Won't start, reduced power warning

[Terryg]

My 987.2 has never been as quick to fire up as my 986 but last weekend it was very reluctant to start but eventually did and run fine after  about 30 seconds or so. Today she would not fire at at all, backfired and a bit of smoke, error message came up saying "reduced power". I will get it on a basic coder reader on Tuesday but does this sound familiar to anyone,  any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[iborguk]

Get it on a code reader as you say.

Could be battery , coil packs.

 

[Menoporsche]

Restricted fuel supply? Fuel filter?

[Terryg]

Thanks gents, if it is as cheap as those, I'd be happy. I am hoping that as it ran well after eventually starting last week, all will be well.

Edited March 4 by Terryg

[Paul P]

@Gramps does this sound like the high pressure fuel pump to you ? 

[Gramps]

2 hours ago, Paul P said:

@Gramps does this sound like the high pressure fuel pump to you ? 

Hi Paul 🙂 (and @Terryg). 

Wouldn't like to say it was the HPFP for sure. Mine never backfired in the 9 or so months I had the problem. 

It would cough and splutter then possibly conk out or run with the "reduced power" error message, but it did always start.

Ideally Terryg needs to get a OBD2 reader like the iCarSoft or similar that can read the HPFP output.

Mine used to take 4,5,6 attempts to run properly but would start each time but I think some choose not to try and fire it up when there's a problem, which I can understand but it wasn't something that bothered me as I didn't believe it was doing any harm to the engine.

I would offer to help but sadly Terryg is in Ireland but always here at the other end of the keyboard if I can help in any way 🙂

[Terryg]

21 minutes ago, Gramps said:

Hi Paul 🙂 (and @Terryg). 

Wouldn't like to say it was the HPFP for sure. Mine never backfired in the 9 or so months I had the problem. 

It would cough and splutter then possibly conk out or run with the "reduced power" error message, but it did always start.

Ideally Terryg needs to get a OBD2 reader like the iCarSoft or similar that can read the HPFP output.

Mine used to take 4,5,6 attempts to run properly but would start each time but I think some choose not to try and fire it up when there's a problem, which I can understand but it wasn't something that bothered me as I didn't believe it was doing any harm to the engine.

I would offer to help but sadly Terryg is in Ireland but always here at the other end of the keyboard if I can help in any way 🙂

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I suspect there has been something not 100% for a while but it never showed up at the last service. Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow, car will be up for sale this month so need to get it sorted.

[Gramps]

2 minutes ago, Terryg said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I suspect there has been something not 100% for a while but it never showed up at the last service. Hopefully I'll find out tomorrow, car will be up for sale this month so need to get it sorted.

No worries. Hopefully it won't be the HPFP as they are not cheap to purchase (about £800) or fit (£500 at an Indy?). But at least they are available now, mine took 4months 😌. Neither of those scenarios  are appealing when  you're looking to sell. GLWTS when it comes to it and here to offer any advice from my hard earnt experience if I can 😅

[Terryg]

12 minutes ago, Gramps said:

No worries. Hopefully it won't be the HPFP as they are not cheap to purchase (about £800) or fit (£500 at an Indy?). But at least they are available now, mine took 4months 😌. Neither of those scenarios  are appealing when  you're looking to sell. GLWTS when it comes to it and here to offer any advice from my hard earnt experience if I can 😅

It is being sold through the specialist who serviced it last year, so they would have a good incentive to fix it. Problem is, they are the other side of the country.

[Gramps]

3 minutes ago, Terryg said:

It is being sold through the specialist who serviced it last year, so they would have a good incentive to fix it. Problem is, they are the other side of the country.

  Hopefully they'll pin it down and it'll be an easy/cheap fix 👍

[bbrbob]

12 hours ago, Gramps said:

Hi Paul 🙂 (and @Terryg). 

Wouldn't like to say it was the HPFP for sure. Mine never backfired in the 9 or so months I had the problem. 

It would cough and splutter then possibly conk out or run with the "reduced power" error message, but it did always start.

Ideally Terryg needs to get a OBD2 reader like the iCarSoft or similar that can read the HPFP output.

Mine used to take 4,5,6 attempts to run properly but would start each time but I think some choose not to try and fire it up when there's a problem, which I can understand but it wasn't something that bothered me as I didn't believe it was doing any harm to the engine.

