Fuel pipe leak

[zcacogp]

Guys, 

I have a fuel leak. I thought that the oil-y/petrol-y smell from my 987.1c was due to the AOS, which I changed and was waiting for the smell to die down. Jasonmo was very helpful on this thread here: 

but it turned out that I was barking up the wrong tree. I have a fuel pipe leak and it looks like this: 

For reference, that's the rubber fuel hose joining onto the front end of the hard fuel pipe on the offside (driver's side) of the car. The darker brown bit (that looks like it's rusty but I don't think that it is) is wet with fuel. Given the price of petrol these days I expect that I have wasted eleventy billion pounds worth of the stuff already and I need to solve the problem quickly to prevent further costs. I suppose I should be grateful that it hasn't all gone up in smoke, eh? 

So ... this leak. And those pipes. I'd normally look at something like that and assume that it's a rubber hose that is pushed onto the hard line and it has just leaked a little, and the solution is to pull the hose off and re-attach it with a jubilee clip to help the seal. Is it this simple? It looks a bit like the rubber hose is not fully pushed home onto the hard line and I've tried to slide it back on but the rubber hose is hard - by which I mean it appears to be very stiff and possibly rigid, which leads me to wonder whether there is something not quite obvious meant to be going on in the join. That, plus the fact that this will be carrying some pressure so a push-fit wouldn't seem to be sufficient to hold things together. 

So, what do I do? Can I just pull it off and apply a jub clip? Or do I need to so something else? 

Thanks for your help. 

[zcacogp]

Update: it appears that the pipe that attaches to the rail is held on by push-fit only. At least, that's what this picture (taken from a spare parts seller's website) suggests. 

 

 

It also appears that the is only one connection to this fuel rail which is the supply line, which means that this connection is handling the full 2.5bar (or whatever it is) of fuel pressure from the pump. Surely that's not right? 

Thanks for any input anyone can offer .... ! 

Edited December 12, 2022 by zcacogp

[½cwt]

A quick look at the parts cat shown no clip for that joint.

[zcacogp]

Thanks 0.5CWT. The parts cat does indeed show no clip. 

It now looks like this: 

You'll notice two things: 

1. I've put a clip on it

2. It's still leaking. 

Having fumbled around the area there is quite a lot of crusty rustyness coming off in my hands and I wonder if the end of the fuel rail has rusted through. Which would (of course) mean a new part is necessary. 

I guess the next step is to take it off and have a closer look. Ho hummm. 

Thanks for your help. 

[zcacogp]

Update (not that anyone cares, probably): 

 

 

You can see the hole in the middle of it. New (second hand) part arriving tomorrow. 

And, as an aside, that was a complete PIG of a job to get out. Utter utter swine. Getting the fuel rail loose was pretty easy, but you then had to get the inlet manifold on that side off to get the rail out. And that was a pain in the bum. Not helped by the fact that the furthest forward bolt holding it down was both corroded and seized. I ended up grinding the top off it (thankfully access through the hatch behind the seats was pretty good) to pull the manifold off, and then fighting the remaining stump of bolt to get it to come out. And when I say 'fighting' I mean Plus Gas and heat and my biggest pair of stilsons that would fit in the hole. 

More tomorrow. Hopefully it'll go back together more easily than it came out. 

[iborguk]

1 minute ago, zcacogp said:

Update (not that anyone cares, probably): 

 

 

You can see the hole in the middle of it. New (second hand) part arriving tomorrow. 

And, as an aside, that was a complete PIG of a job to get out. Utter utter swine. Getting the fuel rail loose was pretty easy, but you then had to get the inlet manifold on that side off to get the rail out. And that was a pain in the bum. Not helped by the fact that the furthest forward bolt holding it down was both corroded and seized. I ended up grinding the top off it (thankfully access through the hatch behind the seats was pretty good) to pull the manifold off, and then fighting the remaining stump of bolt to get it to come out. And when I say 'fighting' I mean Plus Gas and heat and my biggest pair of stilsons that would fit in the hole. 

More tomorrow. Hopefully it'll go back together more easily than it came out. 

 

Nice work getting to the bottom of it and I hope it's not too painful getting it all back together.

Well done on persevering 👍

[½cwt]

It might seem a PITA and boring to you, but it is useful to know of different types of failure that these cars can suffer.  Good reporting and fault finding.

[zcacogp]

Thanks iborguk and 0.5cwt. Yes, that's a good point and it would be nice to think that this is useful for someone else in the future. 

I'm slightly curious as to why the fuel rail rusted through where it did. Has anyone else seen a failure like this? I'll be looking closely at the replacement (second-hand) pipe when it arrives tomorrow to see if that's starting to go in the same way. And I'll certainly be anointing it with some anti-rust stuff. 

[temporarychicken]

Very good solution. No doubt many others will experience this as time and corrosion takes its toll on their cars.

