A few questions about 987s - prospective buyer

[anopenmind]

I had quite a promising conversation with my wife last night about maybe changing from my turbo’d MX5 to a 987 in the near future. It’s something I’ve been mulling over / getting borderline obsessed with for a long time now. I’ve got a chance of a significant pay increase in the next few months and if it happens, we’ve agreed I can spent a portion of it a loan for a new fast toy. Could be up to £18k, although I would probably prefer to spend less than that, as we’re in the middle of renovating our house. Anyway, I have a few questions about these cars. I’ve done a lot of reading on this forum and elsewhere but have a few questions specific to my style of ownership and driving:

How lairy are they in the wet / what is the traction control like at keeping things in check when pushing on?  In my MX5 turbo, the power (220whp ish) comes on quite suddenly so I have to be really careful putting the power down in less than ideal conditions. Although the MX5 is easy to catch when it slides, being a 1992 car it has no electronic driving aids whatsoever. I’m hoping the 987 might be a lot safer in this regard and generally a more relaxing drive.

What options are ‘must-haves’ and why? Especially noting the above. E.g. I think there’s PASM but how much difference does this really make?

Any reason to get the smaller engined cars other than price? I’ve noticed some people specifically search for a 2.9. It seems really hard for me to mentally move away from the desire to get an ‘S’ car over a 2.7/2.9. Although I can see that a 987.2 2.9 could be had in my budget (don’t seem to be any 987.2 3.4s though).

I prefer to DIY maintain my cars. Including the family Merc, as well as my toys. I usually buy an ECU reader (Carsoft for the Merc) for diagnosing problems and fiddly maintenance tasks. I assume something like this is available for Boxsters? Are there any tricky maintenance tasks on Boxsters that a competent DIYer would struggle with? E.g. spark plugs, timing belts, etc are all easy stuff on the MX5, but the engine in a Boxster isn’t under the bonnet…!

[Menoporsche]

After a 1992 MX5, even a turbo, any 987 will seem like a major upgrade.

Crudely put, a 987.1 is a 986 under the skin.  A 987.2 is a 981 under the skin.  Stretch your budget as you wish.  987.2 more rare as they simply didn't sell so many during the global financial crisis.

987.2 gets you PDK which has converted many "I'd never have an auto in a sports car" diehards. Would also address an issue you might notice, the (lack of) torque of the NA engine. That's the main difference between engines - forget 0-60 times. The biggest difference between the two cars is the skills/cojones of the driver.

Lairy - Boxsters are mid-engined, you don't easily drift/break the rear end and slide them. They prefer to spin, but all 987 have PSM. Get some good Michelin tyres on it and play on a track to get a feel for it. They do need respect around wet bends though.

iCarsoft reader recommended for the Porsche, and you can go up as far as budget allows even to PIWIS. And many say how stunned they are that the Boxster is so easy to work on, so don't worry about that. It's just that most of it is from underneath, so a ramp/pit or good stands will be helpful.

 

[Mattman42]

If you can stretch to an S - go for it, although don't discount a well specced 2.9 if it turns up. I've had both and for 99% of the time, i don't see much difference in normal driving. On a track or pushing on would be different. If you are getting a PDK, the sport chrono with sports plus is a worthwhile option to seek out as it tweaks the throttle response and holds gears, gives you launch control too.

Once you start looking, you'll find the specs are all over the place, literally no 2 cars are the same, so look for the options that you want and narrow your search. Things like heated seats and PSE can be retrofitted if needed. Overall I would say buy on condition and service history first - these are not new cars and can throw up chunky bills, so a car that has had that maintenance done would be a 'safer' bet.

People on here will give you their own preferences on "must have" options but it doesn't make a huge amount of difference in the end - its a great car, superb value for money, surprisingly practical and will give you lots of smiles and enjoyment. I've also had 2 mk1 MX5s and a Mk3 and they are not a patch on the Boxster

[Patt]

You need to use the revs more in a 2.7/2.9, other than the slightly smaller brakes, there is no real difference.

Oh and the "is it an S?" is most peeps question.  So a deal of badge snobbery.

Compared to an MX5 it with feel slower due to the extra weight.  As for 0-60 4.6 sec on 3.4 DPI PDK is factory spec, not exactly slow.

I'm not a fan of the nanny electrics and often turn them down in bad weather as they will grab the rear brakes during a slide.

