McDonald Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) My newly acquired hard top was stored for a while by the previous owner. The seals seem like a weak point. I know about Gummy Flege but thought replacement might be an option. I called in to Porsche Portsmouth yesterday to enquire about replacement seals. "No problem, sir." The man from the part dept. looked up the part numbers & prices:- front edge : 987 563 125 01 Price £800+ side : 987 563 127 00 £500+ side : 987 563 128 00 £500+ Rear window seal only supplied with Glass : £500+ Quite shocking prices for rubber seals. Is there another more sensibly priced supplier? Edited January 20, 2023 by McDonald typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) I'll go out on a limb and say "no" given the hard top is already a niche part. For new parts like this, regardless of supplier, they will originate from Porsche and introducing another supplier in the mix will just introduce a cost uplift (a point which seems lost on some folks who race straight to Ebay or some other supplier for some OE parts when going to an OPC is sometimes cheaper). Obviously it won't make a huge dent but if you did go down the route of new seals obviously ask for OPC discount. It doesn't feel worth the investment to me at those numbers but it's not my car. The other option is see if someone has 2nd hand ones but a) they will be rarer than hens teeth , because everyone will be trying to make do with the existing ones on their hard top at that money to replace and b) you're back to old seals which might be no better. I'd suggest try the Gummi Pflege, you've nothing to lose and I hope that works out for you. Edited January 20, 2023 by iborguk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, iborguk said: I'd suggest try the Gummi Pflege, you've nothing to lose I've already applied the Gummy stuff but I'm not sure it's adequate to the task. Since I'm intending to get the hard top resprayed in the summer, I may ask the bodyshop to strip the seals and let me give them an intensive Gummy treatment, then have them refitted. I can't justify £2K+ for new seals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) Maybe post some pics of the issue (leak?) to see if it gets the forums creative juices going on a solution ? Or find a decent indy bodyshop/classic car restorer (sounds like you may already have someone in mind) and see if they can offer any advice re the seals, they'll be the kind of places who may apply lateral thinking on how to deal with issues without jumping straight to spend £2k. Edited January 20, 2023 by iborguk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codfanglers Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 I don't know what these seals look like but would have thought taking off the old ones then trying to refit would risk making them a whole lot worse. Have you looked if anything from suppliers like Aldridge or Woolies trimmers could do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninesomething Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Are you bothered because they look bad or because they are seriously tatered and will obviously leak? A ghetto fix would be a strip of self adhesive rubber window seal applied in a place where it can't be seen. I did this on my Subaru where the dogs had wrecked the hatch seal with their claws and a new part was £250. Seemed to work OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 @McDonald try getting hold of some Krytox, VAG part number G052172A1 which is the VAG seal lubricant for VW and Audi convertibles and is widely available on eBay. It revived the hardened seals on two EOS folding roofs that we've had, made them water tight and squeak free. It is more than a surface lubricant that penetrates the rubber (if it is the right sort of rubber, otherwise it just sits on the surface) which Gummi Pflege doesn't. It goes a long way , I apply and work in with a lint free cloth. As a test you will only need a small bottle. My 30ml bottle is still quarter full after treating the EOS at least a couple of times and out latest Golf once. Leave it for a while before compressing the seals aging. Volkswagen VW VAG Group Krytox Roof Rubber Care Oil Lubricant G052172A1 5 - 30ml | eBay Those Porsche prices are huge. Even if it included fitting! The 987 563 127 00 number comes up at a mere £235 + VAT on D911 and from the parts diagram seems to be the seal around the base at the rear so at under £300 delivered could be worth a punt. The main front top and widow top seals are on piece which is 987 563 125 01, the only other seals are int eh two roof channels (986 563 361 00 & 986 563 361 00 at about £46 each on D911) and in the rear window kit. For more info download the 987 parts cat from : Porsche Classic Genuine Parts Catalogue - Porsche Great Britain and look at section 811-015. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, ½cwt said: Those Porsche prices are huge. Even if it included fitting! Eye-watering prices & fitting not included. Thanks for those helpful tips, I'll copy them and apply the lube in the Spring when I remove the hard-top again. For economy I'd prefer to redeem the original seals but I have to be realistic, they're old rubber. The D911 prices are radically different. I had a feeling that someone else could compete on price for bendy rubber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 On a different board Gummi Pflege is identified as just a silicone lubricant suspended in a carrier oil, so other products eg from plumbing supplies would do as well for a third of the price. I'm aware a pot is not exactly expensive considering how long it lasts. What are the seals, long strips of rubber with a certain cross section? Wonder if they could be substituted by a commonly available alternative. Would need the right cross section dimensions and the right material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Menoporsche said: On a different board Gummi Pflege is identified as just a silicone lubricant suspended in a carrier oil, so other products eg from plumbing supplies would do as well for a third of the price. I'm aware a pot is not exactly expensive considering how long it lasts. What are the seals, long strips of rubber with a certain cross section? Wonder if they could be substituted by a commonly available alternative. Would need the right cross section dimensions and the right material. I'm sure you could use silicone spray onto a cloth and rub it on. The Wurth version comes with a handy applicator built in to the cap. The two main issues would be not just the profile of the bit that makes contact with the top of the screen and glass, but also the channel shape on the back where it fits into the hard top, the second is where the section changes at the top of the