987.2 Front brakes

[Bike Loon]

Had the low brake pad warning come up on the dash today.

Hard to tell from looking, but thinking its the fronts. Anyone had any experience of decent replacements?

Saw this on Design 911 for this kit which includes new sensors and pins etc

https://www.design911shop.com/p/brake-pads--front--porsche-boxster-987---cayman----rear--997-s/

Edited April 5 by Bike Loon

[TROOPER88]

Stu, it should be extremely clear / easy to see through the wheels if the pads are indeed low enough to trigger the sensor.

I’d be surprised as pads have got to be so low to brake the sensor!

Much more likely a broken sensor. Go round with a good known sensor and plug it in wheel by wheel until the light goes out.

Pads wise, Textar, Pagid etc will all be fine 👍🏻

[Araf]

2 hours ago, Bike Loon said:

Had the low brake pad warning come up on the dash today.

Hard to tell from looking, but thinking its the fronts. Anyone had any experience of decent replacements?

Saw this on Design 911 for this kit which includes new sensors and pins etc

https://www.design911shop.com/p/brake-pads--front--porsche-boxster-987---cayman----rear--997-s/

I always put genuine pads on mine.  On the last car I only replaced them just before I sold it - after 40k miles so IMHO cheap pads are a false economy.

In my experience, the pads only have to be 2/3rds worn to trigger the sensor.  I'll have to find the pad comparison picture.  It's in my work computer so that won't be until Monday.

[Bike Loon]

2 minutes ago, Araf said:

I always put genuine pads on mine.  On the last car I only replaced them just before I sold it - after 40k miles so IMHO cheap pads are a false economy.

In my experience, the pads only have to be 2/3rds worn to trigger the sensor.  I'll have to find the pad comparison picture.  It's in my work computer so that won't be until Monday.

I will have a look in daylight tomorrow... at least with those wheels its easy to see through them!

When I stopped for petrol and restarted the light was not on so maybe just a false alarm...will see in the morrow. Hopefully worst case its a set of pads and 1 sensor!

 

[TROOPER88]

10 minutes ago, Araf said:

I always put genuine pads on mine.  On the last car I only replaced them just before I sold it - after 40k miles so IMHO cheap pads are a false economy.

In my experience, the pads only have to be 2/3rds worn to trigger the sensor.  I'll have to find the pad comparison picture.  It's in my work computer so that won't be until Monday.

 A new 987 front Textar pad is 17mm thick. 

I would hazard a guess that the wear sensor is about 3mm into the pads.

As above, from my experience alone, the pads have got to be very low to brake the sensor insulation and its rare. 

[½cwt]

1 hour ago, Araf said:

I always put genuine pads on mine.  On the last car I only replaced them just before I sold it - after 40k miles so IMHO cheap pads are a false economy.

In my experience, the pads only have to be 2/3rds worn to trigger the sensor.  I'll have to find the pad comparison picture.  It's in my work computer so that won't be until Monday.

Textar are the OE pads.

[T911UK]

We have those Brembo pads at £50

[Paul P]

The bl**dy shims are expensive and if you don’t know how old the pins and springs are then a new set is quite satisfying.  I would add a new set of caliper bolts - just so you know they are new and not slightly knackered and get new little screws that retain the disks - they are made of cheese and if you have to bully then out you don’t want to put them back.  

[Araf]

10 hours ago, Bike Loon said:

I will have a look in daylight tomorrow... at least with those wheels its easy to see through them!

When I stopped for petrol and restarted the light was not on so maybe just a false alarm...will see in the morrow. Hopefully worst case its a set of pads and 1 sensor!

 

If a sensor hasn't been plugged in properly then it could break contact and false alarm, but it would be unusual for this to then make contact again.

[Araf]

9 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Textar are the OE pads.

And which formula of Textar mix would that be?

[EXY]

13 hours ago, Araf said:

I always put genuine pads on mine.  On the last car I only replaced them just before I sold it - after 40k miles so IMHO cheap pads are a false economy.

I remember back in the days of Vauxhall Cavalier SRi even the tuning companies like Courtenay Sport recommended OEM pads.

There were two offerings though, budget & premium, Premium was the way to go.

[½cwt]

2 hours ago, Araf said:

And which formula of Textar mix would that be?

The clearly inferior one that they market under their own brand which is less suitable for the Porsche models they say it is compatible with.  Granted Textar is one brand of TDM friction that owns a wide range of friction materials and disc manufacturers.  Textar brand did only used to be supplied directly to OEMs before it fairly recently came to the aftermarket too.  I imagine there might be a slight variation (dare I suggest improvement?) in possibly a newer formula from the as opposed to the OE pads fitted to models 10, 15 or even 25 years ago.

This could get like the tyres argument.

[Bike Loon]

So went and had a look this morning, plenty on the fronts but the rears are low so guess I will be ordering those.

No doubt they still need the stupidly expensive anti squeal bits

[½cwt]

13 minutes ago, Bike Loon said:

So went and had a look this morning, plenty on the fronts but the rears are low so guess I will be ordering those.

