witko999 Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 42 minutes ago, Jonttt said: The point of my post was to check my logic as I’m still getting to know the 987 car......it is achieving that.......I could not have bothered posting and continued to be wrong in my thinking......the whole point of my OP was to try to “cleanse” so much conflicting information thats on the internet ......one of the problems with the internet is that searches bring up results from many years....often that has been superseded by better /more informed information later........I was simply looking to use the better experiences of members of this forum to help me understand properly....thats the point of a forum right ? Ie already I think someone reading this thread will be better informed than I was when I started researching ;-).....as a wise man once said to me....the best way to learn is to get things wrong......I’m always prepared to do that but prefer to do it on “paper” first before practically.........therefore I contest that its none sense.......it is obvious not correct as later stated in the thread.....but to go back and edit it would I think be detrimental to the thread as a whole ? .....I think if I remove the baffle I will need some form of mesh ie the design of the scoops can only lead to an increase in objects entering the cavity where the baffle would normally restrict them ....ie its called an “air Scoop” for a reason ;-).....to not fit some form of larger object restriction before the air filter is just asking for trouble with scoops fitted I feel.......there can;t be any harm in doing so if you reverse the question why wouldn’t you ? No problem. My post above wasn't meant as a dig at you, it's just that you posted a list of 'facts' which I mostly disagree with. The mesh over the intake can indeed pose a problem. Imagine if that red mesh pictured above was melted down and then made into a bit of plastic sheet of the same thickness. The size of that plastic sheet is how much you are now blocking your air intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 The drilled airbox thing is not new. People have been doing this since the 80s at least on VWs. It is just for sound though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 Yes agreed, just for sound but that leaves the option to retain the baffle and drill the top half ? I’ve ordered one of the Cad plastic parts as per the video earlier...........with better understanding I’ve now got more to “play around” with.........all part of the fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 hours ago, witko999 said: No problem. My post above wasn't meant as a dig at you, it's just that you posted a list of 'facts' which I mostly disagree with. The mesh over the intake can indeed pose a problem. Imagine if that red mesh pictured above was melted down and then made into a bit of plastic sheet of the same thickness. The size of that plastic sheet is how much you are now blocking your air intake. I disagree with my original post now as well lol I agree it would reduce airflow but I don’t see that as a problem as I’m not trying to maximise airflow and the air scoops would likely add extra to compensate to some degree.......before I fit the scoops I’m simply trying to find a balance between the current what appears to be ultra cautious solution by Porsche to fix a remote liability risk v too much of a probability of detrimental restriction of the air filter from larger contaminants ......some form of mesh in place of the baffle, or a revised baffle seems the logical compromise I’m arriving at..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 4 hours ago, headless said: I took the baffle plate out ages ago and added mesh to the vent, using gorilla glue like you thought, little sound gain but I'm sure it breathes better cos the air does'nt have to go round the plate...... That looks like a neat solution.....the problem I have however is that the scoops I am fitting require removal of that part ie they are molded to replace the original grill ...they are not simply stick onto the side of the car type...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sa utah Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 I’d say any air scoops would have zero effect apart from looking like someone had gone to the add on stuff section at Halfords. we picked up a cayman to vet the last couple of weeks to keep occupied and the snorkel had gone from that. Bought one from eBay and put it all back to factory. Zero performance change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, sa utah said: I’d say any air scoops would have zero effect apart from looking like someone had gone to the add on stuff section at Halfords. we picked up a cayman to vet the last couple of weeks to keep occupied and the snorkel had gone from that. Bought one from eBay and put it all back to factory. Zero performance change. I’ve always quite liked the scoops.....if there are good enough for a GT4 lol......the last time I had carbon scoops was on an R8 and they where one of the main things I liked about the car.....as stated a few times in the thread this is not about performance gains ......if I wanted better performance I would not have bought a 987 boxster.....what I want to see is if I can add to the experience ....getting to know the car and tinkering with it is a big part of the ownership experience for me......that why I bought it....not to try and make it faster 😉....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 @Jonttt Snorkel is to duct the air from the intake, if you note there is a lip on the intake which will help 'trip' airflow from the side of the car into the intake. The baffles causes turbulence which reduces the energy of the airflow causing it to drop particles like grit and water and leaves and twigs and, yes, even fag ends and the air box acts as a plenum for the air to stall into as steady or at least more controlled less turbulent state and thus higher static pressure. The induction then draws on this 'reservoir of air to suck the air through the filter from a steady state past the MAF from which the management system then calculates the fuel requirement for the given torque demand and opens the throttle body butterfly accordingly, times the injectors and sparks. I'm sure Porsche spent quite a few R&D hours getting this right to their satisfaction and thus disrupting this but drawing normally warmer air from a less dynamic airflow, such as the engine bay, if you remove the snorkel will actually be to the detriment of performance unless someone can prove to you beyond doubt that the conditions of the airflow at the