A pillar and then becomes the top window seal. This is one piece in the Porsche part (with some sort of bonding, welding, chemical joint), and then you are into how to joint them accurately and be leak and wind noise free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 McDonald has given prices for the 987. Can you see on the parts list for the 986 are the prices comparable? Out of curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Thanks for posting about the cost of the seals @McDonaldthat stops me even considering that option! I’ve been having some leaks on my hardtop this year, when I’ve never had problems before. The seals seem to be in good condition on visual inspection, so I don’t think they are “faulty”. I was late putting the hardtop on this year, lulled by the milder conditions in November and I wonder if a) the longer storage time off the car and b) putting the top on when the seals were also really cold means that they weren’t as flexible and have had a harder time adopting to the correct shape to work well. I took the top back off, used gummipflege and silicone grease at the edges and refitted, and most of the problems went away, but its still not as leak free as last year. Next steps, on a warmer day, to adjust the fit (as per the instructions I sent you). In the meantime I have put the half cover back on and I’ll retreat the seals before storage over summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Menoporsche said: McDonald has given prices for the 987. Can you see on the parts list for the 986 are the prices comparable? Out of curiosity. The main seal across the top of the windscreen and down the window tops is 986 563 025 01 (£838 + VAT on D911), the lower rear seal is 986 563 027 01 (£159 +VAT on D911). The profile cross sections shown in the parts illustration in 811-015 is the same for 986 and 987, but I won't for a second suggest any interchangeability, more likely a case of Porsche sticking with a profile they know works. Edited January 21, 2023 by ½cwt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, JonSta said: Are you bothered because they look bad or because they are seriously tatered and will obviously leak? A ghetto fix would be a strip of self adhesive rubber window seal applied in a place where it can't be seen. I did this on my Subaru where the dogs had wrecked the hatch seal with their claws and a new part was £250. Seemed to work OK. I suspect I still have a small leak but have kept it out of the rain, so can't be sure. The ghetto fix might be my refuge if I find it's leaking, at least until I can get it sorted in March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, McDonald said: I suspect I still have a small leak but have kept it out of the rain, so can't be sure. The ghetto fix might be my refuge if I find it's leaking, at least until I can get it sorted in March. I'd suggest first step is reproduce the leak to establish what the problem could be. Can you reproduce it with a hose when the hardtop is on the car ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, iborguk said: I'd suggest first step is reproduce the leak to establish what the problem could be. Can you reproduce it with a hose when the hardtop is on the car ? I washed the car yesterday & there was a slight dribble inside the driver's side front corner. Not much but if left parked outside in driving rain, I wouldn't be confident. I also put the trombone cleaner into the drain on that outside corner, just to make sure they were clear. The driver's side seal doesn't sit tidily but that's just a cosmetic issue. It seems watertight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, BBB said: I was late putting the hardtop on this year When I bought my hardtop, there was snow on the ground. This may be a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) @McDonald I'd maybe double check the OPC thinking re the hardtop side seal part numbers and pricing, see part (13) at https://www.lllparts.co.uk/product/98756312501/porsche-roof-frame-seal-98756312501 Edited January 21, 2023 by iborguk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, McDonald said: I washed the car yesterday & there was a slight dribble inside the driver's side front corner. Not much but if left parked outside in driving rain, I wouldn't be confident. Try a hose on it and watch so you can gauge how bad it is ? Again may help you trace the root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, iborguk said: @McDonald I'd maybe double check the OPC thinking re the hardtop side seal part numbers and pricing, see part (13) at https://www.lllparts.co.uk/product/98756312501/porsche-roof-frame-seal-98756312501 Part No 3 is the front seal & your link seems to make it even more expensive than the main dealer quote. Scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 hours ago, iborguk said: @McDonald I'd maybe double check the OPC thinking re the hardtop side seal part numbers and pricing, see part (13) at https://www.lllparts.co.uk/product/98756312501/porsche-roof-frame-seal-98756312501 Part 3 (the main front and side window seal), not 13? 13 is 986 563 361 00 or 986 563 362 00 which are the roof channel seals I quoted above and are bout £46 from D911 or £44.34 on the link to LLLparts that you gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iborguk Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ½cwt said: Part 3 (the main front and side window seal), not 13? 13 is 986 563 361 00 or 986 563 362 00 which are the roof channel seals I quoted above and are bout £46 from D911 or £44.34 on the link to LLLparts that you gave. Correct, so where did these come from re the OPC conversation...? "side : 987 563 127 00 £500+ side : 987 563 128 00 £500+" Edited January 21, 2023 by iborguk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
½cwt Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Just now, iborguk said: Correct, so where did these come from re the OPC conversation... "side : 987 563 127 00 £500+ side : 987 563 128 00 £500+" 127 00 is the rear lower seal. 128 00 doesn't exist... OP was maybe in shock by this stage? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edc Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Some 986 owners have plumped up the seals with cord, plastic straws and I guess you could even use the green washing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonald Posted January 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, iborguk said: Correct, so where did these come from re the OPC conversation... "side : 987 563 127 00 £500+ side : 987 563 128 00 £500+" I will go back & ask the question again in March when I take off the hard-top or maybe phone & discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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