I’m a little confused!

[Spinneyman]

1 hour ago, RBD914 v2 said:

No the other way around - PASM best for road use and stiff lowered suspension option best for track use.

In PASM equipped cars, remember the active suspension is always on and working. The cabin button allows you to soften or firm up the suspension depending on the road being driven or driving dynamic required. However even the firmest setting is not as stiff as the lowered Sports Suspension equipped cars without PASM.

Now go drive a PASM car fitted with a PDK box and paddle shifts, press the sport button and drive it in anger - then tell us what you think of PDK!

As a strong advocate of the manual gearbox, I was amazed how much faster and easier it is to drive a PDK car. So much so that I bought one - love it!

Thanks for the PASM clarification.  Think I’ve got it now!

Good advice re PASM/sport/paddles test drive.

 

 

[Spinneyman]

49 minutes ago, djy said:

Hi, 

I live in the New Forest. You're welcome to have a proper look over my 981S and I'll talk you through all the spec and the options. Mine is fully loaded with kit:

 

Sport Chrono

PASM

PSE

PTV diff

PDLS

Extended leather

PCM 3.1 with bluetooth, Bose etc....

etc......

 

It's an awesome car with all the toys on. I can take you out for a drive, show you what the paddles can do with Sport Chrono. 

 

Dan 

Thanks for the offer Dan.  Would love to take you up on it.  Can you let me know when convenient and your address please?

Regards

Peter

07712 614984

[djy]

23 minutes ago, Spinneyman said:

Thanks for the offer Dan.  Would love to take you up on it.  Can you let me know when convenient and your address please?

Regards

Peter

07712 614984

Sure. Currently at work, sent you a text. 

[Spinneyman]

 

Hi, thanks to those who have helped sort out the PASM/Sports suspension issue.

Today I found a recently list car which has a superb spec (Romans near Gatwick). Unfortunately it has sports suspension.  Does anyone know if this can be put back to the standard GTS PASM?

 

[Stuart21UK]

PASM photo for anyway who hasnt already seen it...

[daz05]

8 hours ago, Spinneyman said:

 

Hi, thanks to those who have helped sort out the PASM/Sports suspension issue.

Today I found a recently list car which has a superb spec (Romans near Gatwick). Unfortunately it has sports suspension.  Does anyone know if this can be put back to the standard GTS PASM?

 

Have you tried it first? Sports suspension won't necessarily make it a pain to drive on the road. Good chance you'll quite like it Porsche know how to set up their cars.

Retrofitting pasm will be a major headache because of the wiring and sensors and integration with the ecu. Swapping to base spec will be much simpler but not advised

[RBD914 v2]

Yes definitely test drive it before you decide. Personally I found the sports suspension too hard for the type of roads I drive on, but you may think differently.

Let us know how you get on!

[Spinneyman]

I guess it may come down to what roads the car ends up driven on.   When I take my 987 out I prefer my local A & B non dual carriageway and around where I live that means encountering lots of pot holes.  Also I have a concern scraping the front underside when going over uneven ground, given it will be 20mm lower all the time, (my local MOT garage manages this on my current car unless I’m there to remind them!).    

However I will have a word with my local OPC and try and get a test ride and pick their brains.

Once again, thanks for the advice.

 

[Jofoley]

I bought an 18mth old 981s back in Dec 2015. In all my 35plus years of driving I have never had or wanted an auto box.

I love paddle shift PDK. Wouldn’t go back. My daily is manual and still very happy with it, but PDK on the Boxster is fabulous. I wouldn’t want the button option though.

[Jonttt]

On 26/01/2018 at 9:16 AM, 911-32 said:

$0.02 = paddleshifts suck and are not intuitive or sporty.  There, I said it  .  Seriously though, PDK/double clutch is a tool to get better lap times in racing and to get better fuel economy in artificial mpg tests.  They are less good at being automatics than automatics and are less good at being manuals than real manual gearboxes.  Porsche developed PDK for racing and never thought of putting it in road cars, likewise Audi in rally cars.  It took computer control and VW to put it in road cars and that was for mpg and the ability to charge more for it.

