I’m a little confused!

[Spinneyman]

Hi, I’m trying to decide on my next car and hope the members may be able to help?  I currently have a 987 Boxster S manual and want to upgrade it to a 981caymen or boxster GTS or equivalent S spec.  I also want a manual, but I’ve been surprised at the low volumes of manuals (given most for sale are PDK).  So I have three questions.  Why so few manuals and given they’re supposed to be “the Drivers Car”.  Where is the best place to buy my next car? (Car sites or car clubs?.)   GTS or loaded S spec?

Thanks in anticipation of any help given.

 

[Boxster981S]

981 GTS are really holding their value expect to pay 45k upwards prob 50k for a good spec where as a decent S with the same spec as a base GTS (pasm, pse) plus a few other goodies will more likely be 40k. But the GTS does look better and have more hp.

Manuals seem hard to find mainly because fewer were ordered, also they are slightly slower 0-60 and the PDK is a really great car, you will limit your market looking at manuals. Saying that my friend has a manual cayman 981 and the gear box is awesome great gear change.

As for where to look forums are good, auto trader probably has the best selection. Don’t rule out OPC might pay a premium (1-2k) but you normally get lower mileage full history cars with a 2 year warranty plus European roadside assistance.

[jimmy p]

Unless it is going to be a daily driver in city traffic the manual is great and as the cars get older and fall onto more enthusiast hands the manuals will get more sought after!

[Stuart21UK]

36 minutes ago, Boxster981S said:

981 GTS are really holding their value expect to pay 45k upwards prob 50k for a good spec where as a decent S with the same spec as a base GTS (pasm, pse) plus a few other goodies will more likely be 40k. But the GTS does look better and have more hp.

Manuals seem hard to find mainly because fewer were ordered, also they are slightly slower 0-60 and the PDK is a really great car, you will limit your market looking at manuals. Saying that my friend has a manual cayman 981 and the gear box is awesome great gear change.

As for where to look forums are good, auto trader probably has the best selection. Don’t rule out OPC might pay a premium (1-2k) but you normally get lower mileage full history cars with a 2 year warranty plus European roadside assistance.

its like yellow cars....the colour maybe a bit marmite but anyone looking for a Yellow car will find there are few around, and so they still sell as well as a normal 'less out there colour'

as far as 0-60 time...it was 0.1 secs different 5.0 to 5.1 in the PDK, unless you take into account launch control then it was 0.3 (4.8 secs)....(ALL on the S that is)

 

lol....I constantly feel like I'm holding the banner for the manual transmission here...I'll tell you I have no regrets with mine though

[Jason986S]

Manual FTW....

p.s tell me more about the 987 that may come up for sale?

[Gorsh]

Welcome to the forum.  If you haven't driven a 981 PDK I would advise trying one yourself before making a final decision, it's pretty obvious there is nothing wrong with the manual (apart from being a bit too high geared), but the PDK sells in high numbers for good reason.  A dual clutch gearbox doesn't mean it's not a drivers car, it's a simple personal choice.  As stated above the GTS is more exclusive but you will pay more for it compared to a more or less identical spec S.  Most cars for sale get on Autotrader, but worth checking Pistonheads and other forums as well - generally the newer (and more expensive) the car the fewer are sold privately - but they are out there.  Good luck!

[daz05]

Three things impacted manual sales on the 981, the first is that pdk is very good to use and makes the car feel faster the it should be. The second was probbalt fear of a lower residual but the real deal breaker for me was the long gearing in the manual cars. Great box and change, but frustratingly they are too far apart. Try both and decide for yourself.

If you are happy to pay more upfront go for a GTS but the best value is in a well spec'd S, I believe both will hold their value well, manual or pdk.

 

[GTB981]

10 hours ago, Stuart21UK said:

its like yellow cars....the colour maybe a bit marmite but anyone looking for a Yellow car will find there are few around, and so they still sell as well as a normal 'less out there colour'

as far as 0-60 time...it was 0.1 secs different 5.0 to 5.1 in the PDK, unless you take into account launch control then it was 0.3 (4.8 secs)....(ALL on the S that is)

 

lol....I constantly feel like I'm holding the banner for the manual transmission here...I'll tell you I have no regrets with mine though

Nothing wrong with yellow :lol love mine with the black contrasting bits. PDK is a great gearbox and the GTS howl is addictive.

[Davidbf1.com]

2 hours ago, GTB981 said:

.... PDK is a great gearbox and the GTS howl is addictive.

^^^

[Patt]

I've drove both gearboxes. Both are good and the choice was down to the car and options when I bought.

im still adjusting to PDK, but it's more of an adjustment to auto stop and electronic handbrake for me.