MAF (after the filter) are at least as good as the original design. A full ducted scoop to use a ram effect into a correctly designed filter housing to feed the MAF might just do it if it raised the typical max airflow available with a higher static pressure in the pre filter flow structure at the intake, however it would be a lot of testing and engineering to prove it. If there is no improvement in the maximum mass flow of air (either by static pressure increase or temperature drop) in a normally aspirated engine, now power gain. Next stop is increasing pressure of the air into the MAF through super/turbocharging which will completely screw the intake sound but will give lots of power and opens a whole other can of worms.... On 5/24/2020 at 12:01 PM, edc said: The drilled airbox thing is not new. People have been doing this since the 80s at least on VWs. It is just for sound though. Does de-snorkeling and de-baffling improve the induction noise however, Yes! Does it improve power output and engine efficiency, very doubtful. The plate from the US that was mentioned in the thread, most likely along the lines of snake oil unless someone has published verified data to prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 Yes I like your logic ie keep the snorkel as that limits the possibility of drawing warm engine bay air into the Air Filter and thus MAF = the last thing you want to do as warmer air you less power....... Its removing the baffle or not that I’m intrigued about.....the 3d printer “mesh” baffle is designed to replace the OEM one to stop larger debris whilst increasing induction noise ie its not market (so far as I can see) as a performance enhancement....... Thats why I’m going to be patient and not fit the scoops yet so I can try the car with the mesh style Baffle and see for myself if there is a noticeable increase in induction noise.......logic says if I then fit the scoops there should be a further increase in induction noise due to an increase in air flow again.........I’ve also being doing some further research into the GT4 which obviously also has the air scoops fitted as standard.....the main feedback from those are that more debris does get sucked to the air filter and the OEM paper filters need cleaning much more regularly than recommended by Porsche .......so I’ve also ordered a BMC Cotton performance filter..........I’m not really wanting to debate the pros and cons of cotton/oil performance filters v paper OEM as I’ve been there and done that many times.......I just thought it would be a good idea to make sure there is a fresh filter in there (I could have flipped a coin over which type).....I have some other mods planned which require removal of the engine cover so may as well change air filter whilst in there....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolfgjp Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 I think you will be impressed with extra induction noise, it’s not to much and balances well with the exhaust note. It even increases a bit more in Sports mode👍 The de snorkel with the larger throttle body and the aluminium intake on the 986s sounded the best, perfect with bypass exhaust 👌 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted May 26, 2020 Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 22 hours ago, ½cwt said: @Jonttt Snorkel is to duct the air from the intake, if you note there is a lip on the intake which will help 'trip' airflow from the side of the car into the intake. The baffles causes turbulence which reduces the energy of the airflow causing it to drop particles like grit and water and leaves and twigs and, yes, even fag ends and the air box acts as a plenum for the air to stall into as steady or at least more controlled less turbulent state and thus higher static pressure. The induction then draws on this 'reservoir of air to suck the air through the filter from a steady state past the MAF from which the management system then calculates the fuel requirement for the given torque demand and opens the throttle body butterfly accordingly, times the injectors and sparks. I'm sure Porsche spent quite a few R&D hours getting this right to their satisfaction and thus disrupting this but drawing normally warmer air from a less dynamic airflow, such as the engine bay, if you remove the snorkel will actually be to the detriment of performance unless someone can prove to you beyond doubt that the conditions of the airflow at the MAF (after the filter) are at least as good as the original design. A full ducted scoop to use a ram effect into a correctly designed filter housing to feed the MAF might just do it if it raised the typical max airflow available with a higher static pressure in the pre filter flow structure at the intake, however it would be a lot of testing and engineering to prove it. If there is no improvement in the maximum mass flow of air (either by static pressure increase or temperature drop) in a normally aspirated engine, now power gain. Next stop is increasing pressure of the air into the MAF through super/turbocharging which will completely screw the intake sound but will give lots of power and opens a whole other can of worms.... Does de-snorkeling and de-baffling improve the induction noise however, Yes! Does it improve power output and engine efficiency, very doubtful. The plate from the US that was mentioned in the thread, most likely along the lines of snake oil unless someone has published verified data to prove otherwise. My thoughts. My car makes a lovely sound with the exhuast set to standard, wouldn't really want more. When switched to sports mode, sound is more intrusive and I'm not sure if I like that extra noise.....jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattman42 Posted May 26, 2020 Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 1 hour ago, phazed said: My thoughts. My car makes a lovely sound with the exhuast set to standard, wouldn't really want more. When switched to sports mode, sound is more intrusive and I'm not sure if I like that extra noise.....jury is still out. not sure if you are being serious? You own a TVR which just sound awesome at all times and much louder and more throaty than the pork? I think i'm still stuck in the Max Power days and just like exhaust noise more and more as i get older Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted May 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 The reason I own a boxster is because to me it maximises the noise of the Porsche normally aspirated engine, I drive it with the roof down 95% of the time.....it is one of the sweetest sounding engines of any marque........sounds