981 what to buy?

[spook]

1 hour ago, ATM said:

 

If you search for stuff on the internet about Pirelli tyres you will find evidence of lots of internet talk about these tyres and lots of other people having problems with them.  Some even got Pirelli to replace them free of charge.  I think there was some talk about the manufacturing process or chemicals involved being problematic and this is why Pirelli said some tyres were going off far too quickly due to age.

So a brand new car on brand new tyres is very different to your car which could have tyres 2, 3, 4, 5 or more years old.  You can go outside and look at the date stamps on your tyres. 

I guessed immediately when I read all of this you were on Pirelli tyres.

Several people have also commented on Pirelli specifically.  

If you are going to ask for advice on this forum then please listen to the advice people give.

People take the time to reply. 

Ask yourself why people would try to mislead you?

Maybe they know something which is true and are trying to help.

"You can lead a man to wisdom, but you cannot make him think"

[356C]

Come on chaps, we can disagree without falling out. 
 

It really doesn’t matter what I think. 

[spook]

24 minutes ago, 356C said:

Come on chaps, we can disagree without falling out. 
 

It really doesn’t matter what I think. 

Not falling out, just think you should consider following the advice you have been given from people who have experience in these matters and actually try your car on Michelins before summarily dismissing them as making no difference.

[McDonald]

3 minutes ago, spook said:

Not falling out, just think you should consider following the advice you have been given from people who have experience in these matters and actually try your car on Michelins before summarily dismissing them as making no difference.

I love the Michelin on my car, but each to his own. I wouldn't be spending a grand on new tyres if I had one yr old Tyres of another reputable brand.

[356C]

I have over fifty years experience, I was even a tyre tester in the seventies for a time. 
 

I had Michelins on my 987 and I said they have more grip than Pirellis and don’t last as long. I felt the Pirellis handled the same as the Michelins, which seems reasonable because the Michelins and the Pirellis that the Porsche dealerships fit are designed for the cars. 

[daz05]

My experience of Pirellis (n0) is that they are pretty good in the dry, yes a little bit unpredictable in the wet when cold but the drama associated with them is overdone on the internet. 

[spook]

5 minutes ago, 356C said:

I had Michelins on my 987 and I said they have more grip than Pirellis and don’t last as long. I felt the Pirellis handled the same as the Michelins, which seems reasonable because the Michelins and the Pirellis that the Porsche dealerships fit are designed for the cars. 

Much as I hate to state the bleedin' obvious, the 987 is a previous generation model and therefore a completely different animal to a 981. Surely as a former tyre tester you should know not to jump to conclusions without actually carrying out a tyre test on the car in question?

[Carmand]

Slightly surprised at the tone this thread has taken.  Yet to experience the usual forum behaviour on here which is why I frequent it more than others and recommend it whenever I get the chance.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and despite what some seem to think not everything in life is black and white.  Advice or experience is always welcome but not if it comes in the form of a directive.

Here’s hoping the “BoXa.net” spirit returns going forward.

[spook]

28 minutes ago, Carmand said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and despite what some seem to think not everything in life is black and white.  Advice or experience is always welcome but not if it comes in the form of a directive.

What "directive"? I haven't seen any. As far as I'm aware nobody has directed our friend to change his tyres, there is merely an invitation to him to consider the wise advice of the many who have and have benefitted from it, in the hope that he too might benefit from it. Isn't this how a forum like this is supposed to work?

[steve7]

My 981 S was a fantastic handling car in the wet and dry and was on Perellis and I now have a GT4 on cup 2's which also great the main difference being they do need some heat in them and the limits as you would expect are higher. Both cars telegraph front and rear grip very well and in general it's the most neutral car I have ever owned and would expect from the mid engine layout and both can be steered on the throttle.

You describe a completely different experience to myself so wonder if you could drive another car and benchmark yours against another 981? I'm based in St Albans however if up in the Cotswolds in the future (possibly will be later this year) you are welcome to have ago in mine.

Edited July 20, 2023 by steve7

[356C]

A friend had a GT4 a few years ago and thought it the best Porsche you could buy at the time. He’s had a string of 911s always new and has one now. He’s a successful vintage hill climber with a Fraser Nash Supersports and Pic Pic with a 9 litre WW1 aero engine.

I believe the GT4 has the same set up as the 718, so probably is as good as it gets and slightly better than mine. I don’t think my opinion is different from yours, but maybe I’ve made it sound that way.

if you’re in the Cotswolds do give me a call and stop by for a coffee and a chat, though I’m not sure I’d risk driving your car leave alone drive it on the limit. I might put it through a hedge. 😉😂 it’s a very kind offer though. 

[JurassicBGTS]

Just returned from my Porsche Experience Centre trip using a 718 BGTS 4.0 on Michelins. An unbelievable few hours.

Every car at the PEC is on Michelins according to my instructor🤔

Edited July 21, 2023 by JurassicBGTS

[GTSMarky]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:56 AM, JurassicBGTS said:

Just returned from my Porsche Experience Centre trip using a 718 BGTS 4.0 on Michelins. An unbelievable few hours.

Every car at the PEC is on Michelins according to my instructor🤔

I really do think the 4.0 Boxster or Cayman is the sweet spot & would be great at the Porsche centre.  I was in a 2.5 GTS and that was mint.

 

[356C]

On the road the turbo cars are appreciably faster because they have power everywhere, rather than high up the rev range. 
 

More power is readily available with re-mapping too. 
 

I went back from a 718 2L to a 981S and had to adapt to lack of power. 
 

