spook Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 I got my 2012 981BS back in February, and garaged it until the sun finally came out the other day. Took it out for a run to the local MOT garage for its annual ticket, and it ran sweet as a nut. When I returned later to collect it and turned the key, it would barely start. When it did it was misfiring badly. So, in a state of panic I took it straight to my local indy for them to have a look at it, thinking (hoping) it was something straightforward like 'just' a failed coil pack or two. What followed was an education to say the least. Indy plugged in his diagnostic machine and this showed misfire fault codes across both cylinder banks, which either meant multiple coil pack failure (unlikely) or something else. Left the car with them to diagnose. Thinking about what had happened and the sudden onset of the problem, I thought it likely that a sudden component failure was the cause. So, whilst waiting to hear from the indy, I consulted Master Technician Google for some clues in an effort to allay my fears of major engine issues. Turns out that the issue I was experiencing was far from uncommon. The consensus across several owners forums was that a failed VVT solenoid was the likely culprit. I called the indy to put this to them, and the reply was that this was unlikely as the misfires were across both cylinder banks, and there was no fault code on their diagnostic tester to indicate a VVT solenoid issue. They suggested a 'back to basics' approach, with a possible change of plugs and coil packs across the board - I asked them not to do this as these had all been changed at the major service less than 6 months previously. Back to M.T. Google, and I discovered anecdotal evidence indicating that a VVT failure does not trigger any fault code. Apparently this has caught out even Porsche dealers, who have cost poor unfortunates ££££ in unnecessary diagnostics and parts replacement (one even recommended a replacement dual mass flywheel!) before eventually arriving at the correct diagnosis. So, rang back the indy to get them to switch over the VVT solenoids (there are 2) and lo and behold, the misfire transferred to the opposite cylinder bank when the switch was made, clearly proving the failure. Indy couldn't understand why initial diagnosis showed misfires across both banks - the simple answer was that the good VVT solenoid was overcompensating for the bad one, causing rough running on the 'good' bank. I'm now awaiting two replacement VVT solenoids (common sense to replace both) accompanied by an engine oil and filter change. The oil change is necessary due to contamination resulting from over-fuelling as a result of the misfire and consequent risk of 'bore wash', which is why you avoid driving a misfiring Porsche too far ... I bring you this cautionary tale to forewarn the unwary that if one morning you wake up to a chronic misfire in your P & J, even your friendly local Porsche main agent may get it wrong. My car has just covered 70,000 miles, and it occurs to me that there can't be too many pampered 981's out there that have yet hit this mark, which suggests that VVT solenoid failure might become quite a big issue on our cars as time goes on. Anyone with a high mileage 981 who has had a similar issue to mine? I can't help wondering if the VVT solenoid is going to be a banker high mileage failure component.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason986S Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 It's quite sad when you have to tell any garage how to do their job, yet it's their job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jason986S said: It's quite sad when you have to tell any garage how to do their job, yet it's their job.... Very true, but doing so will hopefully have saved me quite a bit of money. Hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason986S Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, spook said: Very true, but doing so will hopefully have saved me quite a bit of money. Hopefully. Oh yeh, you definitely did the right thing. Saved hundreds on not replacing the plugs/packs unnecessarily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araf Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 21 minutes ago, Jason986S said: It's quite sad when you have to tell any garage how to do their job, yet it's their job.... It's not uncommon. Unfortunately the car will tell you what it is experiencing, not the reason for it and many lazy garage mechanics take heed of this rather than puzzling over the cause. It's a computer. If you type 2+4x2 into a calculator it will give the answer as 12 when we all know that the answer is 10. Gutley's car in France was telling the mechanics that it had multiple coil pack failures when the real problem was low voltage from a poor battery (we hope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon61 Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Araf said: It's a computer. If you type 2+4x2 into a calculator it will give the answer as 12 when we all know that the answer is 10. Haha, when did you last buy a calculator, Araf? That's what they used to do when I were a lad, but they've understood the priority of maths operations for a while now. My Casio gives the answer 10 and so too (slightly to my surprise) does the calculator app on my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T24RES Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 @spook Whats the damage for a VVT solenoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, T24RES said: @spook Whats the damage for a VVT solenoid? £86 each, so I'm told. Could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbikerdood Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, spook said: £86 each, so I'm told. Could be worse. Ill get a couple in then .... still only @ 35k lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Nice work and thank you for the heads up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Good post @spook does your research indicate these issues are definitely mileage related, or may they be age related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Just now, Greenman said: Good post @spook does your research indicate these issues are definitely mileage related, or may they be age related? I don't really know. My research is based on anecdotal evidence from other forums, and not all cases cite the mileage involved. That's why I'm asking for folks with high mileage cars to report in to see if a pattern can be established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 With things like solenoids clearly they will wear out at some point, but it's not like these get activated 100s of times every journey (depending on how you drive). I suspect they are just as likely to get sticky from lack of use, I wonder if the issues are more prevalent in those owners who don't drive their cars over winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayk Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Doubt I'll ever get to that mileage even if I keep the car for 10 years, but its great information sharing and good job on the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooid Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 981 seems to be such good cars really, VVT solenoid cost not much imho on 70k sports car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 55 minutes ago, ooid said: 981 seems to be such good cars really, VVT solenoid cost not much imho on 70k sports car. Bloody annoying when it goes though, more so when an OPC struggles to diagnose it properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menoporsche Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 Liked. A valuable heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutley Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 hours ago, Araf said: Gutley's car in France was telling the mechanics that it had multiple coil pack failures when the real problem was low voltage from a poor battery (we hope). Hmm. Wonder if mine could have been the same issue. I guess it depends if they can fail and then start working again. @Russ_S Another possible cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenman Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Gutley said: Hmm. Wonder if mine could have been the same issue. I guess it depends if they can fail and then start working again. @Russ_S Another possible cause? Well it's certainly possible that solonoids can stick and then free themselves, and your symptoms sound similar, but given no fault code is registered I'm not sure how you are supposed to know for sure when as in your case the issue seems to have resolved. I guess it's possible that a weak battery was unable to provide the current to move the solonoids if a little sticky, so possibly a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz05 Posted May 10, 2017 Report Share Posted May 10, 2017 Good to know, thanks for sharing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEZ 9815 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Excellent information, thanks for posting ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy3074 Posted May 11, 2017 Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Interesting tale well told. Thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 Yup - one more thanks for sharing your experience. Any idea how hard is it to change the solenoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxbrownie Posted May 13, 2017 Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 I wonder if this is the issue with my cold starting misfire (and subsequent "reduced engine power" message), after a restart or running warm for a while the car runs great, then again I was also suspecting the temperature sender as I understand the 987.2 sender has separate connections for dial and ECU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Carmine said: Yup - one more thanks for sharing your experience. Any idea how hard is it to change the solenoid? Speaking to the Tech when I picked up my car, the job is very straightforward. The solenoids are at the end of each bank of cylinders and are easily accessible from under the car - it's apparently no more complicated than changing a plug or coil pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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