To IMS or not

[Mikerow]

I have a 2004 2.7 with 32000 miles. 

It has a good service history and in really good condition I’m only the 3rd owner. Looking around similar cars are for sale at £8000 pluss. I don’t ever intend selling but am wondering weather to do the IMS. The clutch and flywheel were changed at 20000 miles. Quotes coming in for the change are about £1500. 

Would you change the bearing or leave it as if it goes bang it would still have a good value in parts .

[fat haggis]

Clutch at 20k ? 

[Mikerow]

According to the history it was 

[Nellyans]

Just had all mine done on my 2002 2.7 altho at 80k owned for years now if you intend on keeping do it 20k on clutch that’s early to be honest.When I pulled mine out it was fine just slight play no oil leak and seal intact I replaced with ceramic also did my RMS aswell

[bally4563]

I'd be more concerned with a clutch change at 20k?

[K.I.T.T.]

If it's due a clutch, no brainer to do the RMS whilst in there and after weighing up the pros and cons, maybe the IMSB. I'd also say it doesn't make sense to pull everything apart to do the IMSB without doing the clutch and RMS - but the other way round is sensible.

Clutches are usually good for 45 - 60k at least depending on the driving style. Why was yours replaced so early? Mine was on it's original at 113k. Apart from it being (really) heavy, there were no issues.

[Topbox]

If you feel you can ride the financial hit  should the IMS fail there seems little point in doing it as the odds are it won't anyway. If you have to have a new clutch maybe then, as others have suggested, a lot depends on your own attitude toward risk, no right or wrong answer.

[Boxstercol]

Clutch at 20k would worry me!

[golfprorich]

7 hours ago, Boxstercol said:

Clutch at 20k would worry me!

My mum can do a clutch in half that 

[james_ly]

138k miles, original clutch and IMS

[That986]

The only thing that car needs is driving.......

[ianbadams]

I changed clutch last year and did the IMS bearing at the same time, given they were in and around that area. It's an expensive part so given overall cost for the job it made sense to do it at that time. I wouldn't have changed it otherwise. 

I've read articles that failure rates are fairly low. Think there is a bit of scaremongering out there from what I've read too, so I'm not sure I would worry about doing it until there's a job on your car getting done in around that area again.

[That986]

11 minutes ago, ianbadams said:

I changed clutch last year and did the IMS bearing at the same time, given they were in and around that area. It's an expensive part so given overall cost for the job it made sense to do it at that time. I wouldn't have changed it otherwise. 

I've read articles that failure rates are fairly low. Think there is a bit of scaremongering out there from what I've read too, so I'm not sure I would worry about doing it until there's a job on your car getting done in around that area again.

There's also reports of replacements failing and i know some are only guaranteed for so many miles.

[Mr96er]

10 hours ago, That986 said:

The only thing that car needs is driving.......

+1

the % of cars afflicted with IMS troubles are probably less than the risk of Prostate Cancer. Have you been for your health check up? I wouldn't dream of spending on the IMS until I'd had my bum checked. And I write this knowing the odds of you having your bum checked are sadly low. 

apologies if this offends anyone affected by the old Jack Dancer, but I write in hope that it merely raises awareness of the risk to us blokes. Get your bums checked.  

[Mike G]

58 minutes ago, Loz987 said:

+1

the % of cars afflicted with IMS troubles are probably less than the risk of Prostate Cancer. Have you been for your health check up? I wouldn't dream of spending on the IMS until I'd had my bum checked. And I write this knowing the odds of you having your bum checked are sadly low. 

apologies if this offends anyone affected by the old Jack Dancer, but I write in hope that it merely raises awareness of the risk to us blokes. Get your bums checked.  

That qualifies for post of the month award  :-)

[mikefocke]

As one who had prostate cancer ... by all means get it checked. I elected radiation treatment and 8 years and zero recurrence. I'm checked every 6 months.

It is all about your assets, income, non-car expenses and tolerance for risk. Your car has a 10% chance of IMS failure according to legal documents filed by Porsche in a US court. Assuming your car still has its original engine.

What will your finances be like and what will you feel like if you are in the 10%?

