Front Strut Brace Install

[½cwt]

3 minutes ago, phazed said:

I would still like to hear some definitive proof that these add ons do something.

I track a Skoda vRS. Every handling upgrade has made a difference. Upgraded ARB's, coilovers, stiffer springs, quick rack, bushing, alloy wishbones etc, etc. So I well understand upgrades.

When I did Cadwell last year, (in the Boxster) PASM on, flat out down the back straight, ease  off just before Coppice, (left hander) and take it at about 90-95mph. Everything feels planted without the slightest wobble from the car. Oh, I track with a set of Toyo R888's fitted. Point is as Bally suggested, is it a placebo effect?

First and tenth posts on Page one of the thread indicate some form of improvement.  Plus Porsche wouldn't have gone to the expense and trouble of fitting them on the 997 if they made no difference.

[kevin450]

Also just about to do this, struts received from eBay just done a quick rub down and spray painted (not required but I have the spray paint) other parts as stated in first thread from Porsche chester ( excuse to have a look around )with pcgb discount total cost of all the parts from eBay and opc £36.01 hopefully fit in the next few days seeing the weather forecast can’t use that excuse not to do 

[phazed]

I'm inclined to believe Porsche over someone who, "can feel the difference", ( no offence but we get that a lot on the TVR forum. "The difference was, Night and Day" springs to mind ).

 

I will check mine to see if it has the threaded fixings. I may well do it because, well it's cheap and I can!

[bally4563]

1 hour ago, phazed said:

I'm inclined to believe Porsche over someone who, "can feel the difference", ( no offence but we get that a lot on the TVR forum. "The difference was, Night and Day" springs to mind ).

 

I will check mine to see if it has the threaded fixings. I may well do it because, well it's cheap and I can!

I don’t recall that the RS 60 had  those, but Bally brace and front turret to turret, can only help in increasing the rigidity?

[Ninesomething]

If I can feel it on a 60mph road corner I imagine on track at much higher speeds it would be quite apparent. I hummed and haahed about it for a while because I didn't think it was necessary. Whether it actually does something or whether you can just feel what is already happening who knows but there just is a better feeling from the front.

Was out for a bit of a ride today and was still feeling it.....

[BBB]

2 hours ago, phazed said:

Point is as Bally suggested, is it a placebo effect?

For £16.50, I’ll take the placebo effect. 

[bally4563]

42 minutes ago, BBB said:

For £16.50, I’ll take the placebo effect. 

£16.50?

[Menoporsche]

That's his opening offer.

[bally4563]

4 minutes ago, Menoporsche said:

That's his opening offer.

Good luck with that ! 😂

[½cwt]

34 minutes ago, bally4563 said:

£16.50?

For the front end yes, but not for the high quality engineering required for a Bally Brace for the rear end eh Mick?  Needs to swap the digits in the pounds or thereabouts to get one of your braces IIRC.

[bally4563]

2 minutes ago, ½cwt said:

For the front end yes, but not for the high quality engineering required for a Bally Brace for the rear end eh Mick?  Needs to swap the digits in the pounds or thereabouts to get one of your braces IIRC.

So true my friend, would not even consider kicking up and setting up the milling machine at that !!!

[bally4563]

27 minutes ago, bally4563 said:

So true my friend, would not even consider kicking up and setting up the milling machine at that !!!

Best of it is, if it had professional stickers on it ,and flash packaging, could sell for twice as much!!!

[BBB]

1 hour ago, bally4563 said:

£16.50?

Sorry, meant the cost of the front brace, in the link @JonSta posted.

[Ninesomething]

14 hours ago, phazed said:

I'm inclined to believe Porsche over someone who, "can feel the difference", ( no offence but we get that a lot on the TVR forum. "The difference was, Night and Day" springs to mind ).

 

I will check mine to see if it has the threaded fixings. I may well do it because, well it's cheap and I can!

Tempting as it is to believe that the mighty Porsche made the 987 perfect they didn't. There are a few things that can still be done. The 981 less so - don't hear of many people faffing about with those.

I remember seeing a programme about Porsche on the telly sometime in the early 2000s and the engineer being interviewed said something like 'we know we haven't made the perfect sports car yet. This is as good as we can make it now. The perfect car will be made but it will be the next generation of engineers that do that'.

[phazed]

Good at the time.

[Menoporsche]

Also don't forget the brutal marketing department keeping the 911 as the peak of the brand.

