Approved Used 718 Cayman - A minor warranty horror story

[thyde91]

I've actually never posted in a single forum in my life, but I've recently had an experience which I felt needed to be shared - edven if nothing further comes from it, if it raises a bit of awareness, then that'll be good enough.

I'm just an average bloke, who worked hard and saved, and was extremely proud to walk into Porsche Portsmouth (UK) and buy a Porsche Approved-Used 718 Cayman (Base Spec, 2.0l 4-cyl, manual) in August 2022. I'd done my research, bought a lovely and clean 2019 model, with just over 15,000 miles on the clock for about £45,000.

I thought going down the Approved Used route would mean I would certainly have a few years of trouble free motoring. Porsche tout an extensive multi-point inspection as part of their approved used scheme, which thereafter is still covered by a comprehensive 2 year warranty and assistance programme, and generally only appl;ies to cars which have alwasy had a full Porsche main dealer service history from new.

After around 10 months of ownership, a warning light came up on the dash, saying 'Engine Control Fault. Contact Dealer. Driving Permitted'. I rang my local dealership, who advised the best course of action was to call Porsche Assist, who would come out and diagnose it; if needed, they'd organise transport to a dealership too.
At this point, I wasn't at all worried, as I knew I had my approved-used warranty.

The Porsche Assist technician advised it was something to do with the DPF/GPF. At this point, I hasten to add, I'd only covered 1500 miles since purchasing the car. All my journeys were around 50-75 miles each time, and usually driving a fairly 'spirited'.

It was taken to Porsche Cambridge, who advised the GPF was full of ash, and the complete catalytic converter had to be replaced. I was then told, this was a 'fair wear and tear item', and I had to foot the bill.

A reminder - I purchased the car for £45,000, and had covered 1500 miles. I was now being asked to pay a further £6,538 for a new catalytic converter and fitting.

Needless to say, I was so upset, and completely furious. I knew that I had absolutely not filled up a GPF in 1500 miles of use; and bearing in mind that, I wanted to know why the dealership's 100+ point inspection hadn't flagged it as being nearly full of ash and rectified it prior to me purchasing the car.

I went back to the original dealership and raised my concerns, who agreed this wasn't fair. I was told to raise a case with Porsche UK Customer Interaction Centre (PCIC), to get it escalated.

I did just that, and raised a case. Without boring anyone with unnecessary back and forth; what ensued was 7 weeks of arguments. That required 42 separate telephone calls to get sorted. PCIC returned barely any of them, both dealerships were very good to be fair, but their powers are limited.

Throughout all of this:

• Technicians at my local dealership confirmed it was not my fault, and this should be processed by Porsche as a Warranty claim. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.
• Technicians at the original dealership also confirmed it was not my fault, and should be processed by Porsche as a Warranty claim. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.
• Porsche Care UK also agreed it was likely not my fault, and tried to negotiate with the warranty administrators. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.

The end result was a contribution from both dealers, and a 'goodwill' contribution from Porsche Care. I had to pay the balance.

So my warning to prospective owners is this - the approved used scheme is basically a marketed fabrication - there's a lot of exclusions it seems. I did not expect tyres or brake pads to be covered. I did expect major exhaust components to be covered. This was never communicated to me at the time of purchase. Bearing in mind the cost of the part alone, it should be made crystal clear.

I'm back to enjoying my 718 as I should have been, but I have lost all confidence in the brand, and their service. I have submitted an official complaint to Porsche, and additionally the Financial Conduct Authority and the Motor Ombudsman - they are evidently mis-selling the warranty product, which just isn't fair.
I've never done this with anything I've ever bought in 31 years of being alive, but I was so upset by all of it, and I am not willing to let it slide.

So if you're thinking of buying approved used, get a technician to go through all of that inspection report with you line-by-line; being 'that customer' in the dealership may make you feel a little demanding, but it may just serve to protect you.

I hope none of you ever have the experience I have - and happy and safe driving to all of you.

