Porsche Cayman or Audi TTS?

[½cwt]

30 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

I've already answered the question in my head. Done the nicely appointed / goes quickly for 7 years and now looking for something different. The Cayman 981 ticks all the boxes but would mean it would be my daily. Could I reasonably leave a 987 Boxster outside in all weathers and expect it to stay dry inside?  (wife has a fiesta and I already have a 70s classic in the garage to just use on sunny summer days). Porsche biased opinions and experience is why I've come here so any Audi bashing won't upset me. LOL. 

My 20+ year old 986 lives outside and stays dry with no problem.  I do use a half cover when it won't be going anywhere or if it is due to be very wet but it has cope fine even with the recent heavy rain and no cover.

 

51 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

It's more does the Tiptronic torque converter sap so much of the power that it really needs the 3.2 to make up for it to bring the performance back up to 2.7 manual levels? I've driven A5 & A6s with tiptronic and liked them. I watched a Youtube vid of a tiptronic Boxster drive last night and the way it changed, I may prefer a manual. It's hard to say though and the only way I'll really know is to drive one.

The tiptronic is still a traditional auto box, just a pretty good one.  I just looked up the data on the link below (a handy almanac of vehicle data) and yep, 3.2 Tip = 2.7 manual in acceleration so a fair assessment.

Specs for all Porsche Cayman (Typ 987c) versions (ultimatespecs.com)

[zcacogp]

39 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

Could I reasonably leave a 987 Boxster outside in all weathers and expect it to stay dry inside?

Dunno, I have a Cayman so don't know how good the hoods on the Boxsters are. However the rest of it makes an excellent daily; reliable, comfortable, (very) enjoyable to drive. Practicality is reasonable, all things considering (it's no Volvo estate but has more storage space than a bicycle). 

FWIW it seems that the prices of 987's aren't going down significantly and will go up as the weather improves. You could buy one now and run it for 2 or 3 months and probably sell it for what you paid if you are careful. 

[zcacogp]

39 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

Could I reasonably leave a 987 Boxster outside in all weathers and expect it to stay dry inside?

Dunno, I have a Cayman so don't know how good the hoods on the Boxsters are. However the rest of it makes an excellent daily; reliable, comfortable, (very) enjoyable to drive. Practicality is reasonable, all things considering (it's no Volvo estate but has more storage space than a bicycle). 

FWIW it seems that the prices of 987's aren't going down significantly and will go up as the weather improves. You could buy one now and run it for 2 or 3 months and probably sell it for what you paid if you are careful. 

[Codfanglers]

3 hours ago, Roger C said:

Here is my 2 pence, Daily is a S3 (8p) and fun weekend car is a 07 2.7 987.

The S3 is awesome, I have a 45 min commute along mainly A roads and because I work shifts its often when the roads are quiet and I can have a little bit of fun, however as awesome as the S3 is sometimes I do feel a little disconnected from it, whilst its a very capable machine with oodles of power and grip its not a pure drivers car if you know what I mean.

The 987...awesome with added awesomeness, even though its slower than the S3 its pure fun, when we got it (me and the wife used it as a 50th birthday present to each other) I really wanted a Cayman but the boss wanted a rag top so we compromised...lol, however I now love the rag top and if we ever upgrade it'll be for another Boxster. Its such a fun car and sometimes I take it work if its not raining which makes an interesting commute ever better... Would I use it as a daily...no... whilst its an awesome car after a long nightshift the box can be hard work, anyway not using it daily makes it special when you do use it.

If I was you, I'd keep the S3 and look for a nice 986 / 987 to have weekend fun in, its actually quite nice having two cars, when my S3 failed its MOT there was not a problem getting it sorted as I had the Box as a standby, also don't get too stressed about buying a 'S' the base models are more than capable (ours is a 2.7 987.1) and TBH tend to be in better condition as they haven't been owned by wannabe racing drivers... doesn't matter which you choose you will have fun.

Good luck.

Rog.

987.1 gorgeous, cheap, additional insurance, tax, servicing, possible higher repair costs of an older car.

987.2 gorgeous, far more expensive, less worry about the engine.

981 extra gorgeous, expensive (four times the price, S3 goes), possible needing less repairs. No extra depreciation expected (compared to the S3) Probably the cheaper alternative and an easier sell to Mrs C! 

Would I have wanted to drive a Cayman to work this morning in the snow though? But it's only a few days a year..

 

 

 

 

[½cwt]

6 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

987.1 gorgeous, cheap, additional insurance, tax, servicing, possible higher repair costs of an older car.

987.2 gorgeous, far more expensive, less worry about the engine.

981 extra gorgeous, expensive (four times the price, S3 goes), possible needing less repairs. No extra depreciation expected (compared to the S3) Probably the cheaper alternative and an easier sell to Mrs C! 

