Porsche Cayman or Audi TTS?

[Codfanglers]

Hi, My first post and looking for a bit of advice to a first world problem.

I'm considering moving from an Audi S3 (manual) to a Cayman, but don't want to make an expensive mistake. I was considering either a nearly new S3 or a 2 year old TTS, but for similar money, I could buy a Cayman. 

I realise the Audis are fast, point and shoot, full of tech, easy to drive and are doing quite a bit in the background to keep stuck to the road, but would really like something with a bit more feel, engaging and rewarding to drive.

Looking at specs, IMS issues etc, my ideal would be a 987.2 or 981 with PDK which would be a daily driver summer and winter. Looking at £20-30k+ to go this way.

Alternatively, keep the S3 and buy a 986 Boxster for £6k to see if I could live with a Porsche. This way, I wouldn't be too bothered if the engine was to let go. Or an early Cayman for £10-12k, but worry about having to pay for an engine re-build. Does anyone ever bother to replace the IMS in tiptronic cars? Are autos less likely to have been thrashed around the track?

Question is, would a 986 or even an 8 year old Porsche be a constant money pit requiring brakes, bushes, coils, exhaust parts etc. to keep it in the best condition? 

Any opinions to help make the decision or advice gratefully received.

  

[Menoporsche]

Audi are supposedly quite lux inside. I'm not sure a 987.2 interior would match it, if you are looking at a year-round daily driver. Possibly if you could find one with full leather.

981 have moved the game on by quite some way and it seems some here consider it a massive improvement (I don't follow Cayman discussion much). @Davey P you are looking at the 981C market, what do you see available these days? Is his price OK? (he wants PDK so you are not in competition!)

From what I see you have correctly summarised the TTS - faster but perhaps not quite so engaging.  It might be the one other point is are you OK with 2wd.

Of course ultimately the decision is yours, save money at the start but be prepared to pay for various work, or pay out and hope to need less work.  Though the 981C is now up to 9? years old.

IMS problems are fading into the past - bore scoring on the 987.1 3.4 is where it's at...  

[Codfanglers]

Thanks @Menoporsche,

No doubt that a 5-8 year old 981C at £27k is where the long term "value" is, but my worry is buying the car I really want, paying top money for the best I can find, then not actually liking living with it long term. That's why I'm considering an early Boxster to test the water, figuring that I won't lose as much, don't worry about losing a few £k if the engine going bang, or be stuck with an expensive car with a limited market that is difficult to sell.

The S3 is easy to live with and I know the TTS, (on paper anyway) may be a "better" performance car, but it's not a Porsche. 

The trouble is the man maths starts with a £6k Boxster and ends up with a brand new 718 with the options and colour that I want for £54k. Values have gone up recently but I doubt it will last, and my S3 is still under warranty until September so I'm in no hurry for a Cayman.

The reason I've come on here is for some advice on running 2000 - 2015 flat 6 engines, their real reliability against the horror stories and what the ongoing annual repair costs are likely to be. Yes, I'd love a dark blue, 3.2 2003 FL car for rock bottom money, but is that sensible? Would a 2.7 be less of a risk and more reliable? There are certainly more 2.7s for sale. Is that because everyone wants the 3.2 S and snaps them up because they are so much better?

 

[Davey P]

1 hour ago, Menoporsche said:

981 have moved the game on by quite some way and it seems some here consider it a massive improvement (I don't follow Cayman discussion much). @Davey P you are looking at the 981C market, what do you see available these days? Is his price OK? (he wants PDK so you are not in competition!)

From what I have seen, £25K - £30K should get you a decent looking and low mileage 2013 or 2014 Cayman (I've only been looking at manual 6 speed and 2.7 engines, not interested in an "S" just for the bragging rights).  If you want a cheap and well sorted 987.1, mine might be up for grabs for £7K fairly soon.  Well, I had to take this opportunity and give myself a free plug, it would have been rude not to, ha ha! 

