Questions after a test drive- creaking and air conditioning

[Schecter]

Hi all, long time lurker here. I've had my heart set on a 986 for a few months now, but haven't been quick enough to snap up the 2 or 3 nice cars with exceptional service history I've managed to find around my target budget of £5500. I haven't put this topic in the intros section, as I have a couple of questions I would be grateful for input on...

Yesterday, I test drove a car I liked. It's a silver 2002 2.7 with terracotta interior and 18" turbo twist alloys (no other notable options), with 61,000 miles on the clock. It has been serviced every year (mostly at local garages) apart form a 4 year gap which ended in 2013. It has recently had new P zero tyres, front coffin arms, front brake lines and a cat. MOT history is good and there are no advisories. My questions are:

1. The car creaked going over speed bumps slowly, I think from the rear suspension. The car was otherwise smooth and I thought drove well. Should I factor a likely £600 expense into the cost of the car?

2.  We had the heater on the whole way, and when I put the air con on at the end of the journey, I was left unconvinced that the air was any cooler than ambient. I have read that condensers are a common and significant expense on these cars- in the absence of any leakage, is there a way to tell if it just needs a re-gas? For what it's worth, I couldn't see any sign of leaves through the front bumper; everything looked clean and like I would expect from a low mileage car.

3. I'm comfortable with the approx £2500 yearly budget for maintenance, but would a 15 year old 986 with 60k miles (original clutch) be considered to be considerably more likely to want money thrown at it than a 100k example with more evidence of recent expenditure?

The seller of the car I saw is asking £5400. I would feel happy to pay that in the absence of points 1 and 2. Does that sound about right? 

I've already learnt a huge amount from my time lurking on here. Hopefully I'll find the right car soon and I'll be able to contribute before too long. Thanks for reading!

[Nobbie]

Welcome to the forum?, sounds like the reward coffin arms are on the way out as well. At an OPC you would be looking at £600, but a decent Indy should do it for under half that, although you'd probably need a geo afterwards for another £100, but probably worth doing anyway if it's not been done recently.

I'd suspect the condensers or a leak in one of the pipes, they run near one of the jacking points and can get damaged by careless jacking. Condensers are a relatively easy DIY and can be had for £50 each,  don't go near an OPC for this as they'll charge like a wounded rhino for the OEM condensers. Best bet is to go somewhere that offers a regas with guarantee as if it is leaking they should be able to point out where, you go away and fix and they regas it when you return for no extra charge. If it's a pipe, they can be expensive, upto £200 from memory.

£5400 is a bit much with those issues to fix, so I'd be making an offer under £5k and go from there. If they want rid of it, they'd be wise to take a half decent offer now, rather than let it hang around with little interest.

Whereabouts are you based? Plenty of good indies around to keep maintenance costs reasonable if you're not into DIY. £2500 a year should be plenty. At that age, I'd be expecting something in the cooling system to fail in the next couple of years, maybe water pump or radiator. If it's on the original coilpacks, these maybe nearing end of life. Always worth checking the state of the brake discs as these are a regular maintenance item and check that both keys work as a new one will cost £2-300. I suspect there will be little difference in maintenance between a 100k and 60k car as so much depends on how well it's been looked after. A good early service history usually sets a car up well, the four year gap is worth exploring, was it laid up? How many miles did it do each year?

Worth banging the details in we buy any car to get an idea of what the owner will get for a no hassle sale as it give a base price to work from.

[Schecter]

Thank you for the welcome and your answers have given me confidence that I was right to walk away after having my offer of £5,000 rejected. We buy any car offered £4,400 so that was a bit of an eye opener (although it it were my car, I would expect more than that!).
 
The coil packs were changed 4 years. The four year gap didn't put me off as it occurred at the start of one person's ownership of 8 years, and they subsequently serviced it at the same garage yearly (so perhaps they started out by doing the work themselves). The car only did 7,000 miles in the 4 year gap. It's always done at least 1,500 miles a year.

There were no invoices for brakes, but based on MOT history, they appear to be 5 years and 9,000 miles old. Is 5 years a reasonable life or should they go on for a while with such low use? I attach a photo of a front disc. 

I'm based in London but am happy to travel to visit recommended specialists (although I gather there are a few options locally).

[bally4563]

It's generally not the front of the discs that's the problem but the rears get very rusty and crazed.

[PaulQ]

Solid discs don't suffer like the drilled ones.

[james_ly]

At that price all Boxsters will have issues, it's a bit of a lottery as to what will happen to you IMO.

