Are we tyre snobs?

[Gdaybruce]

I've always thought that comments such as 'I never drive at more than 70-80, leave large stopping gaps and don't do track days' are missing the point. The time when you need the best tyres possible are when you're cruising on a wet road and somebody spins in front of you, or a child runs out, or one of a 1,000 other emergency scenarios that requires you to make an urgent avoidance. That's when the quality of your tyres really counts and in my experience, there are huge differences between 'decent' tyres and the worst budget items. I have no argument with the likes of Falken, Uniroyal, Avon and many more 'mid range' but if it's a brand I've never heard of I would avoid like the plague. These days I generally stick to Michelin, Goodyear, Continental or, for the Land Rover, BF Goodridge.

[PaulQ]

There are some gems from years gone by. I had Marongoni Zeta Linea on the MX and Maloya Futura Primato (what a name) made by Vredestein iirc. 

[Mattman42]

I have bridgestones on my that came with the car, all with 7-8mm of tread - it does not come unstuck - they only time i got wheel spin was when i did a half baked launch control, didn't give it enough revs before taking my foot off the brake and it span for a couple of seconds before taking off like a scalded cat.

 

[That986]

1 hour ago, Gdaybruce said:

I've always thought that comments such as 'I never drive at more than 70-80, leave large stopping gaps and don't do track days' are missing the point. The time when you need the best tyres possible are when you're cruising on a wet road and somebody spins in front of you, or a child runs out, or one of a 1,000 other emergency scenarios that requires you to make an urgent avoidance. That's when the quality of your tyres really counts and in my experience, there are huge differences between 'decent' tyres and the worst budget items. I have no argument with the likes of Falken, Uniroyal, Avon and many more 'mid range' but if it's a brand I've never heard of I would avoid like the plague. These days I generally stick to Michelin, Goodyear, Continental or, for the Land Rover, BF Goodridge.

Absolutely agree 100% on this. Good tyres have got me out of more sticky situations than not, i remember being behind a friend of mine travelling along the m1 at 75 when the car in front of the both of us hit the brakes hard enough to smoke the tyres. We both had to go across 2 lanes to avoid the near carnage, luckily we're both of the same mind when it comes to rubber and we avoided what could have been a 3 plus car pile-up. 

The guy in front was playing with his phone btw and hadn't noticed the car in front slowing down.  

[Patt]

You also need to be mindful that tyres do go hard over time.  Eg replacing the same tyres like for like will give better performance and be quieter - just because they are still soft and more compliant.

Each car has different handling characteristics, hence the manufacturers spend ££ testing all the tyres in all the conditions....before the accountants step in ! 

I'm with Darren, and will always justify the best tyre I want - usually a Michelin but depends on car. For example I'd fit a Toyo to an MX5 as that's more than suitable for the performance.  If I can, I will pay the extra fiver for the "N" rating too.  although Alice is under warranty so I currently have little choice.

I've paid the price with budget tyres - some never balance for more than 5 minutes , others cant even hold their shape - false economy, and that's before we discuss the subjective handling characteristics.

[PaulQ]

When I bought my first Mx5 it was fitted with 4 budget tyres made by Continental iirc that were quite frankly lethal. Some Goodyear eagle F1 GSD'2 all round transformed it. But that was just one particular make and model of tyre, on a specific car. Things have moved on. It's good to keep an open mind

 

[Pinewood]

can someone recommend cheap Chinese tyres for my premium sports car. They must be able to reach 155mph in the wet going sideways. Thanks 

[james_ly]

I'd never fit budgets to any car, but also don't think you need premium tyres, plenty of grip from midrange stuff.

That said I can see the appeal of an MX5 with linglongs on the back in the wet

[That986]

55 minutes ago, james_ly said:

I'd never fit budgets to any car, but also don't think you need premium tyres, plenty of grip from midrange stuff.

That said I can see the appeal of an MX5 with linglongs on the back in the wet

Nah, just buy wheels with worn out Continetals on. They let go in the dry, never mind the wet. 

[Greenman]

 

The frequent questions about tyres made me scratching my head.

Like many I am not a racer and don't do track days. I drive at 70mph - 75mph on the motorways, don't corner hard and don't throw the car from one side to the other, I probably drive 3000 miles per annum so does it really matter which tyre brand I use?

To try and see if there is a big difference between the makes I have produced a small table and entered 5 makes, 3 "Premium" and 3 "Mid Range". All tyres reach the same spec and it seems that the cheapest tyre is the best value with the best overhaul performance.

So the question to ask: If they are the same what is the difference? Are we tyre snobs?