Would I have wanted to drive a Cayman to work this morning in the snow though? But it's only a few days a year..

 

A dilemma only you can resolve. 🤔

Not a bad one to have though!

[zcacogp]

11 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

Would I have wanted to drive a Cayman to work this morning in the snow though? 

Why ever not? I've driven mine through thick snow many times in the last month or two. The only thing that will get you into trouble in such situations is yourself. If you are worried then put winter tyres on the car (as I have). If you are really worried then take the bus, walk, book a taxi or ask someone else who can drive in such conditions to take the wheel for you. 

[Menoporsche]

Several people here have a set of winter wheels and tyres.  Just check with Stuart if he's put his on - if he has then it won't snow and you don't need them  

[Menoporsche]

4 hours ago, Codfanglers said:

and I already have a 70s classic in the garage to just use on sunny summer days

And you thought you'd just sneak this by us and we wouldn't notice?

[Codfanglers]

30 minutes ago, Menoporsche said:

And you thought you'd just sneak this by us and we wouldn't notice?

Let's get the hairdresser comments out of the way now then. And I'm used to numerous tales of "engines blowing up".😁

Why am I even considering a power sapping slushbox when I ripped the BW35 out of this car and replaced it with a manual overdrive box - it transformed the car!

There's also a Dolomite Sprint in my garage "awaiting restoration".

So you understand, it wouldn't be so easy to sneak yet another toy car past Mrs C.

 

[½cwt]

1 hour ago, Codfanglers said:

Let's get the hairdresser comments out of the way now then. And I'm used to numerous tales of "engines blowing up".😁

Why am I even considering a power sapping slushbox when I ripped the BW35 out of this car and replaced it with a manual overdrive box - it transformed the car!

There's also a Dolomite Sprint in my garage "awaiting restoration".

So you understand, it wouldn't be so easy to sneak yet another toy car past Mrs C.

 

Noting wrong with a sorted Stag is there @CAZ ?

[Menoporsche]

Nice! Pop into Other Marques and start a My Stag thread with the same pic. You’ll start quite a conversation. 

[CAZ]

1 hour ago, ½cwt said:

Noting wrong with a sorted Stag is there @CAZ ?

Certainly not @Menoporsche as you can see from my side profile I’ve had 3 stags ( no engine overheating problems  only diffs ) a TR7 with a dolly sprint conversion and a frog eye sprite - love my 07 gen 1 987 SE with all the mods - I like to earn my rides - daily is a 17 plate fiesta - love my 2.7 Box 

[McDonald]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:50 PM, Codfanglers said:

Wow, what a response and some great advice, thank you all. 

If I go for older, I much prefer the 987 to the 986 and finding a well sorted and maintained one would be key. I don't think a reasonable gen1 Cayman would be out of the question for £10k, but Boxsters seem cheaper and as a second car a convertible would be great.   

I've spent the day looking at ads for 981s with PDK and they look gorgeous inside and out, but...

I quite like the look of this 987.1, I think it may be a bit overpriced though. Is the 3.2 and tiptronic a good combination? Assume the engine can't be overreved with this box? Are the 3.2 engines less prone to problems with this gearbox? 

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11246354

Don't know how much that steering lock will have chewed the wheel though. I can't stand a rough steering wheel. A re-trim and paddles would be in order.

Ultimate performance isn't really the goal, but does the 3.2 have more usable torque low down?

 

This looks a great car at a great price - fab colour.  I've never driven Tiptronic, so no comment there. Of course, you never know until you drive it.

[DaveEFI]

43 minutes ago, McDonald said:

This looks a great car at a great price - fab colour.  I've never driven Tiptronic, so no comment there. Of course, you never know until you drive it.

Before going for a Boxster, my previous car was an E39 BMW 2.8 with a Steptronic ZF 5 speed. And I wanted an auto, living in London. Bought a mint one owner low miles 987 2.7 Tip, after a short test drive. I assumed the Tip would be much the same as in the BMW gearbox wise, which found excellent. But in the Boxster. it disappointed. Far too low gearing, meaning a fussy cruise on the motorway. Why set the overall gearing so low the car normally starts in second gear? To my mind Porsche didn't understand the reasons why you'd choose an auto over a manual. And attempted to wring the last fraction of a second off a benchmark figure like the 0-60 time - when of course it's not going to be as good as a manual. But you'd need to really be familiar with a good auto to know what I mean.

I changed it after only a year, having intended it to be a keeper originally. Now have a 987.2 S PDK which is damn near perfect, and after having it for a couple of years have no intention changing it ever.