I would offer to help but sadly Terryg is in Ireland but always here at the other end of the keyboard if I can help in any way 🙂

This is the exact symptoms mine had.  One new HPFP later and it now starts just fine.  Prices for part and fitting were as mentioned above.  

[nelmo]

Fuel pump is only £375 from Design911 (£215 if you go pattern part) and DIY fitting looks pretty simple...remove battery, remove panel under that.

EDIT: ah sorry, 987.2, so pump is £420...

Edited March 5 by nelmo

[Paul P]

3 minutes ago, nelmo said:

Fuel pump is only £375 from Design911 (£215 if you go pattern part) and DIY fitting looks pretty simple...remove battery, remove panel under that.

EDIT: ah sorry, 987.2, so pump is £420...

If it the High Pressure fuel pump then I suspect there's only genuine parts available - they were on back order for a big chunk of last year with no 3rd party solutions and a "refurb" service running out of Poland.

It's not the one in the tank (981 and 987.2 S share the same part) 

https://www.design911shop.com/p/porsche-981-boxster-cayman-high-pressure-fuel-pump-9a111031506/?currency=GBP&country=GB&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAopuvBhBCEiwAm8jaMaaAVeoiuC93rMNsRS8RbTYxRUKDdr0y3YP5ESPA4N3C8geH4E6VUBoCUzoQAvD_BwE

Hopefully all academic and it's not that.

[nelmo]

6 minutes ago, Paul P said:

If it the High Pressure fuel pump then I suspect there's only genuine parts available - they were on back order for a big chunk of last year with no 3rd party solutions and a "refurb" service running out of Poland.

It's not the one in the tank (981 and 987.2 S share the same part) 

https://www.design911shop.com/p/porsche-981-boxster-cayman-high-pressure-fuel-pump-9a111031506/?currency=GBP&country=GB&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAopuvBhBCEiwAm8jaMaaAVeoiuC93rMNsRS8RbTYxRUKDdr0y3YP5ESPA4N3C8geH4E6VUBoCUzoQAvD_BwE

Hopefully all academic and it's not that.

Ah apologies, I guess there is a low pressure pump as well and that's what I was looking at? Damn, that's an expensive part and job...

[Menoporsche]

17 minutes ago, Paul P said:

and a "refurb" service running out of Poland.

Terry could be in luck, probably still strong links between Ireland and Poland.

[Gramps]

I asked for my old HPFP back after it was replaced as I wanted to have a poke around on it. Once it kicked in it worked fine all day and wouldn't miss a beat so the mechanical workings of the pump were presumeably ok and the problem would appear to lay with whatever "activates" the pump. To that end there is a solenoid which I DC tested sticking 12v on it and that appeared to operate ok. I get the impression that whatever the issue is with the pump it is probably something minor which makes it hard to bite the bullet and dig deep into the pockets to get it replaced, which is one of the reasons I took so long to get mine done, by the time I bit the bullet stock had ran out and they were on back order. Maybe there's someone out there who will probably (well definitely) know more about the workings of these things than I do who might want to take a look? 

[Menoporsche]

The usual electronics guru here is @Richard Hamilton, I don't know if his expertise/interest goes to electro-mechanicals also.

[½cwt]

1 hour ago, Menoporsche said:

The usual electronics guru here is @Richard Hamilton, I don't know if his expertise/interest goes to electro-mechanicals also.

He hasn't been on here for about a month...  I've tagged him a couple of times for other queries in that time.

[Terryg]

 

Please see below, posted twice so deleted this one

Edited March 5 by Terryg

[Terryg]

Well gents you were spot on. Advice from indie was make sure battery was fully charged, advice from my local garage was to not touch the accelerator. So we connected up a battery pack and she fired up after much complaining but ran like a dog with "reduced power" message on dash. Did the computer thing (turned it off and back on again) and message disappeared and she ran perfect.

Did an Italian Tune Up in Sport Plus.

Connected reader which shows P1023 Fuel pressure to low on start up and P1026 Fuel high pressure implausible.

Took her for another Italian Tune up for no better reason than this is my last week with her probably.

I have access to full garage facilities, two post lifts etc., has anyone replaced one themselves?