[Stuart21UK]

2 hours ago, Patt said:

I've drove both gearboxes. Both are good and the choice was down to the car and options when I bought.

im still adjusting to PDK, but it's more of an adjustment to auto stop and electronic handbrake for me.

the Auto Stop was never an issue for me, the electronic handbrake however....at least one time I walked away from the car and found it starting to roll away (not a problem you would have with PDK after putting it in P)

[Greenman]

I had similar thoughts when I bought mine 18 months ago (S vs GTS) IMO the GTS was a good buy new but the Premium for the GTS on the S/h market was too much. GTS prices have softened a bit since but still have a significant premium over a well specced S, however it’s likely that the premium will be maintained so you are not likely to lose any more on a GTS than an S. Also do not assume the PDK is not the drivers choice, it has many advantages over the manual

[Toeside]

My advice is try the PDK in a test drive and then make the choice on your personal preference. I went from all previous manual cars and sports cars (Z4, 987S) to PDK in the 981. For me I was sold and have never regretted the move. 

 

[drago.d]

On 26/12/2017 at 8:06 PM, Spinneyman said:

Hi, I’m trying to decide on my next car and hope the members may be able to help?  I currently have a 987 Boxster S manual and want to upgrade it to a 981caymen or boxster GTS or equivalent S spec.  I also want a manual, but I’ve been surprised at the low volumes of manuals (given most for sale are PDK).  So I have three questions.  Why so few manuals and given they’re supposed to be “the Drivers Car”.  Where is the best place to buy my next car? (Car sites or car clubs?.)   GTS or loaded S spec?

Thanks in anticipation of any help given.

 

Re: manual or PDK - where are you based, Spinneyman? And is this going to be your daily driver or a weekend car?

The manual vs. PDK is a tough call. I had the same dilemma earlier this autumn; going from a manual 987 S to a 981 S/GTS, with either manual or PDK. I’d test driven a couple of cars with PDK, but came away unsure if it was my cup of tea. I was sure it needed to be another manual in order for the new car to give me the same level of driver involvement and fun. Then I visited Porsche Brooklands.

The guys there had examples with both gearboxes, and were most willing, insistent even, to demonstrate and to give me a “proper” drive with the PDK, encouraging me to make full use of it during the road-tests in a Cayman GTS and Boxster 981 2.7, both with PDKs. Needless to say it was an eye-opener, even in the 2.7. I didn’t buy either car, but I realised the PDK could be a lot of fun in its own right. This changed my search preferences for the 981, and in looking for both manuals and PDK cars it opened up a much wider selection. (To respond to your 2nd & 3rd questions; mine came from OPC Hatfield. For the kind of money in question I wanted the reassurance of the full manufacturer prep, 2yr warranty etc. In the end I found a wonderfully specc’ed S that just looked so amazing in Guards Red that I knew it was the one - even though I only saw it in a video from the dealer until the day I collected it ?).

After 2 months how do I feel, now I’ve chosen to go with a PDK car? Well, the feeling of involvement with the PDK is different vs that from my 987 with its gear lever and 3 pedals. But the PDK still gives the option to select manual mode and change gears as fast as you like, and when using the gear selector to make the changes I have to admit I do feel as though I’m still a big part of the driving process. My car has the paddles too, but I find I use them when I’m being lazy, and use the selector when I’m “on it”. Those times I’m out for a play and the traffic allows I don’t feel too short-changed (although I miss being able to execute a well-judged heel & toe on downshifts). However, mine is now my daily driver instead of a weekend car, and so a lot of the driving is in traffic, and for that the auto mode is actually a big “win”, bigger than any downside to it not being manual. If it were still my weekend toy, then maybe I might have waited for the right manual to come along, but as you rightly point out they seem few and far between. 

And as Greenman says:

On 27/12/2017 at 3:58 PM, Greenman said:

Also do not assume the PDK is not the drivers choice, it has many advantages over the manual

Cheers,

drago.d

[Happy Days]

Also factor in that, probably at some stage of your ownership, the clutch will need replacing. Probably looking an indy bill of around £1,000? If the PDK model is at a premium, this may affect the thinking. When I was at the PEC doing the driving day, the instructor reckoned that the PDK gave little trouble and that the launch control system gives no bother, unlike other manufacturers' systems which measure the number of launch starts. Not that I have ever used launch, but you know what I mean by the reliability issue.

Oh, my 718S is manual and the McCann is of course PDK as they all are so I do own both.

[Spinneyman]

Wow! I have just discovered I have a bunch of replies that I didn’t know about.  Firstly my apologies for my late thank you to all who have offered their advice.  Very helpful.  I had assumed I would get an email flagging that someone was replying, but I guess that doesn’t happen.

Anyway by way of an update:  I am more inclined now to go for the Cayman.  Mainly as it will be a significant change from my Boxster and the new 981 shape seems to be getting more and more attractive to me!  Whether GTS or S comes down to spec/provenance/and colour combination.  I’ve found a couple but their interior colours were such that I just couldn’t see myself living with them.  