[moocow]

I agree with james_ly above. I'm a little surprised that it's expected that an expensive sports car from a high value marque will be low mileage and immaculately maintained when the purchase price is so low. I don't mean any disrespect by that, however a five grand Porsche is a cheap Porsche!

[Schecter]

Thanks for all the replies.

3 hours ago, moocow said:

I agree with james_ly above. I'm a little surprised that it's expected that an expensive sports car from a high value marque will be low mileage and immaculately maintained when the purchase price is so low. I don't mean any disrespect by that, however a five grand Porsche is a cheap Porsche!

No disrespect taken, I'm new to these cars, and whatever knowledge I have has come from reading about other people's experiences, so your input is welcome. 

I don't expect an immaculate car (this one wasn't, even without the mentioned issues), and I fully expect whatever 15+ year old car I choose will have surprises, hence the £2500 yearly maintenance budget. That said, I can minimise the risks of the repair/maintenance lottery by being patient and getting a car that doesn't come with any obvious faults.

Do you think that £5000 was an unreasonable offer given the possible immediate costs of condensers and coffin arms?

[edc]

29 minutes ago, Schecter said:

Thanks for all the replies.

No disrespect taken, I'm new to these cars, and whatever knowledge I have has come from reading about other people's experiences, so your input is welcome. 

I don't expect an immaculate car (this one wasn't, even without the mentioned issues), and I fully expect whatever 15+ year old car I choose will have surprises, hence the £2500 yearly maintenance budget. That said, I can minimise the risks of the repair/maintenance lottery by being patient and getting a car that doesn't come with any obvious faults.

Do you think that £5000 was an unreasonable offer given the possible immediate costs of condensers and coffin arms?

Who knows. Everybody has a different band of reasonableness. Indeed, the seller might have 'priced accordingly'. I would say having bought 2 at relatively old age and high ish mileage that 95% of the cars you will see will need some sort of work. The 5% will be priced at the top or owned by enthusiasts (like me  ) who have a money no object and preventative maintenance approach (rather than wait for it to break).

[JohnnyUK]

I think they will regret not taking the offer! Are you prepared to do any work yourself? This will always keep bills down and the Boxster is quite easy to work on.

End Jan/Feb could be a good buying time if any are on the market. Put a post in the wanted section and see what appears.

 

 

[Greenman]

I’m no 986 expert but £5000 seems reasonable to me. Given that around £3500 is the bottom of the market for higher mileage examples then £5000-5500 seems a decent price for just 60k IMO. 

[Southy]

I paid £5,400 for mine with 58k miles on it three years ago, although I've now spent a fair bit on it since slowly working through the normal age related issues, coffin arms etc, my aircon hasn't worked since I bought it, never been a issue for me, Cotswold Porsche will re-instate aircon systems for £300 if required.

I bought mine 23/12/2014 - guy needed the sale as he had already bought a really nice 996 Cab so couldn't afford two porsches on the drive 

Go into the purchase with the knowledge that some work will be required, you won't know exactly needs doing until you have had the car looked at by a good garage.

 

[Greenman]

On 17/12/2017 at 7:37 PM, bally4563 said:

It's generally not the front of the discs that's the problem but the rears get very rusty and crazed.

The brakes should last years longer if they haven’t rusted/seized, but when was the fluid last changed? As said you need to look at the inside surface of the disks to check this is often an issue with lower mileage that just don’t get used enough to stop the rust developing and keep the calipers moving.

[Billzeebub]

I would always say it's better to put the money into the initial purchase than be chasing faults around a car, especially if you're not good mechanically. £2k per year is a good maintenance budget. There are still plenty of cars around to be choosey, although do seem to be many more 987/981 for sale these days than 986. With any specialist/Sportscar, but especially the Boxster I always try to buy from a fellow enthusiast. I have viewed some terrible cars at various non-Porsche sales places.

[Schecter]

18 hours ago, edc said:

Who knows. Everybody has a different band of reasonableness. Indeed, the seller might have 'priced accordingly'.

Unfortunately the seller was ignorant of both issues, and then wouldn't negotiate- that seemed a little unreasonable to me. 

18 hours ago, JohnnyUK said:

I think they will regret not taking the offer! Are you prepared to do any work yourself? This will always keep bills down and the Boxster is quite easy to work on.

End Jan/Feb could be a good buying time if any are on the market. Put a post in the wanted section and see what appears.

Perhaps! Happy to do what work I can, but our drive is very steep so I'll need to find somewhere else to work on it.

Fingers crossed that buying season is around the corner, and I'll definitely put a wanted post up, thanks. 

