Bike fell on my car

[dpg123]

I have thought about this a lot and I decided a) I wouldn't pursue the 16yo. We've all made mistakes when we're young and I'd be mortified if I got hit with a £750 bill...times are hard enough (although I do still think he needs to learn a lesson) and b) I'd pursue LIME.

So I did some research and sent them this:

Good day,

 

Further to the below, I wish to inform you that today I contacted my local Councillor for my area (Ward) in London, which is Wandsworth. My local Councillor happens to be the current Mayor for Wandsworth, Mayor Field (https://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/the-council/councillors/the-mayor-of-wandworth/the-current-mayor-of-wandsworth/). I am aware that your General Counsel for the UK, Sarah Binder, recently served as a Councillor on Wandsworth Council (https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-binder-a3210811/), recently resigning . Mayor Field happens to live on the street adjacent to mine so I intend to meet personally this/next week to discuss the matter at his home or mine.

 

Wandsworth work in conjunction with our neighbouring Councils to manage the roads and pavements in a very large area of South London, along with Transport For London (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_for_London).

 

Your unacceptable response to my complaint prompted me to research the wider issue of abandoned LIME bikes and damage to property caused by negligent damage caused, and I am not surprised by what I found. This issue goes back several years (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/03/lime-e-bike-company-wont-pay-for-900-damage-to-my-car). There are many other examples available with little research. There is a feeling of frustration and anger as to LIME’s response to complaints which are always negative.

 

As you operate on the roads and pavements in our Boroughs and Wards, I will be raising not only this issue, but also the issue of your Dock-less Bikes being repeatedly, recklessly and negligently on our streets and pavements.

 

I look forward to that meeting with Mayor Field to discuss these issues. I am still hoping that LIME can see sense and settle this matter sensibly by covering my direct costs as repeatedly illustrated with footage and quotations for repair.

 

In preparation, for my discussions with Mayor Filed, I now ask for the following information:

 

1)      The main contact in the UK for LIME (name, email and telephone number)

2)      The address for legal notices to be served in the UK (full UK address and to whom it should be addressed to)

 

I am extremely disappointed that a company that pledges to “Respect the Ride” and who supposedly promotes “responsible riding habits at every step from putting on a helmet to parking responsibly” and to which “safety and community are paramount” is completely failing to address and resolve issues that are raised by parties who are injured (either physically or through material damage) by the operation of your company.

 

I assure you that your response to this complaint will be shared with Mayor Filed and I also intend to ask how he, and his fellow Mayors and Councillors intend to ensure that LIME does not continue to leave our community with financial burdens should LIME fail to operate safely.

 

I look forward to your prompt and satisfactory response to:

 

1)      My individual complaint and claim for damage

2)      The contact details requested above

 

Kind regards,

 

I'll follow this up with contacting my MP should the response be negative.

I'm kind of fired up by this because it's a greater issue. I hate being hard done by by a big corporation and decided I'd rather put my time and effort into exposing the issue (and hopefully make it better) which will hopefully also recover my cost in the meantime, If I don't recover my cost I'll happily continue to turn the screw on an irresponsible Corporation....

Happy to take any advice on moving forward!

 

[dpg123]

2 hours ago, Boxob said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/jun/03/lime-e-bike-company-wont-pay-for-900-damage-to-my-car

From 2019. They have history.

Thanks! I also found this today - I'm really surprised at the advice/conclusion - basically you're outta luck...

[r1flyguy]

If the OP gets no joy I suggest he uses the LIME scooters as much as possible and leave them in places where acts of god render them unusable 😁

[dpg123]

Just now, r1flyguy said:

If the OP gets no joy I suggest he uses the LIME scooters as much as possible and leave them in places where acts of god render them unusable 😁

I’ll update. I hate being screwed over. I’m honestly a very reasonable person but this got my goat. What if this happened to an old lady or someone was hurt? Really annoyed me. I’ll get the car fixed (it’s only damage, not flesh). I have 2 young kids and they could easily have knocked it over the way it was left. LIME are an appalling organisation in my experience so far. Don’t use them! 

[Menoporsche]

I have taken one of your bikes home in lieu of payment. If I don’t get paid in a week I will take another. 

[mike597]

I would send a formal letter before action.  That gives a fixed time frame for a response.  No response then lodge with small claims court for them to decide.  If sounds like the evidence is pretty clear cut. You can lodge it all online it's pretty simple. 