[McDonald]

3 hours ago, DaveEFI said:

Before going for a Boxster, my previous car was an E39 BMW 2.8 with a Steptronic ZF 5 speed. And I wanted an auto, living in London. Bought a mint one owner low miles 987 2.7 Tip, after a short test drive. I assumed the Tip would be much the same as in the BMW gearbox wise, which found excellent. But in the Boxster. it disappointed. Far too low gearing, meaning a fussy cruise on the motorway. 

I changed it after only a year, having intended it to be a keeper originally. Now have a 987.2 S PDK which is damn near perfect, and after having it for a couple of years have no intention changing it ever.

Glad you found what you were looking for. A pity it took two goes. Mine is a manual and I'm enjoying every drive.

[Codfanglers]

5 hours ago, DaveEFI said:

 in the Boxster. it disappointed. Far too low gearing, meaning a fussy cruise on the motorway. Why set the overall gearing so low the car normally starts in second gear? To my mind Porsche didn't understand the reasons why you'd choose an auto over a manual. And attempted to wring the last fraction of a second off a benchmark figure like the 0-60 time - when of course it's not going to be as good as a manual. But you'd need to really be familiar with a good auto to know what I mean.

I changed it after only a year, having intended it to be a keeper originally. Now have a 987.2 S PDK which is damn near perfect, and after having it for a couple of years have no intention changing it ever.

Hmmm you raise a good point. What are typical rpm at 70mph for the manual 5/6 speed compared to tiptronic, compared to PDK? I do like tall gears for motorway cruising.

Assume the PDK top gear is very tall and changes down at the mere hint of extra throttle (like S-tronic).

I've tried to have an open mind to torque converter auto gearboxes (I'm from the olden days where autos were driven by either nervous girls who couldn't pass a driving test in a manual or old people) but thinking Tiptronic is something I would regret and is slowly being ruled out.

[½cwt]

In the 6 speed 3.2 S, 80 mph is about 3000rpm.  I've done quite taken mine over to France on long runs a couple of times (those were the days) and cruising at 80 (130kmh) is not at all noisy or tiring even with the roof down.

S-tronic/DSG/PDK are all similar mechanical dual clutch systems, as I'm sure you know.  The only way to know about a tiptronic is to drive one. People who have them like them but they don't know what your taste is.

For what its worth my view is what's the point of a sports car that you want to be involved in driving but then having an auto...  A PDK with instant response changes and paddle changes, I can see that.

[thanatoid]

2 hours ago, Codfanglers said:

but thinking Tiptronic is something I would regret and is slowly being ruled out.

Had a couple of 3ltr Capris with the 3 speed auto box - the 5 speed Tiptronic box in the 987.1 3.2S is way away from those, OK so it knocks the 0-60 back a bit, but the best bit about a Boxster is it's perkiness and cornering, non of that lost with the auto box, and in the Thames Valley traffic an auto box makes life better 🙂
Anyway, if want to go quick 0-60 the remapped 535d takes care of that 🙂 Somehow the mass don't go round bends like the Boxster though 🙂 

[DaveEFI]

16 hours ago, ½cwt said:

In the 6 speed 3.2 S, 80 mph is about 3000rpm.  I've done quite taken mine over to France on long runs a couple of times (those were the days) and cruising at 80 (130kmh) is not at all noisy or tiring even with the roof down.

S-tronic/DSG/PDK are all similar mechanical dual clutch systems, as I'm sure you know.  The only way to know about a tiptronic is to drive one. People who have them like them but they don't know what your taste is.

For what its worth my view is what's the point of a sports car that you want to be involved in driving but then having an auto...  A PDK with instant response changes and paddle changes, I can see that.

No reason why you can't have paddle shifters and 'instant' gear changes on an epicyclic auto. Remember the 5HP box dates back to the early 90s. There are newer designs. And it is going to depend on how it is programmed anyway - same as with a PDK.

[Mr96er]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:11 PM, Menoporsche said:

Several people here have a set of winter wheels and tyres.  Just check with Stuart if he's put his on - if he has then it won't snow and you don't need them  

And for the price of a set of decent winters you could by a front wheel drive hatchback and drag it out those odd days when your Porsche just doesn’t cut the mustard. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-Honda-Jazz-1-3-Very-good-runner-Cheap-car-/184645014807?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292 
 

Oooooor......

There’s Uber🤷🏾‍♂️

[DaysofGrace]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:12 PM, Codfanglers said:

Hi, My first post and looking for a bit of advice to a first world problem.

I'm considering moving from an Audi S3 (manual) to a Cayman, but don't want to make an expensive mistake. I was considering either a nearly new S3 or a 2 year old TTS, but for similar money, I could buy a Cayman. 