[iborguk]

Welcome and that sounds painful.

Glad it's now behind you and hope you're back to enjoying the car.

I've had a better experience with the warranty but the issues I've had have been kinda binary ,"it's broke" and not in any grey area re wear n tear.

Did you get any feedback on the actual issue with the GPF ?

Edited August 21, 2023 by iborguk

[Menoporsche]

Thanks for coming on and sharing. 
Yes Porsche usually take some pushing for warranty claims. As we sometimes say, there is a reason they are apparently “the most profitable car company in the world”. 
sadly I suspect this won’t be the last such story like this. A couple of member have had similar fights. 
Hope you can enjoy the car for what it is and not think about the brand much. 

[iborguk]

Another instance...

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1141351

Also seeing references to the GPF being designed for the lifetime of the car...which rails against the OP's experience and that of the owner in the link above.

Edited August 21, 2023 by iborguk

[Mattman42]

Thats a crappy tale you shouldn't have had to tell - you would have thought they would want to maintain your loyalty by stepping up to the warranty.

Just goes to show, doesn't matter who its with, these warranty companies will try and wriggle out of anything they can.

Glad to hear its sorted now - on the plus side, you know have an awesome car to enjoy and sounds like your local dealers are also trustworthy too - its the PCIC and warranty company at fault.

From the sound of it - even an inspection report at time of purchase wouldn't have helped in this case

[Patt]

I escalated my first claim with Porsche - the dealer manager (Bournemouth)decided to de-escalate it, ie ignore HQ, and pass it back to the one person I had raised it originally against !

Last week they lied to Reading lied to me whilst ordering parts, then expected me to pay them almost £1000 without even being able to see a cost breakdown ! I was that awkward customer, and I shall always be as too often I have experience less that satisfactory OPC customer service.

All nice with smiles, but any errors, or lack of service are always dealt with by:

ownership on customer

lies

and that condescending attitude.

Like you, I thought paying £8K over the market value for the warranty would be a safeguard.  Then you have to fight each time, check the car afterwards, and remove the paint damage from their poor attempt to clean it.  Ohh, and don't expect any actual car knowledge either from sales, service or "gold class technician"  

Intermittent sticking brakes is not a safety issue !

 

Once you realign your attitude to meet their expectations, it's a lot more like a business transaction.  I will not allow them to lie to me once, I will not allow them to talk down to me.  I am still polite, but I do send them away to "go learn" whenever they lie...and I wait for them to return. (yet never to appologise)

I make sure I am 100 % satisfied, I don't care what their excuse is  - I make sure I am completely satisfied before I allow them to leave or fob me off. And if they aren't sure, I let them know, I don't care if they have to do their actual job, they can wait until I have told them I have been satisfied.  Be that options on a car, checking higher and lower assy part numbers, or even walking out to their rear car park to check their inventory....and no matter what, they are always told to never clean my car.

[Patt]

3 minutes ago, Mattman42 said:

on the plus side, you know have an awesome car to enjoy and sounds like your local dealers are also trustworthy too - its the PCIC and warranty company at fault.

From the sound of it - even an inspection report at time of purchase wouldn't have helped in this case

They refuse to show you said inspection sheet though !

Or even the computer history of the car, ie servicing /accident/warranty work.

[hopz121]

Sorry to hear this OP.

No way should this have happened so soon into the life of the car, we had a similar issue with a pan roof on a macan, Porsche UK weren't the best in dealing with it either!

I'd go and put some miles on the car and try to enjoy it the best you can, its a great car when they work without hitch.

I am so glad our GTS doesn't have a GPF as I reckon there is going to be loads of horror stores like this going forward with Porsche and other manufactures, ill actively avoid buying a car with a GPF if I can, more to go wrong by the looks of it. My old daily had a nox cat and that was a nightmare too!

[Patt]

If I buy with, I intend to replace with bypass pipes. Even if the Porsche ones are about £3k !

