggers. Design911 sell deep sump baffled pans, but race/track baffles only are cheaper. (I’m trying to find out if the latter is sufficient - see my previous post. The race/track baffles only can be sources from the US. Let me find the links for you....... EBSracing.com tarrett.com http://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-981-products/986-987-981-engine~trans~brakes~electrical/oil-sump-baffle-kit-986-987-996-997-997107243ebsrk-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_5601792=9606354#ITEM_5601792 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 42 minutes ago, Bobby Dandruff said: Design911 sell deep sump baffled pans, but race/track baffles only are cheaper. (I’m trying to find out if the latter is sufficient - see my previous post. The race/track baffles only can be sources from the US. Let me find the links for you....... EBSracing.com tarrett.com http://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-981-products/986-987-981-engine~trans~brakes~electrical/oil-sump-baffle-kit-986-987-996-997-997107243ebsrk-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_5601792=9606354#ITEM_5601792 Thanks for this Bobby. Do we we know how the Tarett kit compares cost-wise to the X51 kit (which would presumably be sourced from an OPC - anyone got a part number?), taking in to account shipping & duty? Or do Tarett have a UK distributor? Is there any downside to running a baffled sump for normal and fast-road driving? Especially in light of @spyderman8 's cat comment... Sorry for all the questions, but this is very interesting stuff! Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 4 hours ago, bagss2 said: Thanks for this Bobby. Do we we know how the Tarett kit compares cost-wise to the X51 kit (which would presumably be sourced from an OPC - anyone got a part number?), taking in to account shipping & duty? Or do Tarett have a UK distributor? Is there any downside to running a baffled sump for normal and fast-road driving? Especially in light of @spyderman8 's cat comment... Sorry for all the questions, but this is very interesting stuff! Cheers, Baggers. 3 Hi Baggers It sounds like we are after the same thing here :-) What is the 'X51 kit'? All that I have found so far on this subject are the 2 items listed in my previous post - a deep sump baffled pan at £399 plus VAT from Design911 plus fitting, or the race/track baffle-only from Tarett or EBS Racing for $300 including shipping from the US. I haven't heard back from the two US companies who provide the latter yet as I only found the baffle last night but the Tarett website says that they DO ship to the UK and will even provide a cost for shipping (hence the $300 total price) I just need to know if fitting the race/track baffle-only will solve the problem as obviously I don't want to fork out on a whole deep sump kit if I don't have to. So what is this X51 kit? Thanks Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Bobby Dandruff said: Hi Baggers It sounds like we are after the same thing here :-) What is the 'X51 kit'? All that I have found so far on this subject are the 2 items listed in my previous post - a deep sump baffled pan at £399 plus VAT from Design911 plus fitting, or the race/track baffle-only from Tarett or EBS Racing for $300 including shipping from the US. I haven't heard back from the two US companies who provide the latter yet as I only found the baffle last night but the Tarett website says that they DO ship to the UK and will even provide a cost for shipping (hence the $300 total price) I just need to know if fitting the race/track baffle-only will solve the problem as obviously I don't want to fork out on a whole deep sump kit if I don't have to. So what is this X51 kit? Thanks Bobby I have found the same part from Pellican Parts in the US for $225 plus $56 for shipping. (The web site states that it will fit my car and all Boxsters in fact but now I am concerned about the comments about X51, whatever that is......?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 1, 2017 Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Bobby Dandruff said: What is the 'X51 kit'? 7 minutes ago, Bobby Dandruff said: but now I am concerned about the comments about X51, whatever that is......? Designed to fit all Boxster/996/997 M96/97 type engines, this new oil sump baffle expands on the factory X51 design and features all stainless construction with metal doors that will not distort or deteriorate over time. This helps to ensure that more oil stays around the main oil pickup at all times. The normal plastic baffle used in nearly all production Boxster/996/997 motors does not do a very good job when these cars are driven on the track. The baffle that Porsche designed for use in the X51 motors is much better but the rubber material used for the doors tends to distort and come apart from heat and oil contamination. Ours is quite similar to the Factory X51 but the construction is simplified (fewer parts to be assembled) and features all metal doors. Do you think we could get some even cheaper for an order of two or more? Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Why don't you ask some of the BRSSC or other UK Boxster race series car owners what they do? I can't imagine your requirements will be any more than they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 The X51 was an upgrade on the NA M96 engines giving an extra 25hp. Relatively unheard of compared to the X50 upgrade on the Mezger turbos. Was researching this a few years ago when I had no £££ but dreamt of a 996. Then I got some £££, but decided a 986 was better VFM. – new intake manifold with modified cross-section; – new intake pipe supports adapted to the form of the intake manifold; – new exhaust manifolds with larger cross-section and optimized flow behavior; – new cylinder heads with optimized, CNC-milled inlet ducts; – new camshafts with larger valve stroke on the inlet side and modified inlet and outlet timing; – inlet valve springs adapted to the enlarged valve stroke; – modified partition box in the oil pan; – modified maps for the DME control module The highlighted refers to the different sump. I'll have a 911 one day. Once I've invested in bricks and mortar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidd Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: I'll have a 911 one day. Once I've invested in bricks and mortar. I keep telling myself that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: The X51 was an upgrade on the NA M96 engines giving an extra 25hp. Relatively unheard of compared to the X50 upgrade on the Mezger turbos. – new intake manifold with modified cross-section; – new intake pipe supports adapted to the form of the intake manifold; – new exhaust manifolds with larger cross-section and optimized flow behavior; – new cylinder heads with optimized, CNC-milled inlet ducts; – new camshafts with larger valve stroke on the inlet side and modified inlet and outlet timing; – inlet valve springs adapted to the enlarged valve stroke; – modified partition box in the oil pan; – modified maps for the DME control module The highlighted refers to the different sump. Thanks for this Ash. It now makes sense.... Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 38 minutes ago, bagss2 said: Thanks for this Ash. It now makes sense.... Cheers, Baggers. I am even more confused now! How can I tell if my car has this X51 mod? (It is a 2003 3.2 S 986 facelift model - the one with the glovebox, and glass rear window). Is there a web site that I can visit to plug in the VIN to find out, and will this affect whether this baffle can be fitted or not? :-/ Or is this all moot anyway as the Pelican Parts web site says that it will fit the model of car that I have anyway....sorry for all the questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Bobby, I think some things have been lost in translation The X51 was never offered on the 986. It was offered on the 996 3.4. Boxey was suggesting he'd fitted the X51 sump (baffled as above) to his 986 (shares the M96 architecture with the 996) to prevent oil starvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 24 minutes ago, K.I.T.T. said: Bobby, I think some things have been lost in translation The X51 was never offered on the 986. It was offered on the 996 3.4. Boxey was suggesting he'd fitted the X51 sump (baffled as above) to his 986 (shares the M96 architecture with the 996) to prevent oil starvation. Doh! Please excuse my buffoonery and thanks for the explanation. It looks like I am good to go with the Pelican Parts sourced baffle then :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagss2 Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bobby Dandruff said: It looks like I am good to go with the Pelican Parts sourced baffle then :-) Do you have a link for this one too please Bobby? Cheers, Baggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, bagss2 said: Do you have a link for this one too please Bobby? Cheers, Baggers. Here you go: http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=Engine+Oil+Sump+Baffle+ :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Have you looked on Design911 for the deep sump kits instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.I.T.T. Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 Dare I say try OPC too for an OE X51 sump? Or will the added Porsche tax be ridiculous? Curious to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Dandruff Posted October 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, edc said: Have you looked on Design911 for the deep sump kits instead? I have, but the deep sump kit is £399 plus VAT . The baffle only is just over £200. Whereas I'm sure that the deep sump kit is a better solution, at well over twice the price, I'd rather try the baffle-only first. Wish me luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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