I realise the Audis are fast, point and shoot, full of tech, easy to drive and are doing quite a bit in the background to keep stuck to the road, but would really like something with a bit more feel, engaging and rewarding to drive.

Looking at specs, IMS issues etc, my ideal would be a 987.2 or 981 with PDK which would be a daily driver summer and winter. Looking at £20-30k+ to go this way.

Alternatively, keep the S3 and buy a 986 Boxster for £6k to see if I could live with a Porsche. This way, I wouldn't be too bothered if the engine was to let go. Or an early Cayman for £10-12k, but worry about having to pay for an engine re-build. Does anyone ever bother to replace the IMS in tiptronic cars? Are autos less likely to have been thrashed around the track?

Question is, would a 986 or even an 8 year old Porsche be a constant money pit requiring brakes, bushes, coils, exhaust parts etc. to keep it in the best condition? 

Any opinions to help make the decision or advice gratefully received.

  

I would get a 987.2 S get one with the stitched leather on the dash and door-cards which make it feel like a luxury vehicle. No amount tack and gimmicks cover up lack of luxury materials. If you buy something like a 30-40K miles then you should be fine with regard to wear and tear. You can get an extended warranty from Porsche after they put it through 111 point check. You could ask the seller to put it through that check and get any corrective work done.  I bought mine from a franchise for that reason. I'll be extending my warranty this summer as the two years are up. For me it's just a piece of mind, really. 987.2 don't suffer IMS, RMS or bore scoring. My car is 2009 plate and had 50K on the clock at purchase so I though a Porsche extended warranty is worth it. Having had an Evo and E46 M3 convertible the servicing from franchises was more expensive than your 335i costs

If you go for a PDK go for a car with a sports chrono. It adds a sport button so the car hangs on to the gears, makes quicker changes and blips the throttle for bit of aural excitement. The Sport+ button can be a bit jerky for ever day driving but it came in handy at the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone (save some money for the half-day £600). They have a number of their own tracks and having somebody sitting beside you all afternoon coaching you. Rate the low friction circuit for learning and controlling power slides. The cars steps out at 20 mph on that circuit and you can control it at those speeds:). PASM is nice if you have 19s but then you'll need to get a DSC v1 PASM controller, brings the whole system upto modern PASM standards, in fact surpasses the system in the 718.

I had a few test drives in V8 SLK55 AMGs, TTRS Roadster and E93 V8 M3 convertibles but the Boxster was is in a different class to all those other cars. Felt like a fighter jet up against bombers. Porsche just has a level of precision and feel, it's like you're carving the road with a scalpel rather than a knife. If you want something in sports car body and fast in straight line and sounds like the devils personal ride then the SLK 55 AMG is hard to beat, the sound just makes you think you're going twice as fast...

[Finchy]

Here's my 2 pence worth.

I've had 2 TT's and 2 Boxsters. 

First Boxster was a 2005 2.7 with 42k on the clock. Cracking to drive but the lack of toys bored me eventually and I sold up after 9 months and bought a 2007 TT V6 with 35k miles onwhich was fully loaded. I kept it 2 years. It never drove that well. That V6 lump up front was just too heavy for such a small car. The 2.0 TFSI is the right engine for that car. They drive so much better. I had a few things in-between then decided upon another Boxster. This time a 2011 S. Fully loaded. This is the car I should have bought first time round.

A mate of mine has just bought a 2010 2.9 gen 2 Boxster and it's awesome. More than quick enough. Fully loaded (sports crono, PDK, Bose, sports seats, 19" wheels, the bigger brakes) and 53k on the clock. He paid £15,300. That's the sweet spot I would say with what You're wanting to spend. 

[Codfanglers]

1 hour ago, Finchy said:

A mate of mine has just bought a 2010 2.9 gen 2 Boxster and it's awesome. More than quick enough. Fully loaded (sports crono, PDK, Bose, sports seats, 19" wheels, the bigger brakes) and 53k on the clock. He paid £15,300. That's the sweet spot I would say with what You're wanting to spend. 

That sounds the ideal find but it seems hard to find one like that advertised at anything like that price. At £15k It's halfway house though between a cheap fun Boxster and the 981 Cayman that I would really like as a daily. I quite like the look of this 986. Reasonable price? Assume the mileage is not excessive and it would be interesting to look at the history. Looks like it could use a new roof.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-Boxster-S-3-2-2002-Manual-Lapis-Blue-Impeccable-Service-History/133660009491?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Codfanglers]

If I could find one like this with for £15k...

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11245570

[Codfanglers]

Another potential nice one I'd consider for £15k, perhaps even with the Tiptronic.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-Cayman-987-S-Tiptronic-S/284055114848?hash=item4223011460:g:PJsAAOSw7IlgCa2a