[hopz121]

4 minutes ago, Patt said:

If I buy with, I intend to replace with bypass pipes. Even if the Porsche ones are about £3k !

I wasn't even aware Porsche did a kit for this. I assume it will still void the warranty though? 

[Patt]

just for that part of the exhaust. and it will be aftermarket not OEM, although usually in titanium or inconel ie lighter and more heat resistant.

Porsche even tell the Yanks their market doesn't have them fitted....but they do !

[BBB]

From what I’ve (just) read, the GPF should be automatically regenerated by the ECU so it should never fill with carbon.

[Menoporsche]

Yes they said that about my DPF in my Toyota. Who then wanted to charge me 3k to change it when it filled up and couldn’t be regenerated. 
Luckily asking around I got a ref for a good third party manufacturer, expecting to buy it for 800 and somehow it came out at 250 - dynamic pricing I’ll never know - and was then fitted by my mate. The lady selling them said “lucky you don’t have a Mazda, they are close to 5k”. 
IIRC they work ok on high mileage vehicles but soon fill up on those only used for the school run. 

[BrianJ]

5 hours ago, thyde91 said:

I've actually never posted in a single forum in my life, but I've recently had an experience which I felt needed to be shared - edven if nothing further comes from it, if it raises a bit of awareness, then that'll be good enough.

I'm just an average bloke, who worked hard and saved, and was extremely proud to walk into Porsche Portsmouth (UK) and buy a Porsche Approved-Used 718 Cayman (Base Spec, 2.0l 4-cyl, manual) in August 2022. I'd done my research, bought a lovely and clean 2019 model, with just over 15,000 miles on the clock for about £45,000.

I thought going down the Approved Used route would mean I would certainly have a few years of trouble free motoring. Porsche tout an extensive multi-point inspection as part of their approved used scheme, which thereafter is still covered by a comprehensive 2 year warranty and assistance programme, and generally only appl;ies to cars which have alwasy had a full Porsche main dealer service history from new.

After around 10 months of ownership, a warning light came up on the dash, saying 'Engine Control Fault. Contact Dealer. Driving Permitted'. I rang my local dealership, who advised the best course of action was to call Porsche Assist, who would come out and diagnose it; if needed, they'd organise transport to a dealership too.
At this point, I wasn't at all worried, as I knew I had my approved-used warranty.

The Porsche Assist technician advised it was something to do with the DPF/GPF. At this point, I hasten to add, I'd only covered 1500 miles since purchasing the car. All my journeys were around 50-75 miles each time, and usually driving a fairly 'spirited'.

It was taken to Porsche Cambridge, who advised the GPF was full of ash, and the complete catalytic converter had to be replaced. I was then told, this was a 'fair wear and tear item', and I had to foot the bill.

A reminder - I purchased the car for £45,000, and had covered 1500 miles. I was now being asked to pay a further £6,538 for a new catalytic converter and fitting.

Needless to say, I was so upset, and completely furious. I knew that I had absolutely not filled up a GPF in 1500 miles of use; and bearing in mind that, I wanted to know why the dealership's 100+ point inspection hadn't flagged it as being nearly full of ash and rectified it prior to me purchasing the car.

I went back to the original dealership and raised my concerns, who agreed this wasn't fair. I was told to raise a case with Porsche UK Customer Interaction Centre (PCIC), to get it escalated.

I did just that, and raised a case. Without boring anyone with unnecessary back and forth; what ensued was 7 weeks of arguments. That required 42 separate telephone calls to get sorted. PCIC returned barely any of them, both dealerships were very good to be fair, but their powers are limited.

Throughout all of this:

• Technicians at my local dealership confirmed it was not my fault, and this should be processed by Porsche as a Warranty claim. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.
• Technicians at the original dealership also confirmed it was not my fault, and should be processed by Porsche as a Warranty claim. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.
• Porsche Care UK also agreed it was likely not my fault, and tried to negotiate with the warranty administrators. That claim was denied by Porsche UK.