17 hours ago, Southy said:

I paid £5,400 for mine with 58k miles on it three years ago, although I've now spent a fair bit on it since slowly working through the normal age related issues, coffin arms etc, my aircon hasn't worked since I bought it, never been a issue for me, Cotswold Porsche will re-instate aircon systems for £300 if required.

I bought mine 23/12/2014 - guy needed the sale as he had already bought a really nice 996 Cab so couldn't afford two porsches on the drive 

Go into the purchase with the knowledge that some work will be required, you won't know exactly needs doing until you have had the car looked at by a good garage.

That sounds fairly comparable to what I'm looking at, although yours is a 3.2. It's a shame I can't find a members ride thread for your car, that would have made for an interesting read

17 hours ago, Greenman said:

The brakes should last years longer if they haven’t rusted/seized, but when was the fluid last changed? As said you need to look at the inside surface of the disks to check this is often an issue with lower mileage that just don’t get used enough to stop the rust developing and keep the calipers moving.

Around 2 years ago. Although that was only the second stamp, there was one more invoice for a change. 

11 hours ago, Billzeebub said:

I would always say it's better to put the money into the initial purchase than be chasing faults around a car, especially if you're not good mechanically. £2k per year is a good maintenance budget. There are still plenty of cars around to be choosey, although do seem to be many more 987/981 for sale these days than 986. With any specialist/Sportscar, but especially the Boxster I always try to buy from a fellow enthusiast. I have viewed some terrible cars at various non-Porsche sales places.

My preference would definitely be to buy from an enthusiast! From my experience of looking, it feels like you can only afford to be choosey if you're willing to be patient (which I am). It does seem like there are a handful of good examples in the sub £6k category. Fingers crossed I find one and then I will not resent using the maintenance budget to keep it that way!

[Southy]

1 hour ago, Schecter said:

 

That sounds fairly comparable to what I'm looking at, although yours is a 3.2. It's a shame I can't find a members ride thread for your car, that would have made for an interesting read

 

here you go, although with the great photobucket drama 2017 most of the images were lost, I must really delete that thread and recreate it.

 

 

[Boxstercol]

If its condensors leaking for the air con then you should be able to do the whole job yourself for under £150.

Did both of mine on a 987 back in the summer, think the total cost was about £130 in parts & with air con regas but I had a discounted air con refresh with a 'Groupon' voucher at ATS.

[Schecter]

Thanks @Southy, your thread has already given me a few ideas and I don't even have one yet!

 

22 hours ago, Boxstercol said:

If its condensors leaking for the air con then you should be able to do the whole job yourself for under £150.

Did both of mine on a 987 back in the summer, think the total cost was about £130 in parts & with air con regas but I had a discounted air con refresh with a 'Groupon' voucher at ATS.

That's good to know, thanks

[mikefocke]

There is such a thing as a Pre=Purchase Inspection that a buyer can ask for at a shop of his choice.  The seller must agree to it, take the car to the shop and both parties will receive a report of the results.  Result is a symmetry of knowledge about the condition of the car and thus a fair price can be negotiated. The PPI is something the buyer pays for, generally 2 hours of shop time and you probably want to have it done at the shop that will do some of the work. My second Boxster I did that and there were no issues but it took $1k+ in 90k service, a complete brake job (fluids, rotors, pads), a set of tires and an alignment before the car was to my satisfaction. That said, there were no real surprises and so the pre-PPI price we agreed on stood.  Had there been a surprise to the seller, the price would have been negotiated or the verbal pre-PPI deal canceled.

Doing things this way reduces (but does not eliminate) the risk of the unknowns. Because it is done by a P-car expert, it tells you more than just a test drive. Because the buyer is paying, it shows the seller you are serious about the car and it is worth the sellers time to take it off the market.  If the deal falls through, the seller has PPI docs which enable him (or her, both mine were from ladies) maybe sell to the next guy faster and maybe get the big problems sorted at his own time and expense.

Buying at the worst time of the year helps the seller with his incentive to agree to the PPI.  My second was with serious snow on the ground and a snow shovel in the passenger seat.

The other suggestion is try to know and verify the motive of the seller for selling. In my case, both times I knew why she was selling and could prove it (3 kids, needed room in the 4 car garage for a huge SUV, new job as an outside salesperson driving to customer's sites).

Of course maintenance records help.

There are lots out there, no need to buy the first one you see.  Do research on the actual selling price of comparable cars and have that documented when you negotiate. I knocked $4k off asking by showing comparables.

Wonderful cars, both of mine.

 

 

[Schecter]

Thanks for all the advice @mikefocke!