Are we tyre snobs?

[Freeman]

The frequent questions about tyres made me scratching my head.

Like many I am not a racer and don't do track days. I drive at 70mph - 75mph on the motorways, don't corner hard and don't throw the car from one side to the other, I probably drive 3000 miles per annum so does it really matter which tyre brand I use?

To try and see if there is a big difference between the makes I have produced a small table and entered 5 makes, 3 "Premium" and 3 "Mid Range". All tyres reach the same spec and it seems that the cheapest tyre is the best value with the best overhaul performance.

So the question to ask: If they are the same what is the difference? Are we tyre snobs?

Car Tyres.xls

[Paul O]

On my Cayman and 911 I always had Mitchellin, they are Porsche approved and figured if buying a premium sports car, why ruin the handling with poor tyres for the sake of a few hundred quid. I wouldn't say I was a snob about it, but I was maybe misinformed - I didn't read up on true merits of tyres, so just went with what seemed the best idea.

On my Cayenne tho, I've gone for cheapo budget Ditchfinders. It never gets thrashed, it's a comfy cruiser. It never goes above 80mph and I keep nice stopping distances. I don't need to go out in two days of snow per year as a rule, so budget stuff has been absolutely fine - 2 years on them so far and cost about 30% of price of the premium stuff. More than happy with them.

Would I go budget on a boxster if u got another? Still not sure, probably still go for that safe option. ?

 

[EXY]

Too many experiences of cheap tyres with problems, such as vibration etc.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

[Menoporsche]

Had this discussion before. There are tyres sold at low prices, and there are "cheap/budget" tyres, by which we mean there is notable compromise on the quality (ditch finders). They aren't always the same. I think a few Falkens and Kumhos have seemed pretty good value to those that try them here.

[Darkstar]

I find it hard to understand why you don't put the best tyres on a Boxster and by best I don't  mean most expensive or N rated. The cost of tyres is minor compared the the cost of fuel. 

Then starts the next discussion as to what's the current best.

Michelin Pilot Sports 4.

[PaulQ]

The main thing that generally let's down ultra budget tyres is wet weather grip. Saying that I expect the majority of new tyres manufactured these days though , even some Chinese ones are actually very good. The thing is most people want to play it safe, so will fit a premium or N rated tyre which is fair enough, but I bet that many people wouldn't even notice if someone swapped out there tyres for something much cheaper. Expectation bias has a lot to answer for

 

[PaulQ]

3 minutes ago, Darkstar said:

I find it hard to understand why you don't put the best tyres on a Boxster and by best I don't  mean most expensive or N rated. The cost of tyres is minor compared the the cost of fuel. 

Then starts the next discussion as to what's the current best.

Michelin Pilot Sports 4.

But pilot sport 4's are expensive. That's why many people fit Uniroyal, Kumho, Nexan etc. 

[Nobbie]

I think the number of questions re tyres reflects the knowledge that there isn't a one size fits all approach to buying tyres. We all have different budgets, driving styles, free time to research etc. The default is N rated as a safe choice, but the more you research, the more you gain an appreciation of what you get for your money from other tyres. My 986 needed new fronts when I got it and I went with the default N rated to match the rears. It saved a lot of time considering all the other options and balancing the pros and cons of each. Next time, having read plenty of threads on here from people with much more experience, I might well go midrange for something like Khumos as they seem a good compromise of cost/performance.

I find it odd in tyre debates when people start saying 'it's only those four contact points keeping you on the road, so buy the best" as if you'd drive your car exactly the same irrespective of what tyre you have on. We all adapt out driving to the tyres we have and the condition they are in. An MPS4 with 1.6mm of tread may handle a lot worse in the wet than a new ditch finder. Likewise, a mid range winter tyre will be safer than a MPS4 at -5 degrees. We manage to adapt to variables of weather and wear on our tyres, so we can easily adapt to slightly lower outright grip on the limit if we choose to. In some ways it's more fun to have less grip as you can play with the limits at speeds more suitable to UK roads.

[PaulQ]

Good post @Nobbie

[mikesding]

I bought a 335i previously and it had some brand new unnamed tyres on it. I really noticed how little grip these had under acceleration and under hard braking (only did the latter once thankfully).

I then had some Michelin Pilot Sports after that, and they were a world of difference. When new I could barely break traction in them

 

So from my little experience of one car on different tyre brands, I'd say it makes a fair bit of difference. But as @Nobbie says above, there isn't one tyre fits all, and I imagine some tyres are better in some situations etc.

[Freeman]

57 minutes ago, Darkstar said:

find it hard to understand why you don't put the best tyres on a Boxster and by best I don't  mean most expensive or N rated. The cost of tyres is minor compared the the cost of fuel. 

Then starts the next discussion as to what's the current best.

Michelin Pilot Sports 4.

I don't need to buy tyres yet as those that came with the car are good. At the back I have Pilot sport N4 and at the front Hankook. On my previous cars (Merc E320, Jag XJ8) I had Bridgstone, Continental and Goodyear, always had issue with the steering. The Porsche is the one that has no issues and this is with cheap tyres, it just go where I point it, no vibrations or anything else. 