I have test driven a PDK.  No paddles, just buttons on the steering wheel.  Hated it.  Got on a little better when switched to the gear stick.  But still manual biased.  Like the idea of someone guiding me through the benefits of maybe paddle PDK and I’m not a million miles from the brookland dealer.  My local dealer isn’t that great.

If there’s still some interest out there I’ve a question about GTS and PASM.  Some GTS show the switchable button for PASM and some don’t.  Does this mean that not all GTS’s can switch between both, as I scan now on my Boxster?

Thanks Boxster981S for the values.  I’m finding prices are significantly higher e.g. there are well spaced GTS Caymens out there asking nearly £52000 to £65000!!!!  Have they started to appreciate?

To answer a couple of questions:

Drago.d:  I live in the New Forest.and it will be my weekend occasional long drive car. (Thanks for the info on Brooklands.)

Jason 986S:  3.4L,  2007, manual, dark blue 29300miles, black interior.  FSH from main and indie.  I think it’s got every conceivable option, bar front parking sensors.  I will almost certainly sell privately unless the dealer I buy from makes an offer I can’t refuse.

[RBD914 v2]

On the GTS you get switchable PASM as standard, however as an option you can specify the stiffer lowered sports suspension, but you cannot also have PASM with this option for some reason.

The GTS cars that you see without the PASM button will have the stiffer lowered sports suspension fitted.

For reference, I like the look of the lowered cars but the suspension is far to stiff for a comfortable ride on our roads and would suit track day aficionados better.

Also try a paddle equipped PDK car and you will be smitten!

[RBD914 v2]

5 minutes ago, Spinneyman said:

Wow! I have just discovered I have a bunch of replies that I didn’t know about.  Firstly my apologies for my late thank you to all who have offered their advice.  Very helpful.  I had assumed I would get an email flagging that someone was replying, but I guess that doesn’t happen.

Anyway by way of an update:  I am more inclined now to go for the Cayman.  Mainly as it will be a significant change from my Boxster and the new 981 shape seems to be getting more and more attractive to me!  Whether GTS or S comes down to spec/provenance/and colour combination.  I’ve found a couple but their interior colours were such that I just couldn’t see myself living with them.  

I have test driven a PDK.  No paddles, just buttons on the steering wheel.  Hated it.  Got on a little better when switched to the gear stick.  But still manual biased.  Like the idea of someone guiding me through the benefits of maybe paddle PDK and I’m not a million miles from the brookland dealer.  My local dealer isn’t that great.

If there’s still some interest out there I’ve a question about GTS and PASM.  Some GTS show the switchable button for PASM and some don’t.  Does this mean that not all GTS’s can switch between both, as I can now on my Boxster?

Thanks Boxster981S for the values.  I’m finding prices are significantly higher e.g. there are well spaced GTS Caymens out there asking nearly £52000 to £65000!!!!  Have they started to appreciate?

To answer a couple of questions:

Drago.d:  I live in the New Forest.and it will be my weekend occasional long drive car. (Thanks for the info on Brooklands.)

Jason 986S:  3.4L,  2007, manual, dark blue 29300miles, black interior.  FSH from main and indie.  I think it’s got every conceivable option, bar front parking sensors.  I will almost certainly sell privately unless the dealer I buy from makes an offer I can’t refuse.

See above - quoted you so you get a red flag notification!

[Spinneyman]

Thanks for the quick response.  So are you saying that PASM is mainly for tracking?  It also diminishes the GTS appeal bar the look of a lower car.   I have to admit I don’t use my PASM hardly and only have it as a ‘must have’ on my next car, so it improves my re-sale value.  If so then it would make more cars available re my saearch and also maybe cheaper.

[Spinneyman]

6 minutes ago, RBD914 v2 said:

See above - quoted you so you get a red flag notification!

Got it.  Thanks!

[RBD914 v2]

7 hours ago, Spinneyman said:

Thanks for the quick response.  So are you saying that PASM is mainly for tracking?  It also diminishes the GTS appeal bar the look of a lower car.   I have to admit I don’t use my PASM hardly and only have it as a ‘must have’ on my next car, so it improves my re-sale value.  If so then it would make more cars available re my saearch and also maybe cheaper.

No the other way around - PASM best for road use and stiff lowered suspension option best for track use.

In PASM equipped cars, remember the active suspension is always on and working. The cabin button allows you to soften or firm up the suspension depending on the road being driven or driving dynamic required. However even the firmest setting is not as stiff as the lowered Sports Suspension equipped cars without PASM.

Now go drive a PASM car fitted with a PDK box and paddle shifts, press the sport button and drive it in anger - then tell us what you think of PDK!