Having said that, I have a daily that is paddleshift.  It has honestly taken me a year to intuitively change gear on paddles without having to think about it and my wife's diesel auto with paddles and 8 gears is utterly beyond my intuition.  I find the old BMW push/pull paddles more intuitive than the left right PDK/Ferrari etc type paddles. I suspect I am in the minority though.

For the sportscars in my life, it has to be a manual in order to get that extra level of interaction and satisfaction.  I get it, its ultimately slightly slower and that extra interaction may have little or no value for others.  If you are like me and love the challenge of picking apart a racetrack or a twisty road, then the manual has value, if you get your buzz some other way then make a different choice.  I am weird - I get a buzz changing gears with 3 pedals just driving to the supermarket and never getting above 4000rpm.

Now there is an example of someone who does not know what they are talking about lol......

FWIW I had made the decision to try a PDK when I was looking for a good spec S or GTS. As an aside I gave up on the S search when I realised a) there is no such thing as a GTS spec S and b getting one even close was taking too long. I also thing a good spec GTS will have a cheaper total cost of ownership if you are able to / can tie up the extra capital in the car (same running costs etc....).

Anyway back to the PDK thing, mine is also a none daily / toy and it probably took me a couple of days or so to get used to the PDK. You have to drive it in manual every time to get used to it, not just occassionally. However you soon get the the point of instinctively changing gears without looking a the revs ie as per a manual, you learn to drive it by feel and it suddenly clicks and becomes intuative. At that point it hits you, "yeh, this is why its soooo good". The porsche PDK system is one of the best auto boxes on the market. It makes me drive the car harder and basically have more fun in it than a manual wood, even in auto (the sport button gets pressed every time in auto mode) the auto downshifts just make you laugh. Linked to the GTS soundtrack and its as good a place to sit for a quick blast as any car out there (and I'm currently comparing that to a 488 spider). 

GTS PDK have a premium for a reason and where the market is going there is no reason why they are not a safe low total cost of ownership cars that you can put a few thousand miles on a year and be content that your having as much fun as someone who has paid £200k+ for a car ;-)

[911-32]

Despite the fact that you have no "smiley" in your first line, I will take it in good humour, even though telling me I don't know what I am talking about is a fairly punchy first line 

However, you have rather missed my point.  Far from not knowing what I am talking about, I know exactly what is important to ME and what MY experience has been and I tried to explain why.  But more importantly, I acknowledged the other side of the argument and even stated that I am probably in the minority and that I might be weird.  So don't feel that your choice of PDK is under some kind of threat, just accept that there is a contrary view to your own view, that we can all prioritise what is important to us as individuals and that we can all live comfortably in this broad church of driving enthusiasts.  If the extra level of interaction provided by a third pedal is not important to you, that is fine - I am not trying to change your mind.  I just offered a counterpoint to what was a lot of pro PDK posts.  There is a small but significant minority that values manual gearboxes.  Membership is not compulsory.  Porsche have by reintroducing manuals to the real GT series cars.

And for the record, the point I made on the origins of PDK are (within the constraints of brevity) factually correct.

Here's an extra good humoured smiley just for you Jonttt -  .  No hard feelings.

 

[Greenman]

I’m not sure you are in the minority in wanting a manual involvement in a drivers car, just look at the demand for the Porsche manual GT and limited editions, sure PDK does outsell manuals but I suspect it’s because a lot of it is due to the daily use aspect of PDK.

However it seems that many manual evangelists have never driven a PDK or if they have it was just a 1/2 hour test drive, if heal and toe really gives you most of your kicks then clearly you can’t get that from a PDK, but the PDK involvement comes in different areas. Keeping the hands fully on the wheel whilst changing gear is a huge advantage; lightning changes whilst acceleration are ace, not because you do 0-60 0.2 seconds quicker but because you keep the engine roaring away and get a great crack from the exhaust; being able to swap down /up a gear and back up/down again between corners that you would never consider in a manual etc etc.