If you want a more fun car - turn your MX5 into an MEV Exocet 😉

[Topbox]

Welcome @anopenmind Mattman & Meno give sound advice and  Mattman has had similar car experience, you're in good hands. I have had a 986 then the 2.9 987.2. I think most would agree that 2.9 was a very good reliable engine, hence why some seek it. Confirm for yourself, but Porsche set the Boxster up to understeer when pushed, part of this is the smaller front tyres. This is because if they do let go they are harder to catch as the mid-engine makes them spin like a top. My driving talent is very modest I always feel very comfortable in the Boxster. I took my 2.9 around Spa, my first ever track event, great fun, the Boxster looked after me. They only bite the careless. If you drive a lot at night look for a car with the Xenon lights, they have washers, standard lights do not. Boxster standard headlights, by common agreement, are candles. They can be upgraded of course. Boxsters are a very good car for touring and passengers, which helps to keep partners onside. Go to France, go to the Alps,  Good luck 👍

[nelmo]

As a new Boxster owner and my first Porsche, I am really enjoying the experience. My son briefly owned a standard MX5 (NC) and I thought it was a great car, although I never drove it down a country road, so can't speak for the performance and can't compare.

The Boxster (3.2) is the fastest car I've owned (I have a kit car which is almost as quick to 60 but tails off rapidly after that) and I've always had the PASM enabled and had no problems driving to my limits, even in the wet. I switched it off the other day and...nothing...it seemed to be exactly the same! Bottom line, this car has so much natural grip (really big tyres for its size) that triggering the PASM system in normal driving is rare, for me anyway. It definitely does trigger coming out of junctions hard and if I try a 0-60 time but otherwise, not often.

One thing I will say, I don't rate the brakes at all. They obviously work and will engage your seatbelt but there is so much pedal travel, I don't find them confidence inspiring at all. I've had them bled, which made little difference - I'm told changing to a GT3 (?) master cylinder helps and maybe one day...

Also, the flat 6 sound (stock exhaust) is really, really, really, really stupendous. Put the roof down and just tootling along sounds great - pass 3k rpm and it's a lovely wail, pass 5k rpm and the Hounds of Hell are on your tail 😉  - best bit IMO.

Edited March 4 by nelmo

[Menoporsche]

3 minutes ago, nelmo said:

One thing I will say, I don't rate the brakes at all. They obviously work and will engage your seatbelt but there is so much pedal travel, I don't find them confidence inspiring at all. I've had them bled, which made little difference - I'm told changing to a GT3 (?) master cylinder helps and maybe one day...

Check them against a few others, your car is nearly 20 years old and might have individual problems (eg horribly corroded insides of discs). But this is a very common criticism that the brake feel is terrible compared to modern (over)servoed "They all do that sir" - but the acid test, go down a road and slam the anchors on, usually shows that they work better than for most cars on the road.  Good point to flag it though.

[Patt]

My first 986 had shocking brakes.  Wasn't fixed until I replaced the seals in the front calipers.

Parts bought from Bigg Red very cheaply IIRC about £20

[nelmo]

23 minutes ago, Menoporsche said:

Check them against a few others, your car is nearly 20 years old and might have individual problems (eg horribly corroded insides of discs). But this is a very common criticism that the brake feel is terrible compared to modern (over)servoed "They all do that sir" - but the acid test, go down a road and slam the anchors on, usually shows that they work better than for most cars on the road.  Good point to flag it though.

I've slammed them on a few times and yes, they are fine - it's the dead travel before they bite that annoys me most. My daughter's 2008 Aygo is better - the brakes start doing something as soon as you touch the pedal, ditto for my sisters old Golf and every other car I've driven, including my un-servo'd, non-ABS kit car 🙂 

It's not a show-stopper, just a wrinkle in the Bedspread of Enjoyment 🙂 

[Paul P]

I would also note are the boxster has a lot more luggage space, which can be a domestic selling point and is actually very usable.

Other than that - buy with your head - they don't do well on deferred maintenance - look for evidence of money spent on brakes and suspension, personal taste on modifications but you will soon tell from the adverts if the entire maintenance budget has been spent on stickers vs oil changes.

You didn't say where you are based, but there maybe someone near enough to you for a show and tell over a coffee if you want to have a look around a few cars and get some pointers - or reach out to a local club (Porsche Club GB or TIPEC - depends on where you are as to how useful that might be).

[Patt]

ahh sounds like you need to adapt to the very late ABS trigger.  The Evo is very similar - the ABS switch is almost under the the carpet , it's that late.

My 986 it felt like you were not going to stop, even at 30mph

This is a design feature to stop the ABS being intrusive to the driving experience, much like the lack of a tick/click for the indicators flashing. Or the fact the lock alarm doesn't chirp.

[Menoporsche]

27 minutes ago, nelmo said:

it's the dead travel before they bite that annoys me most

I got my calipers serviced, installed braided hoses, GT3 m/c and RBF600 fluid. They felt better. Which was the key action amongst those, or if each contributed equally, I have no idea.

[anopenmind]

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I’ve been in (but not driven) a 911 and a 981 with the PDK, and I’m sure it’s not for me. I just love the connection to the power and torque of an engine that you only really get with a clutch and manual box. I’ve spent enough time driving other automatics to be sure about this.