As a strong advocate of the manual gearbox, I was amazed how much faster and easier it is to drive a PDK car. So much so that I bought one - love it!

[djy]

9 hours ago, Spinneyman said:

Wow! I have just discovered I have a bunch of replies that I didn’t know about.  Firstly my apologies for my late thank you to all who have offered their advice.  Very helpful.  I had assumed I would get an email flagging that someone was replying, but I guess that doesn’t happen.

Anyway by way of an update:  I am more inclined now to go for the Cayman.  Mainly as it will be a significant change from my Boxster and the new 981 shape seems to be getting more and more attractive to me!  Whether GTS or S comes down to spec/provenance/and colour combination.  I’ve found a couple but their interior colours were such that I just couldn’t see myself living with them.  

I have test driven a PDK.  No paddles, just buttons on the steering wheel.  Hated it.  Got on a little better when switched to the gear stick.  But still manual biased.  Like the idea of someone guiding me through the benefits of maybe paddle PDK and I’m not a million miles from the brookland dealer.  My local dealer isn’t that great.

If there’s still some interest out there I’ve a question about GTS and PASM.  Some GTS show the switchable button for PASM and some don’t.  Does this mean that not all GTS’s can switch between both, as I scan now on my Boxster?

Thanks Boxster981S for the values.  I’m finding prices are significantly higher e.g. there are well spaced GTS Caymens out there asking nearly £52000 to £65000!!!!  Have they started to appreciate?

To answer a couple of questions:

Drago.d:  I live in the New Forest.and it will be my weekend occasional long drive car. (Thanks for the info on Brooklands.)

Jason 986S:  3.4L,  2007, manual, dark blue 29300miles, black interior.  FSH from main and indie.  I think it’s got every conceivable option, bar front parking sensors.  I will almost certainly sell privately unless the dealer I buy from makes an offer I can’t refuse.

Hi, 

I live in the New Forest. You're welcome to have a proper look over my 981S and I'll talk you through all the spec and the options. Mine is fully loaded with kit:

 

Sport Chrono

PASM

PSE

PTV diff

PDLS

Extended leather

PCM 3.1 with bluetooth, Bose etc....

etc......

 

It's an awesome car with all the toys on. I can take you out for a drive, show you what the paddles can do with Sport Chrono. 

 

Dan 

[djy]

8 hours ago, Spinneyman said:

Thanks for the quick response.  So are you saying that PASM is mainly for tracking?  It also diminishes the GTS appeal bar the look of a lower car.   I have to admit I don’t use my PASM hardly and only have it as a ‘must have’ on my next car, so it improves my re-sale value.  If so then it would make more cars available re my saearch and also maybe cheaper.

Basically, there are 3 options (only two available on the GTS)

Standard suspension - softer and higher ride height.

PASM - Constantly adjusting adaptive suspension. Switchable from Comfort to Firm. In Comfort, it is softer than the standard. In Firm, it's firmer than the standard. It is lower than the standard ride height by 10mm. 

X73 Sport Suspension - Non adjustable/non adaptive, firmer and lower still. 

 

I think that's right! 

[911-32]

$0.02 = paddleshifts suck and are not intuitive or sporty.  There, I said it  .  Seriously though, PDK/double clutch is a tool to get better lap times in racing and to get better fuel economy in artificial mpg tests.  They are less good at being automatics than automatics and are less good at being manuals than real manual gearboxes.  Porsche developed PDK for racing and never thought of putting it in road cars, likewise Audi in rally cars.  It took computer control and VW to put it in road cars and that was for mpg and the ability to charge more for it.

Having said that, I have a daily that is paddleshift.  It has honestly taken me a year to intuitively change gear on paddles without having to think about it and my wife's diesel auto with paddles and 8 gears is utterly beyond my intuition.  I find the old BMW push/pull paddles more intuitive than the left right PDK/Ferrari etc type paddles. I suspect I am in the minority though.

For the sportscars in my life, it has to be a manual in order to get that extra level of interaction and satisfaction.  I get it, its ultimately slightly slower and that extra interaction may have little or no value for others.  If you are like me and love the challenge of picking apart a racetrack or a twisty road, then the manual has value, if you get your buzz some other way then make a different choice.  I am weird - I get a buzz changing gears with 3 pedals just driving to the supermarket and never getting above 4000rpm.

[djy]

I have the ZF8 auto gearbox in my M135i. It's a great gearbox, but definitely better suited at leaving on Auto. It's not very easy to drive with the paddles, as you can't feel the gearchanges and there are too many gears to use as a manual. 

However, I find the PDK a joy to use in manual. I rarely drive it in Auto (only during the warm up in fact), once warmed, it's constantly in manual mode. I find it really easy to use. I have a pickup truck as my company vehicle and my other weekend car, a BMW Z4M, and I dislike going back to manual now. I find it a pain!