 

 

[edc]

Yes. Not dis similar to the PAS hose fix. 

[Boxob]

21 hours ago, zcacogp said:

I'll be looking closely at the replacement (second-hand) pipe when it arrives tomorrow to see if that's starting to go in the same way. And I'll certainly be anointing it with some anti-rust stuff. 

Probably something to add to the 987 preventative maintenance schedule (assuming anointment can be done in situ).

[zcacogp]

OK. It's done. And I am PIG SICK of the car. It's kicked my ass hard and it's not the first time it's done that. I've spent nearly two whole days on the thing and I changed the clutch in my 944 quicker than that. I am sure that it would be quicker if I did it again but I don't intend to do that for a LONG time. 

Things to note when removing fuel rails / injectors (it's pretty much the same job): 

- You can't get the fuel rails out with the manifolds in situ. Even with both the fuel rails and the manifolds unbolted it's a SERIOUS jiggle to get them out. If you could remove the radiator header tank (on the RHS) and the air filter housing (on the LHS) then it would be easier but I think that getting these out is harder than getting the inlet manifolds off. (And anyone who removes the inlet manifolds to 'clean them up' or paint them so they look spiffing under a clear engine cover is certifiably insane). You therefore need to remove the entire intake system; plenum chambers, inlet manifolds, those two big fat pipes that lie across the top of the engine, vacuum hoses a-dozen ... the lot. 

- You also need to remove the AOS on the RHS to get the fuel rail on that side out

- The front bolt on the RHS (driver's side in UK) manifold had corroded in place and wouldn't budge. Thankfully access to it is not too bad with the panel behind the seats removed but I had to grind the head off and then lift the manifold off the stub of the bolt. I then had to heat the stub hard with a blowtorch and twist it out with some grippers. That didn't help either the time taken or my mood .... 

- The two fuel lines each connect to a rubber hose that has a stiff plastic hose inside it. (This is the bit that is pictured in the first post in this thread). This is a push-fit joint and has no clip on it but the only way I could get it off was to cut it longitudinally. This would have made attaching it to the replacement fuel line very difficult. The rubber hoses from each fuel line join to a Y-shaped piece which has another hose that runs underneath the near side of the car to a clip-fit join. Thankfully I bought both new (second-hand) lines which came with the hoses, Y-piece and the hose that leads on to the clip-fit join. It seemed to make sense to therefore change both sides rather than do battle with re-attaching fuel lines. This made the job twice as long but less risky (I don't like playing with high-pressure fuel lines). 

Interestingly, my RHS fuel line had rusted through at the end nearest the front of the car, as per the photo above. (This was where the very rusty bolt was as well). The LHS fuel line was hardly rusted at all. The replacement (second-hand) RHS fuel line was also quite rusty but not quite as bad as the one that came off. I gave both replacement fuel lines a good rub down with a wire brush and a coat of Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 (I love Bilt Hamber stuff) before fitting them and will further anoint them with some Dynax S50 (I love Bilt Hamber Stuff) (have I said that before?) with a paintbrush in situ tomorrow. I can't explain the difference between the two sides but having seen two parts rusting in a similar way I suspect that this will be a common problem in times to come. 

FWIW the car fired up first time and drives fine and there are no leaks anywhere. (It fired quite a lot better when I plugged in the final injector 😀). I've cleared the consequent 'injector open circuit' fault code and there are no more fault codes from the engine, although there are a number of new ones from elsewhere in the car (driver's door module, passenger door module, 'coding fault' etc). I suspect that these are due to disconnecting the battery and then not reconnecting it cleanly - it sparked a little. However I'm fed up with the car at the moment so it can wait until tomorrow for me to tackle these, as well as putting the trim panels back in. I'm hoping that they aren't serious. 

If anyone else attempts this job you will NEED a magnet on a stick to lift the bolts out of the holes. Don't attempt it without one. A 1/4inch socket set was sufficient to do all the un-doing but you may need more tools depending upon what goes wrong. I thought about re-fitting everything with some nice shiny stainless steel fasteners but didn't as they won't stick to magnets therefore couldn't be lowered into place (or removed next time 'round)(Oh no, I said I wouldn't do this job again). 

Not many pictures as I was too busy with my hands full and dirty. I'll take some tomorrow. I'd offer photos of my hands and forearms, complete with blood, bruises and holes in the skin but fear that they may ruin the family-friendly reputation of this website so I won't. Go into your local butchers shop and ask to look at some beef mince and you'll get the right idea. 

Questions on a postcard to the usual address. Or just post them on here if it's easier. 

[Nobbie]

Well done for getting it sorted. Some jobs are just absolute pigs. When you mentioned inlet manifolds I knew it would be a bugger. Had to remove one of these on mine to replace a power steering hose😩

[Paul P]

Kudos for sorting, and sorting properly.

I am sure it was a pig of a job but you must have some satisfaction of having won this particular battle.