Ive heard the odd person say the PDK isn’t intuitive but I just don’t get this as all. The manual box certainly isn’t intuitive but obviously after years of use and learning it becomes so well learned that it becomes intuitive. The PDK is much simpler in operation and for me within 1/2 and hour seems totally natural, of course it may take some longer but I can’t imagine that anyone after a few days use would have any issues.

So point being they are intuitive and certainly sporty, that doesn’t mean you have to buy one, both manual and PDK offer great involvement in different ways.

 

[Happy Days]

On 25/01/2018 at 11:34 PM, Spinneyman said:

 

I have test driven a PDK.  No paddles, just buttons on the steering wheel.  Hated it.  Got on a little better when switched to the gear stick. 

I don't think this was a PDK car - I think it was the old tiptronic which basically was an autobox with the controls on the steering wheel The PDK is a dual clutch gearbox which is something completely different altogether.

[Greenman]

25 minutes ago, Happy Days said:

I don't think this was a PDK car

Maybe, maybe not.  Certainly in the 981 era even with PDK the default option steering wheel had the sliding buttons on the steering wheel, you had to pay extra for the (superb) sport design wheel to get paddles.

[daz05]

The people that say manual is more involving are right, it is. Driving down your favourite road, changing gear manually and rev matching for the down change is more fun and challenging.

However, the issue with manual in the 981 is that the gearing is too long and therefore you end up changing gear more often in the pdk which kind of defeats the purpose. PDK is also so good that it's a sacrifice you can make fairly easily.

Unfortunately we need PDK to keep our fancy looking sports cars ahead of modern hot hatches too but that's less important!

[Spinneyman]

On 26/01/2018 at 8:44 AM, djy said:

Hi, 

I live in the New Forest. You're welcome to have a proper look over my 981S and I'll talk you through all the spec and the options. Mine is fully loaded with kit:

 

Sport Chrono

PASM

PSE

PTV diff

PDLS

Extended leather

PCM 3.1 with bluetooth, Bose etc....

etc......

 

It's an awesome car with all the toys on. I can take you out for a drive, show you what the paddles can do with Sport Chrono. 

 

Dan 

Just wanted to say thank you to Dan for the exhilarating drive we had yesterday in his 981.  It’s certainly wetted my appetite for a paddle test drive.  I’ll post result once completed. 

[djy]

52 minutes ago, Spinneyman said:

Just wanted to say thank you to Dan for the exhilarating drive we had yesterday in his 981.  It’s certainly wetted my appetite for a paddle test drive.  I’ll post result once completed. 

You're welcome. Great to meet you. I'm glad you liked the car, hope I didn't go too fast! 

Look forward to seeing what you eventually buy. 

[911-32]

4 hours ago, daz05 said:

However, the issue with manual in the 981 is that the gearing is too long

This is a good point that I had forgotten.  It was a concern that was front of mind when I test drove a range of 987s and 981s.

[Patt]

I think with the smaller engine the longer gearing may well prove more useful, as I'm told you have to use more of the rev range to progress.

However I still think well over 80mph in 3rd leaves 3 cogs for economy and a reasonable 0-60 time ie pointless waist on the majority of situations.

 

[daz05]

5 hours ago, Patt said:

I think with the smaller engine the longer gearing may well prove more useful, as I'm told you have to use more of the rev range to progress.

However I still think well over 80mph in 3rd leaves 3 cogs for economy and a reasonable 0-60 time ie pointless waist on the majority of situations.

 

Quite the opposite there's not enough torque down low and 2nd goes over 80 iirc.

[Stuart21UK]

 

2 hours ago, daz05 said:

Quite the opposite there's not enough torque down low and 2nd goes over 80 iirc.

there's plenty of torque in an S...Patt is correct below - 3 accelerating gears and 3 cruise ones (4/5/6)...

