mike597 Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, thanatoid said: Today now in my back garden it's 5.3C, so having got to -4C when we had this chilly spell, it's 9.3C warmer.... Which is why most folk don't reckon winter tyres or perhaps the councils snowploughs etc.... even at 5.3 degrees winter tyres perform better than summer e.g. shorter stopping distances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Blackbatchew said: One of my frustrations is why we don’t see more all season tyres in the UK. I had a set of these on a 530d a few years ago and found them to be a great compromise. For your average Joe who can’t be bothered with the faff of swapping / storage they give you enough grip (just) to get around safely in snowy conditions. In Summer they perhaps don’t quite have the ultimate grip but not far off and in reality are summers are just as wet as winter and all seasons are great in wet conditions They are more available than they used to be. It used to be said that all season weren’t good enough in the winter and were too compromised in the summer but recently there have been new all seasons from Pirelli ( Scorpion Verde all season) and Michelin(. Cross climate) that seem very well regarded. Back in November we put 2 Pirelli Scorpion Verde all seasons on my wife’s FWD SUV and they have been brilliant, we have been out an about the last week and seem to have had no issues oeven on steep snowy roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatoid Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 8 hours ago, mike597 said: even at 5.3 degrees winter tyres perform better than summer e.g. shorter stopping distances True, switch over is supposed to be +7C isn't it? Hopefully that'll be about Tuesday :-) I'm kinda lucky, if the roads are bad for driving I don't 'need' to, I can walk for supplies if needed, but we don't really get that much bad weather in Berkshire :-) I mean 3 or 4 degrees warmer than Leeds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat haggis Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Putting 2 winters on a car is worse than not putting them on? The car has to have all rubber rubber the same . not just drive wheels mixing winter and summer rubber it's garanteeing traction failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatoid Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 My experience differs, put the driven rears to winter tyres and the fronts retained the summer tyres, they were relatively thin on a 3ltr Capri at 185's so I believe the profile was narrow enough to give good directional in heavy snow, the major lack of grip at the time was propulsion which without doubt the rear winters helped with. I would though agree, if able change all at the same time, I wasn't able to but worked out fine. One of the absolute best ever snow cars I've driven was a extremely narrow tyred Renault 4GTL belonging to a girlfriend, yes it leaned precariously around corners but you kinda got used to that :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I would have to disagree with you as well there FH, as it was when we bought the Seat the front tyres were on the borderline and as I was planning on getting a spare set of alloys with the intention of putting winter tyres on them, as it was the second set I bought for winters had good tyres on all-round (5-6mm) and they looked very nice as well, https://goo.gl/images/S3n7K2 from the FR's so I ended up just buying 2 winter tyres for the front (drive wheels) until the other 2 tyres wore down a bit as they are like new, I've always had a full set of winters on Anne's Mini and the Beetle, and I know how good that feels in the snow, to be honest I didn't fell any difference (there must be but I didn't feel it) driving in the snow this time in her Seat with only the 2 drive wheels with winters on to that of all 4, there is no way I would say that On 04/03/2018 at 12:29 AM, fat haggis said: Putting 2 winters on a car is worse than not putting them on I wouldn't of got off my drive if I had 4 summer tyres on as it was I went everywhere I wanted to during the snow period. I came off my drive and through that virgin snow In the above photo and up to Tesco's for our breed and milk, as it was there was none left everyone had walked up and bought the lot with the engine weight up front over the drive wheels the rear were just following behind in the tracks, I have winters all round on the Boxster but I wouldn't of been as happy driving that in them conditions. Guvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike597 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Quite common to see front wheel drive cars and vans in the French alps with only winters on the front. I've always thought that was nuts but perhaps 'dem French ain't so crazy after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat haggis Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I still disagree with you Sam in what you said On 04/03/2018 at 12:29 AM, fat haggis said: Putting 2 winters on a car is worse than not putting them on I didn't see a comparison of 4x summer tyres verses 2x Drive wheel (front engine) winters and 2x rear summer tyres, in that scenario I'm sure you would be better off with just 2 on the front axel. I do however agree with you in that 4 winters are better than 2. Guvs. give me a heads up if I need to leave the winters on my Boxster for the Boarders run closer to the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat haggis Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Guvs said: give me a heads up if I need to leave the winters on my Boxster for the Boarders run closer to the date. i'm thinking that also ,its all down to temps mate . and the wet stuff my black wheels are winter 18 and silver 19s summer .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 My black ones are my summer ones, they are in having a refurbishment and when done I have brand new rubbers to put on them so should have maximum grip for a while, but not sure if I'll get better grip with the part worn winters, like you said all down to that magic 7c temp. Guvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMA Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, Guvs said: I still disagree with you Sam in what you said I didn't see a comparison of 4x summer tyres verses 2x Drive wheel (front engine) winters and 2x rear summer tyres, in that scenario I'm sure you would be better off with just 2 on the front axel. I do however agree with you in that 4 winters are better than 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatoid Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Guvs said: Tesco's for our breed and milk, That a 'Special' then? This way sir we have a quiet spot behind the bakery :-) Do you get points? Clubcard points I mean..