No doubt they still need the stupidly expensive anti squeal bits

My 986 shims (same design) went again with no ill effects to date when I refitted all the old pads and discs after a full caliper overhaul last year.  Rear discs and pads to be changed this summer so I'll see what condition they are in then but the just clip into the pistons.

Edited April 6 by ½cwt

[TROOPER88]

1 hour ago, Bike Loon said:

So went and had a look this morning, plenty on the fronts but the rears are low so guess I will be ordering those.

No doubt they still need the stupidly expensive anti squeal bits

This should have been noted by your indy at your last service Stew.

With regard all the fitting 'furniture', you can usually re-use if you take care when stripping it all down.

I think I am only circa an hour from you, let me know if you would like me to book it in  

[Paul P]

6 hours ago, ½cwt said:

My 986 shims (same design) went again with no ill effects to date when I refitted all the old pads and discs after a full caliper overhaul last year.  Rear discs and pads to be changed this summer so I'll see what condition they are in then but the just clip into the pistons.

But they are supposed to be stuck to pads as well as clipped into pistons -  they reduce squeal by aiding pad retraction - rather than but stopping the "vibration" like the anti rattle spring type ones - all for using them again - but you need some decent double sided tape ( @T911UK linked to some once on amazon) to stick them to the pads.....

[Paul P]

6 hours ago, Bike Loon said:

No doubt they still need the stupidly expensive anti squeal bits

more expensice because there are 2 per side per caliper - 8 in all - in 2 different sizes.

[½cwt]

34 minutes ago, Paul P said:

But they are supposed to be stuck to pads as well as clipped into pistons -  they reduce squeal by aiding pad retraction - rather than but stopping the "vibration" like the anti rattle spring type ones - all for using them again - but you need some decent double sided tape ( @T911UK linked to some once on amazon) to stick them to the pads.....

I guess there must still be enough sticky between the shims and the pads I was refitting.  Reusing is handy if possible as otherwise it is £50 or £60 most of us would rather not spend on the older cars at least.

Edited April 6 by ½cwt

[Paul P]

14 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

I guess there must still be enough sticky between the shims and the pads I was refitting.  Reusing is handy if possible as otherwise it is £50 or £60 most of us would rather not spend on the older cars at least.

agree 100% - they are far too much money - even 3rd party - when I did the rears on mine - one side was still stuck onto the pads - the other side had pulled the paint off the pad and was "detached" - for what they are - it's robbery. Next time around I will be reusing mine, with the tape that I have - which was the one previously mentioned.

I just figure the fact that the factory spec is for them to be stuck to the pads then there's a point to it - but i just dont see how/why a bean tin lid with a a sticker and a rivetted on interference fit spring is so much money

[Bike Loon]

Mine will be reused, did the same on my 986S years ago

[Paul P]

Absolutely in agreement re “re-use” .  

Just the point is “supposed to stick to pad” so perhaps a roll of this is appropriate.  (Not used this for pads so far but it’s stuck a piece a laminate flooring trim in place like it was made as one piece from the factory) 

 

https://amzn.eu/d/e0QND8T

as always - everyone’s individual  car/choice/money/opinion  but in my opinion - not sticking the shims to the pads is not doing the whole job.  Same as if you bought new shims and left the protective paper on the sticky face.  
 

Whilst they can and do take the p*as in the service / maintenance space I think “they did this in the factory - there’s a spreadsheet somewhere that says - Value of doing > cost of implementing on production line” 

as ever.  Just my opinion. 

[Geordie40]

Oops  I re used my old ones but they are not stuck to the pads, didnt know they were supposed to be stuck to the pads, No squeal yet!!

[Ninesomething]

I broke one of the sensors when I did my rears so I just cut them off and shorted the wires out. Dash light🙄 if you don't know when your pads are worn out well you darned well ought to. That said at my current rate of use I'll be old and deaf by the time this set wear out so I probably won't hear them.

[Araf]

On 4/5/2024 at 9:48 PM, TROOPER88 said:

 A new 987 front Textar pad is 17mm thick. 

I would hazard a guess that the wear sensor is about 3mm into the pads.

As above, from my experience alone, the pads have got to be very low to brake the sensor insulation and its rare. 

You'll have to hazard another guess.  I finally remembered to look up the picture from over 10 years ago, when I had to change pads due to the sensor activating.  Just over 1/2 worn or 2/3rds worn at best.

 

[TROOPER88]

54 minutes ago, Araf said:

You'll have to hazard another guess.  I finally remembered to look up the picture from over 10 years ago, when I had to change pads due to the sensor activating.  Just over 1/2 worn or 2/3rds worn at best.

 

As above, a new Textar pad is 17mm thick and a 986 Textar pad being 15mm thick AFAIK.

I would hazard a guess that the diameter of the brake pad wear sensor hole to be circa 3-4mm. Therefore, taking the 987 as the example, the sensor insulation would not be broken until 14mm of the pad material had been used. This would roughy equate to 85% used and 15% remaining. 

I think what you are suggesting is that your brake wear sensor was triggered after only circa 50% of the pads life. If this is the case, then something was very wrong with the pads you used.