Otherwise I prefer the six because it is quieter. 
 

Playing devil’s advocate here. 😉

[daz05]

The 2l 718 isn't very fast, I think you are trolling again 🤣

[356C]

36 minutes ago, daz05 said:

The 2l 718 isn't very fast, I think you are trolling again 🤣

Look at the figures Daz. 
 

The 2L has nearly 300 lbs/ft of torque at 1950rpm, while my 3.4L 981S has to be doing 4,500rpm to achieve the same figure 

I think the Porsche figures show the 2L 718 as faster accelerating than the 981S as well, but it’s normal driving where the 718 is much faster because the extra torque from much lower revs. 
 

Torque is power and it’s important to quote it and the revs from at which it’s produced. It means the 718 2L has a power band from 1950-7,500 and my 3.4 from 4,500-7,500. 
 

This explains why the 2 L is faster especially for overtaking etc c
 

I think 2.5 is faster accelerating than the 4 litre 718 too. 
 

I'm really not trolling, just pointing out the facts. 

[daz05]

I've driven several, the figures are not real life, the only time it's quicker is a quick jab of the throttle in a high gear.

We all have pdk boxes that can have us exactly where we need to be in the rev range, a nice high revving 3.4 keeps on going while the little 4 pot is all out of ideas.

You need a 2.5 to be any quicker than the 3.4 S and that's a fact.

[356C]

28 minutes ago, daz05 said:

I've driven several, the figures are not real life, the only time it's quicker is a quick jab of the throttle in a high gear.

We all have pdk boxes that can have us exactly where we need to be in the rev range, a nice high revving 3.4 keeps on going while the little 4 pot is all out of ideas.

You need a 2.5 to be any quicker than the 3.4 S and that's a fact.

Daz

i kept my 2L 718 for 12,500 miles driving across Spain and much more. It was extremely fast and the 981 felt underpowered when I got it.
 

The 718 revved just as high as the 981, but the power curve is flat rather than rising with revs. 
 

I noticed when overtaking a few cars at a time when kick down wasn’t enough. I had to manually shift and absolutely scream the engine and it still felt slow. 
 

However I have the variable suspension on the 981S, which I run on soft, I have the multi adjustable seats, the zoned climate control, so the car is exceptionally comfortable and I tend to drive it more slowly, which is wiser and I prefer it. 
 

Truth is I’ve ridden bikes all my life and right across this country France and Spain. They’re far faster than cars and I’m lucky that I could do it when there wasn’t as much traffic and there was less chance of getting caught. 
 

I’ve had to force myself to slow down and the 981S is perfect for that. 
 

I still fancy a fully specc’d 2.5L 718S though. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by 356C
More detail

[daz05]

🤣 I know you are on the wind up.

But.... for the benefit of others here is a 718s Vs 981s, don't see the car with the power and torque advantage leaving the 3.4 for dead on the straights do you, let alone the 2.0l

 

I prefer the 2.0l to the 2.5l it really suits the manual box actually, the gearing feels shorter than the manual 981.

[ATM]

12 hours ago, daz05 said:

🤣 I know you are on the wind up.

But.... for the benefit of others here is a 718s Vs 981s, don't see the car with the power and torque advantage leaving the 3.4 for dead on the straights do you, let alone the 2.0l

 

I prefer the 2.0l to the 2.5l it really suits the manual box actually, the gearing feels shorter than the manual 981.

 

I think the 981 in front is turning in later and getting a better exit speed from the corners.  So maybe that is why the 718 cant quite catch him.

[hopz121]

12 hours ago, daz05 said:

🤣 I know you are on the wind up.

But.... for the benefit of others here is a 718s Vs 981s, don't see the car with the power and torque advantage leaving the 3.4 for dead on the straights do you, let alone the 2.0l

 

I prefer the 2.0l to the 2.5l it really suits the manual box actually, the gearing feels shorter than the manual 981.

 

 

 

 

981 is highly modified and being driven better this video doesn't really show much!

Stock for Stock a 718 would be faster for sure, I am still a frim believer that a 718 GTS 2.5 would be quicker in most situations than a GT4 as well! 

The 718 Turbos really do shift also the steering is better too

[cozzykim]

For me (YMMV) the flat six is the essence of what I enjoy from my car.

I've had Cosworths, T5s (that was a nice sounding engine), straight six Mercs, Scoobys (a lovely sound in itself), TVRs, etc.

I don't want a car that looks like a Porsche and sounds like a scooby, (but not as nice IMHO).

Personally, push come to shove and no other option, I'd pick an old flat six 986 over a 718 every time.

The argument about torque and acceleration is spurious IMHO, if you prefer those over presence, go and buy a Model 3, you'll win the traffic lights burnout every time.

Actually, the fastest (feeling) thing away from the lights I've ever owned was...a straight six 4.0l Jeep Cherokee.

I had that at the same time as my chipped 4WD Cossie and guess what, the Cherokee would cover the first 200yds the quickest, before the Cossie's turbo spooled up.

My brother has an Elise 250 Cup. You'd think that would waste a Boxster on real roads. Not so, he himself said that the Boxster chassis and PDK would mean that I'd beat him in the twisties, as he'd have to be focused on his gear changes.

It's all a YMMV argument.

Edited July 26, 2023 by cozzykim
typo

[moonshine]

I had to Google YMMV! 😱 😂 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ymmv#

[hopz121]

20 minutes ago, moonshine said:

I had to Google YMMV! 😱 😂 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ymmv#

Same haha 

[iborguk]

We like what we like.

I liked my two flat sixes.

I like my turbo four.