 

 

[Paul P]

3 hours ago, Gramps said:

I asked for my old HPFP back after it was replaced as I wanted to have a poke around on it. Once it kicked in it worked fine all day and wouldn't miss a beat so the mechanical workings of the pump were presumeably ok and the problem would appear to lay with whatever "activates" the pump. To that end there is a solenoid which I DC tested sticking 12v on it and that appeared to operate ok. I get the impression that whatever the issue is with the pump it is probably something minor which makes it hard to bite the bullet and dig deep into the pockets to get it replaced, which is one of the reasons I took so long to get mine done, by the time I bit the bullet stock had ran out and they were on back order. Maybe there's someone out there who will probably (well definitely) know more about the workings of these things than I do who might want to take a look? 

that's interesting - clearly an issue in the pump since replacing the unit fixes the issues I had assumed the pump was mechanical  - thinking the solenoid activates a clutch of some kind? Or is it electric where the solenoid turns it on - so maybe a bearing sticking as it wears

Out of interest - those who have had the failure - what mileage approx are you at ?

 

[Gramps]

1 hour ago, Terryg said:

Well gents you were spot on. Advice from indie was make sure battery was fully charged, advice from my local garage was to not touch the accelerator. So we connected up a battery pack and she fired up after much complaining but ran like a dog with "reduced power" message on dash. Did the computer thing (turned it off and back on again) and message disappeared and she ran perfect.

Did an Italian Tune Up in Sport Plus.

Connected reader which shows P1023 Fuel pressure to low on start up and P1026 Fuel high pressure implausible.

Took her for another Italian Tune up for no better reason than this is my last week with her probably.

I have access to full garage facilities, two post lifts etc., has anyone replaced one themselves?

 

 

After much googling I was going to have a go at doing it myself as I came across a post from aguy that had managed to do it without lowering the engine which is normally required to gain access to all 3 of the bolts that secure it to the engine. You need a long reach E10 socket  but can't get one in there due to the restricted access between engine and rear bulkhead. This guy had used a normal length socket with a 6 sided to 4 sided adapter and  a spanner on that. If you want further details let me know 🙂. I was very fortunate that Porsche offered to fit it for free. Took them 3 days with sized gearbox mounting bolts and included taking the rear bumper of?? 

[bbrbob]

Mine started grumbling at 55K and slowly got worse over time.  It was better if used it every day and worse if I left it a week or so.  Swapped at 59K.

Edited March 5 by bbrbob

[Terryg]

2 hours ago, Gramps said:

After much googling I was going to have a go at doing it myself as I came across a post from aguy that had managed to do it without lowering the engine which is normally required to gain access to all 3 of the bolts that secure it to the engine. You need a long reach E10 socket  but can't get one in there due to the restricted access between engine and rear bulkhead. This guy had used a normal length socket with a 6 sided to 4 sided adapter and  a spanner on that. If you want further details let me know 🙂. I was very fortunate that Porsche offered to fit it for free. Took them 3 days with sized gearbox mounting bolts and included taking the rear bumper of?? 

I saw that video, I think we could do it, but it is 10 days to get it and it leaves a very small window before I go to Dubai and insuarance runs out. I may just let the specialist who is selling it do it.

[Gramps]

3 hours ago, Paul P said:

that's interesting - clearly an issue in the pump since replacing the unit fixes the issues I had assumed the pump was mechanical  - thinking the solenoid activates a clutch of some kind? Or is it electric where the solenoid turns it on - so maybe a bearing sticking as it wears

Out of interest - those who have had the failure - what mileage approx are you at ?

 

The pump itself is definitely mechanical (driven off the end of the camshaft) and that side of it would seem to've been fine. I get the impression the solenoid side of it actually opens a valve that lets the high pressure through. It seems that maybe the solenoid was sticking but eventually opened and once open it was fine. Also no probs whatsoever once warm or even a few hours after stopping the engine, like bbrbob says if left till cold/next day or beyond then you were back to square 1. Who knows, may even have been just a bad connection to the solenoid that was cleared when it was disconnected?? God I hope not 🤣. I checked the piston and washers on the valve operated by the solenoid and all looks good, again if there was a mechanical issue with that valve I though I would've possibly seen something amiss. 

Mine was high 80's when the problem was first noticed, but on googling some of the MY2009 & MY2010 cars that had the HPFP replaced by Porsche were well below 40k miles?? My MY2011 didn't qualify for free replacement by Porsche and it did last a fair while so maybe Porsche did rectify whatever the initial manufacturing problem was??