[Menoporsche]

The engines were better from Model Year 2009 (ie construction July 2008) onwards. So the 987.2 and the 981.

IMS barely happens any more.  Bore scoring on the 3.4 remains a concern  for some but from what I follow it is more likely to happen in a certain driving style, most likely on track I think or very high revs then rest. No bore score risk on the 2.7.

Not sure why there are more 2.7s for sale, possibly the enthusiasts go for the 3.x and buy the little lady a 2.7?  It's a misnomer, neither is noted for their power, they are best at 5000rpm+ and in that band the displacement doesn't make much difference.  There is an argument that real enthusiasts go for the 2.7 as they can have more fun screaming the engine and not lose their licence, but few want to publicly admit to it. @Mr96er is the highest profile exception.

The other notable thing for a daily driver is the 3.x has more torque so requires less gear changing in traffic.  When many of us are used to diesel turbo family machines, the lack of torque starts to show.

In my 11 years here I might have seen 4 IMS collapses and 3 bore score victims. Possibly 8-10 cars, maybe more, lost to wet roads but hey you don't hear about them.

[Ninesomething]

Porsche. That way you don't have to put a paper bag over your head in case someone you know sees you.

 

Welcome to the forum.

[Philc]

Hopefully restrictions start to ease before September so you can get out and test drive all the versions you're intersted in.

As someone who has come from 2017 S5 to 2009 2.9 boxster, I would say it depends whether you're someone who is wowed by an interior (until it rattles) or frustrated by a drivetrain that should be so much better.  I know I like my Porsche.

[andygo]

I had a 987.1 3.4s a few years ago and whilst it didn't have bore score, (i had the bores checked) it used oil which I think was probably the bores becoming ovalised. I sold it and bought a Golf 7.5R.

 

As I drove it, brand new off the forecourt, my wife noted, "It's not as nice as a Porsche, is it?'

Had the Golf  for 34000 miles. Swapped it for a low mileage 987.2 Cayman. We arenow both much happier, even though we had fun in the Golf....

The porkers just feel nicer to drive and a bit more special to look at..

[Lonewolfgjp]

You certainly came to the right place for advice although we will all be Porsche biased 😂 

I know the TT you are looking at quite well and they are lovely car but in my opinion a bit bland and probably not a lot different to drive from the S3. Obviously the TTS would be a lot more modern inside and probably a bit more comfortable.

 I think you’re idea of starting with a cheaper Boxster is a good idea and I actually went that way myself.

Engine sizes is always debatable on here but I only have experienced the 3.2 and 3.4dfi which are both great. I would worry you would find the 2.7 a bit lacking after the S3 but you need to drive a few and see for yourself.

But if you want to save a bit of time and money I would go with a 987.2 Cayman S. Arguably the best driving and handling Cayman before they messed around with the steering and changed the gorgeous shape.

Either manual or PDK and with a full leather interior, PASM ,Sports chrono and ideally sports exhaust. This will give you a true Cayman experience on the twisting roads but with a nice level of comfort and luxury for the daily commutes

Residuals are strong as there weren’t many 987.2 models made and also the Cayman has a very strong following so you would never struggle to sell the right car.

Happy shopping 👍

[andygo]

There are only 8 987.2 Cayman S cars for sale nationwide on Pistonheds, they seem to get snapped up.

[Menoporsche]

1 hour ago, Lonewolfgjp said:

Residuals are strong as there weren’t many 987.2 models made and also the Cayman has a very strong following so you would struggle to buy the right car.

From his buyers perspective...

[Lonewolfgjp]

2 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

From his buyers perspective...

The quote on your post is wrong, I put you would never struggle to sell the right car?

[bally4563]

24 minutes ago, Lonewolfgjp said:

The quote on your post is wrong, I put you would never struggle to sell the right car?

Can’t see the problem go for a Cayman and then get a tin opener!!

[Mr96er]

22 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

The engines were better from Model Year 2009 (ie construction July 2008) onwards. So the 987.2 and the 981.