I live in Worthing, West Sussex and will look out for Porsche events in the area.

i haven’t ruled out a 2.9. There’s a lot of appeal in getting a younger, lower mileage car for my money by buying a 2.9, and I also think I might enjoy pushing the smaller engine hard. Lower likelihood of engine problems sounds like a plus too - are these engine less susceptible to bore score? I read that the 3.4s are more susceptible to this due to their piston and cylinder design.

I still don’t understand what a ‘well specced’ car is? Xenons sounds good but if they can be retro-fitted easily then that’s something I can ignore and do later if my usual approach of “refurb the headlights to like-new and fit nightbreakers” doesn’t work. It seems to me like I’ll mostly be focussing on whether the colour of the car/interior is what I want, but moveover whether the condition of the car, service history and apparent ‘ownership’ history adds up.

[Mattman42]

1 hour ago, anopenmind said:

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I’ve been in (but not driven) a 911 and a 981 with the PDK, and I’m sure it’s not for me. I just love the connection to the power and torque of an engine that you only really get with a clutch and manual box. I’ve spent enough time driving other automatics to be sure about this.

I live in Worthing, West Sussex and will look out for Porsche events in the area.

i haven’t ruled out a 2.9. There’s a lot of appeal in getting a younger, lower mileage car for my money by buying a 2.9, and I also think I might enjoy pushing the smaller engine hard. Lower likelihood of engine problems sounds like a plus too - are these engine less susceptible to bore score? I read that the 3.4s are more susceptible to this due to their piston and cylinder design.

I still don’t understand what a ‘well specced’ car is? Xenons sounds good but if they can be retro-fitted easily then that’s something I can ignore and do later if my usual approach of “refurb the headlights to like-new and fit nightbreakers” doesn’t work. It seems to me like I’ll mostly be focussing on whether the colour of the car/interior is what I want, but moveover whether the condition of the car, service history and apparent ‘ownership’ history adds up.

the Gen 2 cars don't suffer from the IMS and bore score issues of the earlier cars, and they also avoid the stupid road tax period

Well specced?  Heated Seats, Sports Chrono, Extended Leather, PSE, BOSE, climate control is a good start point. Look for the central wind deflector and zunsport grilles. I prefer the looks of the bigger wheels, so 19" are desirable to me, but others prefer the 18" as they are slightly softer. PASM and Ceramic Brakes are nice to have, but again, make sure they have been recently serviced/replaced or they will cost you a lot to sort.

PCM with the integrated sat nav is preferable, but its getting on a bit and will get you most places, but if you want Apple Play and the latest maps you'll want to update it. 

If you want to go mad and have everything ticked, you need to buy @Bike Loon's car which is probably the most specced car we've seen on the forum.

 

[Menoporsche]

And right next door. 

[phazed]

Brakes on my 986 and 987 are really good. Very progressive and stop on a sixpence. I have used the 987 on many track days and the feel of a progressive pedal unlike modern cars which want to throw you through the windscreen seems near perfect.

If you want that instant modern car, on-off soft feel of the pedal then you need to look elsewhere.These are sports cars where you need to feel what is happening at the front when braking, (especially heavily). A light, over sensitive pedal takes that realistic feel away.

[Topbox]

1 hour ago, anopenmind said:

I also think I might enjoy pushing the smaller engine hard. Lower likelihood of engine problems sounds like a plus too

Exactly, especially if you want a manual, it's at about 4000rpm and above these engines give the kick. No history of bore score on the 2.9. Not sure how easy it is to upgrade to Xenon's, if you can it will be expensive. Nightbreakers is an easy upgrade option. I think "well specced" falls in two camps ; those twho like  mechanical stuff  PASM, sports plus, Xenon's, PSE, and those more in favour of comfort and convenience, so full leather, cruise, parking sensors, Bose sound, 18 way electric seats. Extras like heated seats, nicer wheels, have universal appeal. If your happy with black, silver of grey you'll have a lot more choice. My 987 was Aqua blue with a tan interior and look fabulous IMHO 🤣 

[TV8]

I have access to my son’s MX5 (mk2.5) and a 986. Driving back to back, I love the MX5 it is such fun and a turbo one would be fairly rapid. The Boxster will be more refined and will probably feel slower as a result but goes very well. 

Do go in eyes open on the parts though and check what you could be getting into. Some of the parts on the MX5 we have needed to change (emissions sensors and cats, plus front callipers and service parts) are a fair bit cheaper. 
 

There is a reasonable sized group of Boxsters that meet in Surrey every weekend and it would be worth popping along to one of those meetings to see the range of cars and the different versions. 