Which is worse, it fails and you didn't do it or you do it and are in an accident and total the car the next week?

Why are you repairing this weak point when there are 27 other known ways that engine may fail?

Have you access to other transport if it does fail?

Have you researched who would do the transplant and what their experience is in doing it? What bearing or kit would you/they use?

 

 

 

 

[Topbox]

apologies if this offends anyone affected by the old Jack Dancer, but I write in 

It offends the cockney in me. 

[edc]

On 06/03/2018 at 10:47 AM, That986 said:

There's also reports of replacements failing and i know some are only guaranteed for so many miles.

That's true but comparing like for like the original bearing effectively has no guarantee. 

I would only do it if there was a need for a clutch change. 

If I was to do it again in a couple of years time I would look at the comments and data from Hartech who I think use a "regular" bearing but remove the outer seal. By then there would be a couple more years of sample experience. 

[JohnnyUK]

Spare a thought for the tiptronic owners here.... Not even an excuse to get it done with a clutch!  At 129000 I think it's  not going to keep me awake now. Change the oil every 5000 and check the filter.. Having bloods done next week(psa levels) and got a couple of pots to poop in too (bowel c) !!! Oh the joys of old age!

[Mr96er]

10 hours ago, Topbox said:

apologies if this offends anyone affected by the old Jack Dancer, but I write in 

It offends the cockney in me. 

if he's offended, ask him graciously to pull out and leave. 

[mikefocke]

You have a 2004.  Records show the clutch at 20k. Odd but if the driver didn't know how to drive a stick, not a bad sign at all. Because at least it shows some attention to maintenance. Only bad about it is there is probably more time until YOU have to replace the clutch and doing so offers the ideal time to lower the cost of the IMS replacement because the transmission is already off. Do it now and you have to pay the R&R cost (remove and replace) involved with separating the engine and the transmission.

Do you know for certain that the engine hasn't been replaced? If you do, then you have the 10% bearing. You checked the engine serial number?

No one will guarantee any IMS bearing replacement because they don't control the condition of the engine before the procedure or the quality of the procedure.

Pull the oil filter, inspect. Pull the oil pan, inspect. Use a magnet on any metal found.

Nothing found, good but not determinant because the seller could have changed the oil just before the sale because he found something prior.

Iron found and now you have a serious choice. Once metal is in the engine you can't just change the bearing because the grit is already in the engine hidden in narrow passages and an oil change isn't enough to assure that the new bearing (and others) aren't at danger. At this point you have choices, all expensive. Multiple flushes and solvents before bearing change. Engine replacement. Engine rebuild. Sell as a roller. Sell.

 

 

 

 

[RickLS7]

Revolution (one of the site sponsors] were doing a special offer when my clutch needed replacement. Cost £1050 including VAT from memory for the clutch, ceramic IMS bearing and RMS seal so worth keeping an eye out on their page for any group buys.

My bearing was in pretty good condition looking at it under a microscope, only a tiny amount of pitting.

[gdibben]

For what it's worth - I decided to buy a magnetic sump plug, drive the car as much as possible and change the oil and filter every 6 month regardless of mileage. Then check the sump plug, oil and filter for any metal, bits of seal etc. Seems dirty oil stagnating around the seal doesn't do the IMS any good. So far, so good...

[RickLS7]

I change my oil regularly. The oil that slowly replaces the grease in the bearing is black and stagnant because of the seal, only way to get clean oil to the bearing is to pop the seals off. 

[Terryg]

On 06/03/2018 at 8:53 PM, Loz987 said:

+1

the % of cars afflicted with IMS troubles are probably less than the risk of Prostate Cancer. Have you been for your health check up? I wouldn't dream of spending on the IMS until I'd had my bum checked. And I write this knowing the odds of you having your bum checked are sadly low. 

apologies if this offends anyone affected by the old Jack Dancer, but I write in hope that it merely raises awareness of the risk to us blokes. Get your bums checked.  

Good call, I immediately went to a mirror and I can report that thankfully mine is still there, got some funny looks in M&S though, maybe I should have gone in the changing rooms?