IMS barely happens any more.  Bore scoring on the 3.4 remains a concern  for some but from what I follow it is more likely to happen in a certain driving style, most likely on track I think or very high revs then rest. No bore score risk on the 2.7.

Not sure why there are more 2.7s for sale, possibly the enthusiasts go for the 3.x and buy the little lady a 2.7?  It's a misnomer, neither is noted for their power, they are best at 5000rpm+ and in that band the displacement doesn't make much difference.  There is an argument that real enthusiasts go for the 2.7 as they can have more fun screaming the engine and not lose their licence, but few want to publicly admit to it. @Mr96er is the highest profile exception.

The other notable thing for a daily driver is the 3.x has more torque so requires less gear changing in traffic.  When many of us are used to diesel turbo family machines, the lack of torque starts to show.

In my 11 years here I might have seen 4 IMS collapses and 3 bore score victims. Possibly 8-10 cars, maybe more, lost to wet roads but hey you don't hear about them.

@Menoporsche is right. 
I’ve had 2.5 2.7 and 3.2S 986 boxsters. 
I’ve stuck with the 2.7 for the reasons stated. Bags of fun without trying to bring track speeds to the roads. I know it’s not “enough” for some. But mine is a weekend toy so doesn’t have to do much but put a smile on my face every time I go out. It never fails. 

[Fish19700]

2 hours ago, Mr96er said:

@Menoporsche is right. 
I’ve had 2.5 2.7 and 3.2S 986 boxsters. 
I’ve stuck with the 2.7 for the reasons stated. Bags of fun without trying to bring track speeds to the roads. I know it’s not “enough” for some. But mine is a weekend toy so doesn’t have to do much but put a smile on my face every time I go out. It never fails. 

Similar here. Fully modded (short of turbo install) Cayman 3.4S gen 1, 987 3.4S Sport Ed Boxster and 3.2s 986, M cars, Mk7 Golf R, stage 1 etc etc, yet (perhaps I'm getting old!) I'm enjoying my 2.7 as much as, if not more. Outright top speed and 0-60 bragging rights not really my bag any more tbh. 

[Mr96er]

Someone will always have a “better” car. Foook the Jones’s in their smiley faces. 

few will have more fun, and fair play to them if they do! 

[Codfanglers]

Wow, what a response and some great advice, thank you all. 

If I go for older, I much prefer the 987 to the 986 and finding a well sorted and maintained one would be key. I don't think a reasonable gen1 Cayman would be out of the question for £10k, but Boxsters seem cheaper and as a second car a convertible would be great.   

I've spent the day looking at ads for 981s with PDK and they look gorgeous inside and out, but...

I quite like the look of this 987.1, I think it may be a bit overpriced though. Is the 3.2 and tiptronic a good combination? Assume the engine can't be overreved with this box? Are the 3.2 engines less prone to problems with this gearbox? 

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11246354

Don't know how much that steering lock will have chewed the wheel though. I can't stand a rough steering wheel. A re-trim and paddles would be in order.

Ultimate performance isn't really the goal, but does the 3.2 have more usable torque low down?

 

[½cwt]

12 hours ago, Codfanglers said:

 

Ultimate performance isn't really the goal, but does the 3.2 have more usable torque low down?

 

Given it is a normally aspirated engine it does not have the low down torque of modern turbos but once 'on cam' at about 3000 rpm and with the variable cam timing and variable inlet tracts it just keeps pulling all the way to 7200rpm.  That said it isn't weak and weedy below 3000 either just not in turbo diesel torque territory at the lower end of the range.

[Menoporsche]

12 hours ago, Codfanglers said:

Wow, what a response and some great advice, thank you all. 

If I go for older, I much prefer the 987 to the 986 and finding a well sorted and maintained one would be key. I don't think a reasonable gen1 Cayman would be out of the question for £10k, but Boxsters seem cheaper and as a second car a convertible would be great.   