[kevin450]

Fitted the strut braces this morning all went well followed the first thread write up, the only extra to add is my scuttle had a antenna connection at the n/s assume gps so don’t go yanking at the scuttle.

Been for a short drive on a known twisting road for me, and I can say it feels more positive in the front, it  just feels nice definitely a positive mod, no noted difference going over speed humps etc , so at little cost, of £36.01 and 45 mins work in the sunshine this morning it’s a positive not a negative for me 

 

[kevin450]

Have been for a longer drive around my  local roads with all the required up downs twist and turns and pot holds etc you get in north Wales the car just feels different in a positive way  definitely not a negative,  I driven this route many times and It felt more positive and poor roads didn’t feel any poorer 

it may be a placebo effect but I’ll take it, I’m in no way a qualified F1 driver or track person to give a definitive view of this mod but in my opinion definitely not a negative mod for the price 

[phazed]

I’ve done quite a bit of reading about this today, a lot from American sites.

Apparently the 987 Boxster has a much stiffer bulkhead between the turrets, double welded steel. The body was designed much stiffer as a rag top. Also a lot of people have said that the size, thickness of the tubing and how it is bolted wouldn’t make any difference.

Dont shoot the messenger….

I will be using my Boxster on track again on the 11th of April at Castle Combe. Hopefully the weather is good and I will pay particular attention to the on limit handling to see if I can feel anything at all that doesn’t seem right. From my previous track days, I always come back with a huge smile on my face as the car is just so good as standard, (tyres aside).

[½cwt]

@phazed if it is that stiff for an open car, how come the closed 997s have it fitted?  But yes it is significantly stiffer than the 986/996 front end but the facility for it is still there.  The triangulation of the strut turrets would work, the braces are essentially in compression or tension so tube thickness doesn't need to be that great as opposed to if a bending force was applied and whilst a straight bar is ultimately best, this simple design use on the 986/996 and carried over to the 997 avoids clashing with ancillaries like the battery, servo/master cylinders and wiper system is an effective and low cost solution.

As it is simple to fit, it would be interesting to do a track day with it disconnected in the morning, then fit it over lunch and find out the difference as a genuine test.  Likewise a Bally brace too.  They are both simple fits.

[Ninesomething]

 I'm still enjoying the improved handling of my car. No-one has to do it.....

[bally4563]

Get the Bally Brace and really enhance !!

[½cwt]

2 hours ago, bally4563 said:

Get the Bally Brace and really enhance !!

Only takes about 15 minutes to fit with a 15mm socket and a hammer!

[ATM]

Standard 986 here with covers off showing bars in place -assuming from factory unless someone else retro fitted before I got the car 

 

[phazed]

I saw an interesting video on YouTube last night by a mechanical engineer. He made up a brace to go in between the turrets with a sensor in the centre of it so that he could measure movement and record it digitally on his computer.

He did various tests on the car, a Porsche 993 by the look of things, (Arguably more flexible than a Boxster) and his conclusion was that the few thousands of an inch that was measured in flexing didn’t warrant a strut brace.

Of course, if you were seriously racing a car you would take every step to stiffen the chassis/body anyway you could for total rigidity and I’m sure that a price in between the turrets would be just one of many modifications that would be carried out.

My point is, no one is going to notice the front strut brace modification. The turrets are not flapping about. The whole car is very strong and stiff for safety reasons as well as for handling.

For those who have never done a track day or any racing, imagine braking hard for a fast corner, down to about 70 mph, turning in and accelerating out of the bend, letting the car drift through, tyres creeping under lateral strain from the apex to the outside of the corner. All the time, the weight of the car on the outer wheels, suspension in compression, you working the steering wheel to maintain the best line and grip. Your body is counteracting the G force and you are pushing against the transmission tunnel or door with your knee as you push back in the seat trying to maintain your position. Then with the whole car loaded mid corner imagine 1–2 mm of lateral movement inbetween the two front suspension turrets, do you think that you would notice this, of course not, not on a standard road car.

His final words were that the majority of the strut braces were just ornaments.

Having said all that, I do have one on the front of my track day Skoda Octavia vRS. It is about a 50 mm diameter tube with 10mm thick fixing flanges at each end. Does it do anything, I don’t know but someone gave it to me and the car is used solely for flat out Track Days. Who knows. What I do know is it is a very purposeful piece of kit and given the circumstances of the use of the car, may do a little something. Would I notice it, absolutely not. I can be seen on track with the car pitching and sliding on the edge. I don’t think I would notice if the wheel bolts were loose when the car feels like it is at the point of parting company with the tarmac!