The end result was a contribution from both dealers, and a 'goodwill' contribution from Porsche Care. I had to pay the balance.

So my warning to prospective owners is this - the approved used scheme is basically a marketed fabrication - there's a lot of exclusions it seems. I did not expect tyres or brake pads to be covered. I did expect major exhaust components to be covered. This was never communicated to me at the time of purchase. Bearing in mind the cost of the part alone, it should be made crystal clear.

I'm back to enjoying my 718 as I should have been, but I have lost all confidence in the brand, and their service. I have submitted an official complaint to Porsche, and additionally the Financial Conduct Authority and the Motor Ombudsman - they are evidently mis-selling the warranty product, which just isn't fair.
I've never done this with anything I've ever bought in 31 years of being alive, but I was so upset by all of it, and I am not willing to let it slide.

So if you're thinking of buying approved used, get a technician to go through all of that inspection report with you line-by-line; being 'that customer' in the dealership may make you feel a little demanding, but it may just serve to protect you.

I hope none of you ever have the experience I have - and happy and safe driving to all of you.

I have also had reason to question the Porsche Approved Warranty on my 981 with a better outcome - see https://www.BoXa.net/topic/96112-porsche-approved-warranty/. Having read the contract in some detail in preparing for the worst, I was somewhat surprised to find that although in my case the insurer is German, the contract is very specific that English law applies. I think in your circumstances I would be seriously considering a court claim through what used to be called the small claims court. There seem to be quite a few people suffering the same fate as you with the GPF and I have seen talk of a class action. It’s always difficult to denigrate the expensive car you have bought because of the impact on residuals, but if successful can have the reverse effect. What an awful experience you are having.

 

[iborguk]

https://www.718forum.com/threads/approved-used-718-cayman-a-minor-warranty-horror-story.28524/

 

[iborguk]

A40 oil and GPFs don't mix then.

Edited August 21, 2023 by iborguk

[718as]

Do all 718's have a GPF?

Thanks

[iborguk]

Just now, 718as said:

Do all 718's have a GPF?

Thanks

No, late 2018 onwards iirc.

[Patt]

I think it's just the 4.0 NA engines (including 992)that have them - but I a m not 100% sure.

[iborguk]

9 minutes ago, Patt said:

I think it's just the 4.0 NA engines (including 992)that have them - but I a m not 100% sure.

2.0 and 2.5 got them too.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-sale-new-vehicles-europe-15574.html

 

[hopz121]

2 hours ago, 718as said:

Do all 718's have a GPF?

Thanks

Some early 68 cars don't have it (ours doesnt) it was end of 2018/early 2019 they started to come with them. I think the power output is slightly less on the GPF cars too which is a giveaway. 

[iborguk]

Yes the article I linked confirms late 2018 onwards.

I've also heard the PSE also sounds slightly less gruff on the GPF enabled cars.

[224 Peter]

5 hours ago, iborguk said:

No, late 2018 onwards iirc.

Another reason to keep my late 2016 Boxster S.....

Registered in November 2016, but with only 17,000 miles on the display. I added 6500 in the last 12 months! 

[mark-yorkshire]

Shocking treatment by Porsche GB. How on earth can that not be covered by the approved used warranty. I had similar issues with DPF on a diesel Macan and got £1500 compensation for my inconvenience.

[Jonttt]

Blocked DPF is not uncommon on lots of marques, including commercial vehicles. Its usually caused by use ‘not conducive’ with regeneration criteria lol, failed regens can also cause oil dilution as unburnt excess fuel used for the regen process seeps back through pistons …….plus they never make a car sound better 

Blocked DPF can normally be unblocked by forcing DPF cleaning fluid through the sensor pressure tube ie you can clean them without the need to remove, I’ve done it on SWMBO Evoque for the cost of a hand pressure pump and fluid (ie about £40, RR wanted c£3k for a new DPF). I’m not sure if thats possible on a boxster though ?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Jonttt