I've spent the day looking at ads for 981s with PDK and they look gorgeous inside and out, but...

I quite like the look of this 987.1, I think it may be a bit overpriced though. Is the 3.2 and tiptronic a good combination? Assume the engine can't be overreved with this box? Are the 3.2 engines less prone to problems with this gearbox? 

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11246354

Don't know how much that steering lock will have chewed the wheel though. I can't stand a rough steering wheel. A re-trim and paddles would be in order.

Ultimate performance isn't really the goal, but does the 3.2 have more usable torque low down?

 

If it is overpriced, then not by much IMHO, given most people expect 10% off the sticker price.

Has xenons, heated seats and I think cruise control, all good.  Extremely rare and beautiful colour.  Also has tatty aircon buttons, we can fix those for you.

Tiptronic can be converted to flappy paddles for not much more than 100 bucks I think (DIY).  Will you be OK with the tip box? They aren't bad, just not a patch on PDK.

I really think you're over-thinking the engine reliability issue - as do many when they read about Porsches / Boxsters.

[Roger C]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:12 PM, Codfanglers said:

Hi, My first post and looking for a bit of advice to a first world problem.

I'm considering moving from an Audi S3 (manual) to a Cayman, but don't want to make an expensive mistake. I was considering either a nearly new S3 or a 2 year old TTS, but for similar money, I could buy a Cayman. 

I realise the Audis are fast, point and shoot, full of tech, easy to drive and are doing quite a bit in the background to keep stuck to the road, but would really like something with a bit more feel, engaging and rewarding to drive.

Looking at specs, IMS issues etc, my ideal would be a 987.2 or 981 with PDK which would be a daily driver summer and winter. Looking at £20-30k+ to go this way.

Alternatively, keep the S3 and buy a 986 Boxster for £6k to see if I could live with a Porsche. This way, I wouldn't be too bothered if the engine was to let go. Or an early Cayman for £10-12k, but worry about having to pay for an engine re-build. Does anyone ever bother to replace the IMS in tiptronic cars? Are autos less likely to have been thrashed around the track?

Question is, would a 986 or even an 8 year old Porsche be a constant money pit requiring brakes, bushes, coils, exhaust parts etc. to keep it in the best condition? 

Any opinions to help make the decision or advice gratefully received.

  

Here is my 2 pence, Daily is a S3 (8p) and fun weekend car is a 07 2.7 987.

The S3 is awesome, I have a 45 min commute along mainly A roads and because I work shifts its often when the roads are quiet and I can have a little bit of fun, however as awesome as the S3 is sometimes I do feel a little disconnected from it, whilst its a very capable machine with oodles of power and grip its not a pure drivers car if you know what I mean.

The 987...awesome with added awesomeness, even though its slower than the S3 its pure fun, when we got it (me and the wife used it as a 50th birthday present to each other) I really wanted a Cayman but the boss wanted a rag top so we compromised...lol, however I now love the rag top and if we ever upgrade it'll be for another Boxster. Its such a fun car and sometimes I take it work if its not raining which makes an interesting commute ever better... Would I use it as a daily...no... whilst its an awesome car after a long nightshift the box can be hard work, anyway not using it daily makes it special when you do use it.

If I was you, I'd keep the S3 and look for a nice 986 / 987 to have weekend fun in, its actually quite nice having two cars, when my S3 failed its MOT there was not a problem getting it sorted as I had the Box as a standby, also don't get too stressed about buying a 'S' the base models are more than capable (ours is a 2.7 987.1) and TBH tend to be in better condition as they haven't been owned by wannabe racing drivers... doesn't matter which you choose you will have fun.

Good luck.

Rog.

[zcacogp]

Ah, the old TT vs Box/Cayman discussion. It will rage for ever. 

To answer it, ask yourself what you look for in a car. Something that is nicely appointed inside, goes quickly and is of a very 'aspirational' brand, or something that feels like an extension of your body to the extent that you don't worry about the speed (fast or slow) and is from the best brand in the business? 