7 hours ago, Patt said:

I think with the smaller engine the longer gearing may well prove more useful, as I'm told you have to use more of the rev range to progress.

However I still think well over 80mph in 3rd leaves 3 cogs for economy and a reasonable 0-60 time ie pointless waist on the majority of situations.

 

....and whoever said that you need PDK to keep up with modern hot hatches is wrong (probably neither do that very well in normal road driving), the PDK is not really any faster than a manual (unless you count launch control) or the measly 0.1 seconds to 60 mph....all that rubbish about changing gears more quickly fails to acknowledge that in most situations I dont need to change more than 1 or 2 gears anyway i.e. a fast country road blast would be probably mostly 2nd & 3rd or 3rd & 4th PLUS having driven a PDK 718 last week for 3 days and comparing it to my manual 981...I have absolutely no delay in pick up from a standing start...none is immidiate...whereas every PDK I have ever driven has that minute millisecond (feels like half a second) dealy before my foot action turns into forward motion...

There....off soap box, and off to bed

[Happy Days]

4 hours ago, mneil said:

Fifth Gear testing two Caymans; manual and the 30kg heavier PDK. Appears that there is a case for either ? and also entertaining. 

But what will I do with my left foot now that they've taken away the mainbeam to dip switch and put it on a silly stalk?.

You're giving your age away now!

[daz05]

16 hours ago, Stuart21UK said:

 

there's plenty of torque in an S...Patt is correct below - 3 accelerating gears and 3 cruise ones (4/5/6)...

....and whoever said that you need PDK to keep up with modern hot hatches is wrong (probably neither do that very well in normal road driving), the PDK is not really any faster than a manual (unless you count launch control) or the measly 0.1 seconds to 60 mph....all that rubbish about changing gears more quickly fails to acknowledge that in most situations I dont need to change more than 1 or 2 gears anyway i.e. a fast country road blast would be probably mostly 2nd & 3rd or 3rd & 4th PLUS having driven a PDK 718 last week for 3 days and comparing it to my manual 981...I have absolutely no delay in pick up from a standing start...none is immidiate...whereas every PDK I have ever driven has that minute millisecond (feels like half a second) dealy before my foot action turns into forward motion...

There....off soap box, and off to bed

I'm sure you can acknowledge that under 4000 rpm the flat 6 is well, a bit flat.

The gearing creates the difference in pace not so much the speed of the gear change. With pdk you get into the power band quicker and more often than the manual. I was pleased to have pdk when being hassled by new Focus RS.

If you were to shorten the gearing in the manual then the gap would be much less obvious.

 

[Stuart21UK]

5 hours ago, daz05 said:

I'm sure you can acknowledge that under 4000 rpm the flat 6 is well, a bit flat.

The gearing creates the difference in pace not so much the speed of the gear change. With pdk you get into the power band quicker and more often than the manual. I was pleased to have pdk when being hassled by new Focus RS.

If you were to shorten the gearing in the manual then the gap would be much less obvious.

 

yep 4000 rpm it starts to liven up, no doubt about that...

[djy]

It's sometimes difficult to get a real feel for whether a car is right for you on a short test drive (although I loved mine on the test drive and knew I had to have it!). 

It's a lot of money to spend on a car if you're not sure whether the manual/PDK choice is the right one. You already have a manual, so I would recommend finding a PDK car which is available to hire for 24 hours. Plan a trip in it and do some miles. Around town and empty country roads, see how it suits you. Ideally find one with PDK and Sports Chrono with the Sport Design steering wheel though, as it makes a difference. As you've already found out, the buttons and gearstick aren't as natural to use as the paddles. 

Something like this:

https://exoticcars.enterprise.co.uk/en/vehicles/porsche-boxster-s.html

When I had my car hire company, I often hired my cars out to people who were considering buying one. It's worth the £200 per day to get a real good feel of the car, without the salesman in the passenger seat.