Of course even if they rule in your favour it doesn't mean they will pay. 

Other option is claim on your insurance and let them persue lime for recovery. However they might not bother and it may go as a, claim against you. 

 

[dpg123]

Just now, mike597 said:

I would send a formal letter before action.  That gives a fixed time frame for a response.  No response then lodge with small claims court for them to decide.  If sounds like the evidence is pretty clear cut. You can lodge it all online it's pretty simple. 

Of course even if they rule in your favour it doesn't mean they will pay. 

Other option is claim on your insurance and let them persue lime for recovery. However they might not bother and it may go as a, claim against you. 

 

The company is based in US and has no publicly available contact details at all in the UK to submit a small claim to. They have plenty of UK based employees (on LinkedIn) but no way of contact here. Any email goes to the US, zero emails/addresses/phone numbers in the Uk at all. 

[mike597]

7 hours ago, dpg123 said:

The company is based in US and has no publicly available contact details at all in the UK to submit a small claim to. They have plenty of UK based employees (on LinkedIn) but no way of contact here. Any email goes to the US, zero emails/addresses/phone numbers in the Uk at all. 

We generally require that all legal documents be served at the following address: 6^th Floor, South Bank House, Barrow Street, Dublin 4, D04 TR29, Ireland.

[mike597]

7 hours ago, dpg123 said:

The company is based in US and has no publicly available contact details at all in the UK to submit a small claim to. They have plenty of UK based employees (on LinkedIn) but no way of contact here. Any email goes to the US, zero emails/addresses/phone numbers in the Uk at all. 

Tried 

UK: +44 800 808 5223

 

? 

[dpg123]

2 hours ago, mike597 said:

We generally require that all legal documents be served at the following address: 6^th Floor, South Bank House, Barrow Street, Dublin 4, D04 TR29, Ireland.

I understand that that is for their operations in Europe, mainly Germany. I sent a pre-action letter to them by email and also forwarded to this address. 

Thanks for the info though!!

[dpg123]

2 hours ago, mike597 said:

Tried 

UK: +44 800 808 5223

 

? 

Indeed, it goes straight to their US call centre, where they don't understand terms like "pavement" or "footpath". You have to talk their language and refer to "sidewalk" etc. They're also exceedingly unhelpful.

Again, I appreciate the help!

[mike597]

2 minutes ago, dpg123 said:

I understand that that is for their operations in Europe, mainly Germany. I sent a pre-action letter to them by email and also forwarded to this address. 

Thanks for the info though!!

It certainly appears that they are doing their level best to hide.  I would definitely flag your concerns as you have suggested to as many political players as you can.  My fear though is that someone further up in the political ladder is getting a regular brown envelope stuffed with cash and will suppress any concerns.

 

 

[dpg123]

38 minutes ago, mike597 said:

It certainly appears that they are doing their level best to hide.  I would definitely flag your concerns as you have suggested to as many political players as you can.  My fear though is that someone further up in the political ladder is getting a regular brown envelope stuffed with cash and will suppress any concerns.

 

 

Exactly...that's when I start spending my evenings on Social Media. People are sucked in by the marketing of companies like this - "green", "ethical", "responsible", "community" etc. People need to wake up to the idea that companies like this are having them on...

[Menoporsche]

I think using all this to destroy their "ethical" reputation on Twitter will be as effective as anything else.  It seems most companies concerned for their reputation monitor Twitter very quickly. #LimeHiding or similar could be a fun trend (#WheresLime even funnier, given it looks like We'reSlime and thus makes everyone giggle at them - stains their brand).  People like green companies but no-one like those who hide and refuse to pay up.

[McDonald]

31 minutes ago, Menoporsche said:

 (#WheresLime 

Movie fans will think of Harry Lime.

[mike597]

54 minutes ago, Menoporsche said:

I think using all this to destroy their "ethical" reputation on Twitter will be as effective as anything else.  It seems most companies concerned for their reputation monitor Twitter very quickly. #LimeHiding or similar could be a fun trend (#WheresLime even funnier, given it looks like We'reSlime and thus makes everyone giggle at them - stains their brand).  People like green companies but no-one like those who hide and refuse to pay up.

maybe we need a BoXa collective twitter onslaught to start it trending?

[dpg123]

53 minutes ago, mike597 said:

maybe we need a BoXa collective twitter onslaught to start it trending?

I'd encourage this!