If the former then a TT will suit you just fine. If the latter then you are on the right forum. All opinions here will be biased in one direction but read the objective reviews and make your own mind up. Pistonheads had a great review of the Cayman GTS vs. Exige Sport vs. TT RS in which they described the TT as "feeling like an SUV. And not a very god one". Funnily enough they have deleted it from their website but it's available on the WayBackMachine here: 

https://web.archive.org/web/20190307191304/http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/cayman-gts-v-exige-sport-410-v-audi-tt-rs/38097

[Codfanglers]

6 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Given it is a normally aspirated engine it does not have the low down torque of modern turbos but once 'on cam' at about 3000 rpm and with the variable cam timing and variable inlet tracts it just keeps pulling all the way to 7200rpm.  That said it isn't weak and weedy below 3000 either just not in turbo diesel torque territory at the lower end of the range.

It's more does the Tiptronic torque converter sap so much of the power that it really needs the 3.2 to make up for it to bring the performance back up to 2.7 manual levels? I've driven A5 & A6s with tiptronic and liked them. I watched a Youtube vid of a tiptronic Boxster drive last night and the way it changed, I may prefer a manual. It's hard to say though and the only way I'll really know is to drive one.

[Codfanglers]

6 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

If it is overpriced, then not by much IMHO, given most people expect 10% off the sticker price.

Has xenons, heated seats and I think cruise control, all good.  Extremely rare and beautiful colour.  Also has tatty aircon buttons, we can fix those for you.

Tiptronic can be converted to flappy paddles for not much more than 100 bucks I think (DIY).  Will you be OK with the tip box? They aren't bad, just not a patch on PDK.

I really think you're over-thinking the engine reliability issue - as do many when they read about Porsches / Boxsters.

I really like the colour too and it looks/sounds a good car. 

I'm also over-thinking the Tiptronic thing too. The "Also just had Tiptronic transmission service" is translating to me as "it was starting to slip, we had the oil changed". 

I've seen the DIY flappy paddle conversion and would be the way I would go.

[Codfanglers]

2 hours ago, zcacogp said:

Ah, the old TT vs Box/Cayman discussion. It will rage for ever. 

To answer it, ask yourself what you look for in a car. Something that is nicely appointed inside, goes quickly and is of a very 'aspirational' brand, or something that feels like an extension of your body to the extent that you don't worry about the speed (fast or slow) and is from the best brand in the business? 

If the former then a TT will suit you just fine. If the latter then you are on the right forum. All opinions here will be biased in one direction but read the objective reviews and make your own mind up. Pistonheads had a great review of the Cayman GTS vs. Exige Sport vs. TT RS in which they described the TT as "feeling like an SUV. And not a very god one". Funnily enough they have deleted it from their website but it's available on the WayBackMachine here: 

https://web.archive.org/web/20190307191304/http://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/cayman-gts-v-exige-sport-410-v-audi-tt-rs/38097

I've already answered the question in my head. Done the nicely appointed / goes quickly for 7 years and now looking for something different. The Cayman 981 ticks all the boxes but would mean it would be my daily. Could I reasonably leave a 987 Boxster outside in all weathers and expect it to stay dry inside?  (wife has a fiesta and I already have a 70s classic in the garage to just use on sunny summer days). Porsche biased opinions and experience is why I've come here so any Audi bashing won't upset me. LOL. 

[map]

24 minutes ago, Codfanglers said:

Could I reasonably leave a 987 Boxster outside in all weathers and expect it to stay dry inside? 

Yes - my 2001 986 is left outside year round and has only got damp inside on two occasions:

1st was a blocked drain tube years ago which was a 10 minute fix that stays fixed because I now check the drains every few months - still only a 10 minute job.

2nd was very recent with the driver's door membrane was seemingly damaged by a snapping window regulator cable/fittings. Time consuming to resolve but not at all difficult.