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatoid Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Company was goodgrip.com, no angle to prove or anything then :-) Call me a cynic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMA Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 To me its logical in a fwd car 2 summers on the rear will have considerable less rear end grip than having 2 winters on the rear when manoeuvring or braking when not in a straight line. I can't see how anyone could argue it would have the same level of grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowbos Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, thanatoid said: That a 'Special' then? This way sir we have a quiet spot behind the bakery :-) Do you get points? Clubcard points I mean..... Only in Wales eh? ? 52 minutes ago, fat haggis said: i'm thinking that also ,its all down to temps mate . and the wet stuff my black wheels are winter 18 and silver 19s summer .... I’m thinking I will leave my winters on for the Borders run - unless we hit a sudden heatwave at the start of April.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guvs Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Hi @CMA Again, I haven't seen a comparison of 4x summer wheels, verses 2x winter/ 2x summer tyres, the link you have quoted is 4x WINTER tyres verses 2x winter/2x summer, and no one has mentioned fwd !! now that's a different ball game. Guvs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkm Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Just to add to the mix.. worn winters hate snow! I found out when I reversed into slush/snow last week on my end of life sottozeros. They really do need much more than 3mm. Now I have the issue of swap back to good summers Vs replace - for a drive up to Orkney in 3 weeks. (This is a beemer not box.. the latter is now booked for a trip to Cannes in April!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I don’t think anyone argues that 2 winters are better than 4, However FH seemed to imply. 0 winters is better than 2, I can see the argument that 2 winters on the front can make the car tail happy, but simply you can get around when you couldn’t with 0 winters. When you put chains or socks on you don’t put 4 on do you?. Clearly it does take sensible driving and the appreciation that you won’t have much back end grip ( with 2 winters on front). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike597 Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Greenman said: I don’t think anyone argues that 2 winters are better than 4, However FH seemed to imply. 0 winters is better than 2, I can see the argument that 2 winters on the front can make the car tail happy, but simply you can get around when you couldn’t with 0 winters. When you put chains or socks on you don’t put 4 on do you?. Clearly it does take sensible driving and the appreciation that you won’t have much back end grip ( with 2 winters on front). Agree with this - the videos show people booting it around corners like they are on tarmac, of course they will slide. No-one drives like that in the snow unless they are a rally driver. What I've observed in the recent cold snap was the number of people whose driven wheels were simply spinning when trying to ascend even minor inclines. This causes huge traffic problems as people back up behind someone literally going nowhere. They then get stuck on the same incline as they can't get a run at it. Winters on the driven wheels would, I suspect, solve this part of the problem but not of course the going around a corner fast problem. Like I said, I've never done it and I wouldn't recommend it but I've seen it recently in the French alps - saw several local cars with winters only on the front. Doesn't sound wise but perhaps it is better than no winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat haggis Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Winters for me are more about temps and wet conditions. That do grip more a lot more and in cold wet conditions if you had only 2 winters on and 2 summers on,they winters would Handel there cold and give the grip needed the summer simply would not be as efficient as the winters and the risk of loosing the car traction and stopping power could be dangerous. Its Porsches we drive here folks not a corsa .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, fat haggis said: Winters for me are more about temps and wet conditions. That do grip more a lot more and in cold wet conditions if you had only 2 winters on and 2 summers on,they winters would Handel there cold and give the grip needed the summer simply would not be as efficient as the winters and the risk of loosing the car traction and stopping power could be dangerous. Its Porsches we drive here folks not a corsa .. I think if you are talking about on a car you are going to drive for pleasure and in any sort of spirited nature you are right. It’s the same (but even more so) argument that Porsche make on not mixing N0 and N1 rated tyres on the same car, clearly the handling will be significantly compromised. It’s unfortunate with our Porsche’s that you get the rears wearing much quicker than the fronts, it makes changing tyre types all the more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat haggis Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I also think it's illegal in country's where winter's are compulsory to have a mix of summer winter rubber.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzlt Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Well it was 9 deg today according to the car so summer tyres are in ! What I was more interested in without going to the car to get the manual is exactly what the PSM button turns off ? I think we have fairly extensively covered the tyres so am looking at new rims for the summer so that I can get winters for the old ones (for next year now fingers crossed) which need a second more extensive refurb.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 On 06/03/2018 at 10:36 AM, mike597 said: Like I said, I've never done it and I wouldn't recommend it but I've seen it recently in the French alps - saw several local cars with winters only on the front. Doesn't sound wise but perhaps it is better than no winters. Maybe the key point is whether they were FWD or RWD; as most cars these days are FWD (exception Merc, BMW?) that would seem sensible enough. A bit puzzling if RWD though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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