[EXY]

15 hours ago, dpg123 said:

I have thought about this a lot and I decided a) I wouldn't pursue the 16yo. We've all made mistakes when we're young and I'd be mortified if I got hit with a £750 bill...times are hard enough (although I do still think he needs to learn a lesson) and b) I'd pursue LIME.

So I did some research and sent them this:

 

I'll follow this up with contacting my MP should the response be negative.

I'm kind of fired up by this because it's a greater issue. I hate being hard done by by a big corporation and decided I'd rather put my time and effort into exposing the issue (and hopefully make it better) which will hopefully also recover my cost in the meantime, If I don't recover my cost I'll happily continue to turn the screw on an irresponsible Corporation....

Happy to take any advice on moving forward!

 

As I said yesterday, I'm sorry to see this.

However I can see where the company is coming from.

They hired/rented an individual one of their bikes with presumably T&C's presented and accepted.

And here is where the problems start, can a 16 year old accept the hire without leaving a valid Ccard etc. What happens if the bike suffers a total loss, who pays, presumably the last renter? What happens if the hirer causes an Road Trafic Infringement (sorry fek knows what they call fekwittery nowadays) , who's responsible etc.

LIME rented the bike in good faith and the renter left it lying at their ar*e, I am struggling to see how that is the responsibility of LIME and not the renter.

I suspect your best chance of recovery is by pursuing the person responsible for the damage which is the renter/16 year old who walked off and heard it hit your car but kept walking. Is it possible he did it on purpose (fek yer man with the sw*nky Porsche stylee) with the plethora of other bikes falling over. Considering where the bike was abandoned is it safe to assume they live nearby?

I really am sorry to see your car was damaged through absolutely no fault of yours, I hope you get it sorted and it doesn't prevent your enjoyment of it.

[mike597]

15 minutes ago, EXY said:

As I said yesterday, I'm sorry to see this.

However I can see where the company is coming from.

They hired/rented an individual one of their bikes with presumably T&C's presented and accepted.

And here is where the problems start, can a 16 year old accept the hire without leaving a valid Ccard etc. What happens if the bike suffers a total loss, who pays, presumably the last renter? What happens if the hirer causes an Road Trafic Infringement (sorry fek knows what they call fekwittery nowadays) , who's responsible etc.

LIME rented the bike in good faith and the renter left it lying at their ar*e, I am struggling to see how that is the responsibility of LIME and not the renter.

I suspect your best chance of recovery is by pursuing the person responsible for the damage which is the renter/16 year old who walked off and heard it hit your car but kept walking. Is it possible he did it on purpose (fek yer man with the sw*nky Porsche stylee) with the plethora of other bikes falling over. Considering where the bike was abandoned is it safe to assume they live nearby?

I really am sorry to see your car was damaged through absolutely no fault of yours, I hope you get it sorted and it doesn't prevent your enjoyment of it.

I suppose the other way to look at it is to take lime out of the equation entirely.  Imagine a 16 year old riding a his/her bike (or even a borrowed bike for that matter!) hit your car.  Who's responsible for rectifying the damage?  Is it the owner of the bike or the person in charge of it at the time?

In effect the bike is borrowed property so I guess the argument is it's difficult to blame the owner for the actions of the borrower.  This opens up the whole problem with bikes and now electric scooters - the people riding them are very often not insured.

 

 

 

[dpg123]

1 hour ago, EXY said:

As I said yesterday, I'm sorry to see this.

However I can see where the company is coming from.

They hired/rented an individual one of their bikes with presumably T&C's presented and accepted.

And here is where the problems start, can a 16 year old accept the hire without leaving a valid Ccard etc. What happens if the bike suffers a total loss, who pays, presumably the last renter? What happens if the hirer causes an Road Trafic Infringement (sorry fek knows what they call fekwittery nowadays) , who's responsible etc.

LIME rented the bike in good faith and the renter left it lying at their ar*e, I am struggling to see how that is the responsibility of LIME and not the renter.

I suspect your best chance of recovery is by pursuing the person responsible for the damage which is the renter/16 year old who walked off and heard it hit your car but kept walking. Is it possible he did it on purpose (fek yer man with the sw*nky Porsche stylee) with the plethora of other bikes falling over. Considering where the bike was abandoned is it safe to assume they live nearby?

I really am sorry to see your car was damaged through absolutely no fault of yours, I hope you get it sorted and it doesn't prevent your enjoyment of it.