better than the more modern Porsche’s due to emission restrictions and forced induction (I’ve not heard the new NA 718’s in the flesh yet).......if I can marry that up with a little more induction noise I’ll be well happy...........I’m lucky enough to also own a 993 ......two completely different but awesome sounding cars that both just bring a big grin to my face 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazed Posted May 26, 2020 Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Mattman42 said: not sure if you are being serious? You own a TVR which just sound awesome at all times and much louder and more throaty than the pork? I think i'm still stuck in the Max Power days and just like exhaust noise more and more as i get older Absolutely serious! After 15 years of snarling V8s, the flat 6 howl is truely addictive! The howl in standard mode seems so right compared with the sport mode imho. My 5.5. https://youtu.be/pvxs2mbaP9I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 I had a 55 AMG alongside my Boxster for a bit over a year. From the outside it is angrier and louder, but with all the sound deadening in the car and the exhaust being a few feet further away it didn't sound as loud as the Boxster, modified as well, from the inside. I guess the answer is something like a stripped out SLK 55 with the rear decat and X pipe too 😎😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattman42 Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, edc said: I had a 55 AMG alongside my Boxster for a bit over a year. From the outside it is angrier and louder, but with all the sound deadening in the car and the exhaust being a few feet further away it didn't sound as loud as the Boxster, modified as well, from the inside. I guess the answer is something like a stripped out SLK 55 with the rear decat and X pipe too 😎😁 isn't that the F-Type V8? that sounds glorious to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 55 AMG is Merc AMG but I guess Jag V8 is just as loud 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwazaru Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 New to the forum on a related issue to this post just had a Eurocup GT Cold induction Kit fitted to my 987 2.7 Sport 2008 38, 000 miles. This has given it a major spring in its step, through all gears stronger pull. OK new coil packs ( From Frazer Parts UK, top makes and price BTW) and full service will have helped . Also the sound is worth the upgrade. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Iwazaru said: New to the forum on a related issue to this post just had a Eurocup GT Cold induction Kit fitted to my 987 2.7 Sport 2008 38, 000 miles. This has given it a major spring in its step, through all gears stronger pull. OK new coil packs ( From Frazer Parts UK, top makes and price BTW) and full service will have helped . Also the sound is worth the upgrade. Brilliant. This appears to be an upgrade to the existing pipework and throttle body with out removing the snorkel, so it retains the cooler and cleaner induction air flow into and from the original stock air filter installation. Looks like a nice kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky-Art Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Leave the snorkel but remove the baffle and then remap for best results. If a hi flow air filter (ie K&N) is used benefits will be had. Snorkels are used to reduce what is called "Fogging" a vacuum effect just in front of the intake into the throttle bodies/carbs, but due to the distance these are from the intake I would think it is more to do with induction noise. Just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted June 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 I’ve: - Removed the baffle - fitted the USA custom made snorkel mesh (previously mentioned on this thread) - fitted a BMC air filter I can report that I’m happy with the “mod”s 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFX Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 Reading Jonttt's essay on the never-ending de-snorkel discussions (and, I always enjoy his well written and largely factual write-ups). I am sure the purpose of the 'snorkel' is exactly what the name (not assuming this would be what Porsche call it, but it's quite fitting in my opinion ) suggests - allow the engine to draw in cool (oxygen-rich) air from the outside. You get the same with any front engine car just that the air ducts (probably a more official term for the snorkel) are sitting in front of the engine, pointing forwards towards where air gets pushed into the engine bay. The 'baffle' may really just protect the engine against water intake especially if - due to the location of the engine - there is any chance that water could be gravity-fed into the air intake system (i.e. air filter box and MAF) which obviously would not be a good thing. I am still on the fence with regards to removing the baffle (I already have Zune grilles protecting against accidental ingestion of larger debris and cigarette buts (do people still smoke this day and age??) ), but will NOT remove the intake duct. Having said that, and since I would do this to get a bit more roar from the engine, removing the baffle (blanking plate) only may not do much in that regard, so I may as well leave it alone (and use the gutter guard mesh for exactly that i.e. protect my gutters from the dreaded autumnal leave clog ) Only my 5 cents worth - but by all means, please don't let my opinion put you off your planned weekend 'bit of de-snorkel fun' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattman42 Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 I removed the baffle plate but left the snorkel piece in. Gives more noise! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sa utah Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 My thoughts are it all helps with air pressure at speed. There’s nothing on a Porsche which is there just for the sake of it. Unlike some other brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonttt Posted June 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 6/7/2020 at 6:31 PM, Jonttt said: I’ve: - Removed the baffle - fitted the USA custom made snorkel mesh (previously mentioned on this thread) - fitted a BMC air filter I can report that I’m happy with the “mod”s 😉 Pics in case someone calls the custard test lol.... Baffle removed but “snorkel” left in place.. Custom fit 3D Printer mesh from America (as referred to earlier in this thread)... And fitted.... And finally replacement BMC performance air filter (compared to the OEM removed)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.