[PaulQ]

3 minutes ago, Freeman said:

I don't need to buy tyres yet as those that came with the car are good. At the back I have Pilot sport N4 and at the front Hankook. On my previous cars (Merc E320, Jag XJ8) I had Bridgstone, Continental and Goodyear, always had issue with the steering. The Porsche is the one that has no issues and this is with cheap tyres, it just go where I point it, no vibrations or anything else. 

I wouldnt exactly class Hankook as cheap. Cheaper then some tyres, but not in the budget category. 

[Darkstar]

4 minutes ago, PaulQ said:

I wouldnt exactly class Hankook as cheap. Cheaper then some tyres, but not in the budget category. 

This is my thinking that the difference between cheep tyres and good tyres is less than a tank of fuel and I am so glad I bought ps4 as having been on a few BoXa net runs when I did not believe I could stop before ahhhhhhh.

[myfirstboxster]

Changed mine from Nexens to Goodyear eagle F1s and i have to say they have given me more confidence in the car  

[PaulQ]

2 minutes ago, Darkstar said:

This is my thinking that the difference between cheep tyres and good tyres is less than a tank of fuel and I am so glad I bought ps4 as having been on a few BoXa net runs when I did not believe I could stop before ahhhhhhh.

Cheap doesn't necessarily mean bad though, but yes the difference in price can be relatively small. Depends on the tyre size. 255/40/17 in a pilot sport 2 or 4 will cost you 300 quid a pair, where as Kumho Ku39 for example is half this. 

[peter2704]

Had the Kumho ku39 'sport on the elise and was more than happy with them

[PaulQ]

13 minutes ago, myfirstboxster said:

Changed mine from Nexens to Goodyear eagle F1s and i have to say they have given me more confidence in the car  

Nexen do lots of different tyres, some better then others. N6000 by any chance ? 

[myfirstboxster]

1 minute ago, PaulQ said:

Nexen do lots of different tyres, some better then others. N6000 by any chance ? 

That's the ones

[EXY]

I should say I WILL NEVER BUY HANKOOK AGAIN, tyres were/are pure and utter cr*p in my personal experience then factor in the company's attitude and it only gets worse.

Berty987 had probably the best post I have ever seen on this subject, I assume that you performed a search prior to starting a new thread.

[Araf]

I don't think I'm a tyre snob.  The Porsche has Goodyear's and I can't wait to change them.  They really are rubbish.  The Volvo has Contis, but who cares?  The car virtually drives itself so forget having any feedback.  The Holden is on Uniroyals.  My go-to tyre and very cheap for the excellent properties they have.  The BMW is on GT Radials.  Bargain bucket tyres.  Not very good in the wet but they last very well on track days.

I think you DO get what you pay for and in a world of diminishing returns you have to decide where you want to be with regard to price point and performance.

[el 3.2S]

I am a bit of a tyre snob with 225 Hankooks on the front teamed up with a pair of 265 Sunnys at the rear . Dry grip is poor and goodness knows what it is like in the wet! All 4 were like new when I got the car 3.5 years ago and they still are! Will change them when they wear out - may be some time based on annual mileages that I do though.

[PaulQ]

A true connoisseur of quality rubber ?

@el 3.2S

[Menoporsche]

I thought Loz was a true connoisseur of quality rubber judging by the latest Strines pics!

[That986]

They are 4 points of contact between you and the road you're going down and if you want to put cheap rubber on then feel free but i'll stick to decent rubber thanks. Even on mediocre shopping trolley cars i've had decent rubber, i can't see the point in skimping. 

[911-32]

I voted with my wallet and just put Kumho PS91s on my new Pro-Race 18s.  Compared to the N-rated Bridgestones on my 19s, these already feel better.  This is not surprising for me as they are a new design (basically a copy of the Michie PSS so far as I can tell) compared to a 15+ year old design.  Tyre technology and rubber compounds move on - just look at Ring lap times and how much of that is often attributed to tyre tech.

For me, its horses for courses.  I have Michie Super Sports on 2 other cars and they are great, but MSS or PS4s are expensive.  For my Boxster, I am making a car specifically for road trips (not trackdays or commuting or winter or whatever).  I want a tyre with predictability, a progressive grip/slip threshold and a fairly stiff sidewall.  Part of the fun of alpine roads is the ability to slightly step over the limits on smooth, well sighted 2nd gear corners.  I have stepped away from R compound tyres on these trips as the limits are too high for easy access fun.  This may not suit everyone, and I don't claim to be Chris Harris, but I am very comfortable being slightly over the grip/slip limit, so I want a car and tyres that facilitate that fun.

Its a bit like the 18 vs 19 wheel debate.  19s look great, but 18s are better suited for the type of roads we have in the UK and offer a nicer handling balance for most of the time.  Yet most of us are wheel snobs and go for 19s.

Yes, I think we are tyre snobs.  $0.02.