[nelmo]

18 hours ago, phazed said:

Brakes on my 986 and 987 are really good. Very progressive and stop on a sixpence. I have used the 987 on many track days and the feel of a progressive pedal unlike modern cars which want to throw you through the windscreen seems near perfect.

If you want that instant modern car, on-off soft feel of the pedal then you need to look elsewhere.These are sports cars where you need to feel what is happening at the front when braking, (especially heavily). A light, over sensitive pedal takes that realistic feel away.

Ah, that is an interesting viewpoint I've not heard before...I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm out and see if it makes sense...

[Codfanglers]

You need to try and feel a gen2 2.9 and 3.4 to see what you will be happy driving but your gut has already told you which one to buy. After 220bhp turbo power in a lightweight MX5 you may be frustrated with the lack of torque in the 2.9. (I owned a 2.7 for over two years and it was always a frustration for me). If you buy private a decent gen2 3.4 should just about be in reach with your £18k budget.

As far as lights are concerned, you can buy a 55W Xenon dipped beam conversion kit from HIDs 4 U for £90 that will provide all the nice bright white light you'll ever need. Technically they are illegal but I've had no MOT issues and never been "flashed" when using them. Extras are nice and a "loaded" car of this age not that much more expensive than a basic car. Reversing sensors and wind deflector a must for me but both an easy and relatively cheap retrofit, and what do you really need to enhance the driving experience?

DIY - it's just a car. Access not always great but they are well screwed together and a pleasure to work on. 

[anopenmind]

Thanks - that’s a really useful reply 👍

[Pinewood]

22 hours ago, Mattman42 said:

the Gen 2 cars don't suffer from the IMS and bore score issues of the earlier cars, and they also avoid the stupid road tax period

Well specced?  Heated Seats, Sports Chrono, Extended Leather, PSE, BOSE, climate control is a good start point. Look for the central wind deflector and zunsport grilles. I prefer the looks of the bigger wheels, so 19" are desirable to me, but others prefer the 18" as they are slightly softer. PASM and Ceramic Brakes are nice to have, but again, make sure they have been recently serviced/replaced or they will cost you a lot to sort.

PCM with the integrated sat nav is preferable, but its getting on a bit and will get you most places, but if you want Apple Play and the latest maps you'll want to update it. 

If you want to go mad and have everything ticked, you need to buy @Bike Loon's car which is probably the most specced car we've seen on the forum.

 

Your describing my car again Matt, which will be on sale in the near future. OP wants a manual though 🙏🏽

[Boxer boy]

Worth pointing out the gen 2 2.9 is a completely different engine design ( 9A1 ) to the early 986 based 2.7 and 3.2 used in the “S” - incarnations.

As mentioned the latter suffers from IMS + bore scoring risk .Those failure points were designed out in the 9A1 gen 2 2.9 .

Mezgler had a hand this time in the design of the 9A1 , bringing a whole host of race endurance tech to the party .

Arguably the 1996 to early 2009 yrs , are the worst flat 6 s Porsches ever produced.

Theres a lot out there and lot of owners on here …….but seeing as you are in a position to choose  do yourself ( wallet potentially? ) a huge favour and skip any flat 6 Porsche between these  years . Go for a mid 09 yr upwards , which brings in the gen 2 - 2.9 .

 

Sleep easy at night without any worries.

 

 

[Boxer boy]

Worth pointing out the gen 2 2.9 is a completely different engine design ( 9A1 ) to the early 986 based 2.7 and 3.2 used in the “S” - incarnations.

As mentioned the latter suffers from IMS + bore scoring risk .Those failure points were designed out in the 9A1 gen 2 2.9 .

Mezgler had a hand this time in the design of the 9A1 , bringing a whole host of race endurance tech to the party .Closed deck block castings used in the GT 2/3 s and Turbos .Better oil cooling , piston squirting , improved water cooling + a whole host of improvements+++ . Better cylinder surfacing etc etc .

Arguably the 1996 to early 2009 yrs , are the worst flat 6 s Porsches ever produced. 

A collaboration with Toyota in the nineties to reduce manufacturing costs and parts they erroneously adopted a open deck block to save parts number costs . 

Theres a lot out there and lot of owners on here putting a brave face on every time they drive them …….but seeing as you are in a position to choose  do yourself ( wallet potentially? ) a huge favour and skip any flat 6 Porsche between these  years *. Go for a mid 09 yr upwards , which brings in the gen 2 - 2.9 .

 

Sleep easy at night without any worries.

 

*except GT 2/3 and turbo. They are closed deck Mezglers 

[M12MTR]

If your budget allows go for a 987.2 from late 2009. Updated and improved reliability from the 987.1

I owned mine for 7 trouble free years. Servicing and one coolant pipe it was bullet proof.

The 2.9 drives very well and torquey enough. Get a 3.4S if you can stretch.