If you rent a car and get caught speeding or other infringement, the fine will go to the owner of the car who then forwards it to you. The police do not have to investigate who the driver was, the owner is responsible for the vehicle and it is their role to identify the driver and ensure the Police are aware. Same applies here. LIME is responsible for their property AT ALL TIMES and any damage or fines are LIMEs responsibility to identify and pursue the hirer to ensure they are settled. If their bike is off hire, no matter where it’s left, it’s not my job to try to work out who last rode it. It is LIMEs responsibility to pass on a claim.

[Clivescoobydo]

4 hours ago, EXY said:

As I said yesterday, I'm sorry to see this.

However I can see where the company is coming from.

They hired/rented an individual one of their bikes with presumably T&C's presented and accepted.

And here is where the problems start, can a 16 year old accept the hire without leaving a valid Ccard etc. What happens if the bike suffers a total loss, who pays, presumably the last renter? What happens if the hirer causes an Road Trafic Infringement (sorry fek knows what they call fekwittery nowadays) , who's responsible etc.

LIME rented the bike in good faith and the renter left it lying at their ar*e, I am struggling to see how that is the responsibility of LIME and not the renter.

- your honour when I left it it was standing on its appropriate stand!? I can only assume the wind blew over, thereby an ‘act of god’. As I said previously get your angle grinder out it will make you feel much better. Get your car repaired and move on. 

[EXY]

2 hours ago, dpg123 said:

If you rent a car and get caught speeding or other infringement, the fine will go to the owner of the car who then forwards it to you. The police do not have to investigate who the driver was, the owner is responsible for the vehicle and it is their role to identify the driver and ensure the Police are aware. Same applies here. LIME is responsible for their property AT ALL TIMES and any damage or fines are LIMEs responsibility to identify and pursue the hirer to ensure they are settled. If their bike is off hire, no matter where it’s left, it’s not my job to try to work out who last rode it. It is LIMEs responsibility to pass on a claim.

Oh dear, I really didn't want to get into an argument as I suspect you are p*ssed off enough already.

If I have read the above correctly the (car) rental company is responsible at all times for their property unless they can pass it on?

If you rent a car on a one way hire and park it at the top of a hill without applying the hand brake correctly, jump out and walk off as it rolls down the hill into the side of your car we are getting close to your predicament. 

My understanding was you were able to ascertain the last rider AND the fact they had left the bike parked poorly. I have no doubt this is in breach of their (LIME's) T&C's. 

If LIME passed the previous hirers details on to the Police would that satisfy, have you contacted the Police to report criminal damage. What did they say?

What is still confusing me is how was a 16 year old with no money able to hire what is I assume to be an expensive bike. 

 

[mike597]

1 hour ago, EXY said:

What is still confusing me is how was a 16 year old with no money able to hire what is I assume to be an expensive bike. 

Things maybe work differently on the mainland to over there. I checked the Lime app and you can connect up google pay (or presumably apple pay if you're an iSheep), a credit card or paypal.  Certainly if you're over 13 you can have a google pay account.  Both my kids (12 + 14) have got bank accounts with cards that can be connected up to google pay and my eldest uses it all the time via her phone as it's a darn sign more secure than carrying cash or a card. 

So it's perfectly reasonable to believe a 16 year old in London will have a means to sign up.

 

 

[dpg123]

1 hour ago, EXY said:

Oh dear, I really didn't want to get into an argument as I suspect you are p*ssed off enough already.

If I have read the above correctly the (car) rental company is responsible at all times for their property unless they can pass it on?

If you rent a car on a one way hire and park it at the top of a hill without applying the hand brake correctly, jump out and walk off as it rolls down the hill into the side of your car we are getting close to your predicament. 

My understanding was you were able to ascertain the last rider AND the fact they had left the bike parked poorly. I have no doubt this is in breach of their (LIME's) T&C's. 

If LIME passed the previous hirers details on to the Police would that satisfy, have you contacted the Police to report criminal damage. What did they say?

What is still confusing me is how was a 16 year old with no money able to hire what is I assume to be an expensive bike. 

 

Oh no, not at all! No argument here! You make good points!

[Menoporsche]

2 hours ago, EXY said:

What is still confusing me is how was a 16 year old with no money able to hire what is I assume to be an expensive bike. 

That's OK, when they're a 19 year old with no money they'll be able to hire a nice suit and the city's best ballroom.