Car Tyres.xls

The criteria in the table say very little abount tyre quality though, I.e the wet and dry grip levels, resistance to aquaplaning etc. Auto magazine tests consistently show there can be quite large differences in these areas between premium brands and (especially) cheap Chinese no brands. Of course the Boxster was designed as a sports car and the ‘N’ tyres are specced to maximise cornering/braking grip (amongst other things), but if you do never drive in a sporty way then there is certainly a reasonable case for putting a mid range option on. After all your typical family runaround doesn’t spec PZERO or PS4 and the child running out scenario applies just as much. In fact I bet a Boxster on ditchfinders  will stop quicker than 90% of what’s on the road.

So take you choice. I suspect if I wasn’t in warranty and only tootled around in the dry I would likely choose a suitable non ‘N’ rated option.

[rsmithinfo]

I'm in agreement with most on here.

For the daily where I do about 15-20k a year I have had Nexens for years now and before that things like Firestone, Kumho etc. Mid range tyres that do perfectly well. 

For sports cars, I'll go with what's recommended generally as I do tend to drive them a bit harder and there's no point having good brakes and poor tyres. Same as having lots of horsepower but stock brakes. If everything's aligned, it's going to work better together.

When I first got the BM I have now it had true budget tyres on it. I drove it with them for a few months thinking I'd wear them out before replacement. They were unwearable presumably this went hand in hand with their impressive lack of ability to stick to any road surface, wet or dry. So I agree with others here that budget is never the way to go, but mid range does very well for most situations.

[PaulQ]

It wasn't that long ago when companies such as Kumho, Hankook, Nexan .......basically any tire that originated from Korea were labelled as ditch finders. I guess some people still do, though most would call them mid range now. How things change

 

[Tengocity]

I'm a tyre snob for sure. I'd never put cheap tyres on my cars, as I know how I like to drive it, and for that the best possible all round driving performance is the only criteria that I care about. The cost differential is fairly marginal, and certainly my Boxster is only used for blasts and track days so the idea of cheap tyres would never cross my mind. Even my daily driver 335d has Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on it.

If folk have a Porsche and say they don't need expensive tyres because they drive it like a Honda Jazz I just wonder why they have one?

[PaulQ]

2 hours ago, Tengocity said:

If folk have a Porsche and say they don't need expensive tyres because they drive it like a Honda Jazz I just wonder why they have one?

Pride of ownership, they like open top motoring, to impress the neighbours.......lots of reasons. Some people probably don't drive them at all, or only on sunny days (no pun intended @el 3.2S ) so anything round and black will do. The cost differential can be significant. If it wasn't then everyone would just fit Michelins. 

[EXY]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:30 PM, rsmithinfo said:

I'm in agreement with most on here.

For the daily where I do about 15-20k a year I have had Nexens for years now and before that things like Firestone, Kumho etc. Mid range tyres that do perfectly well. 

For sports cars, I'll go with what's recommended generally as I do tend to drive them a bit harder and there's no point having good brakes and poor tyres. Same as having lots of horsepower but stock brakes. If everything's aligned, it's going to work better together.

When I first got the BM I have now it had true budget tyres on it. I drove it with them for a few months thinking I'd wear them out before replacement. They were unwearable presumably this went hand in hand with their impressive lack of ability to stick to any road surface, wet or dry. So I agree with others here that budget is never the way to go, but mid range does very well for most situations.

Was trying to buy one of the last Skoda Yeti's recently from a source that had several examples.

Two were fitted with Nexens and the other with Michelins so I asked if the deal went ahead would they swap the Michelins onto the car I bought.

I did exactly this with our first Nissan LEAF, IIRC we swapped Bridgestone Ecopeia's with Michelin Energy's

Again I would stress that I detest Hankook tyres/company with a passion and will only use Hankooks as a last resort, obviously my fiscally prudent nature dictates that if a car comes with Hankooks fitted I will use them then change to something else ASAP.

[thanatoid]

It doesn't matter how we have a habit to drive, what matters is the other idiots on the road and what we might unexpectedly have to do to avoid carnage....

 

So yes, be a tyre snob, and no, doesn't matter at all if folk think we are...

[perleman]

My understanding is that Michelin are extensively tested / developed for Porsche.

Had Supersports on my C4S and honestly the combination of them, the very wide rears, and the 4wd gave it ludicrous grip in the dry and wet. That and the 70bhp extra, I doubt even a 718s would see which way it went in the wet 

I also stuck PS4s on the Maserati rather than the Pirellis.  Never got on with Pirelli am assuming they are developed in hot Italy for dry roads 

[Tengocity]

15 hours ago, PaulQ said:

Pride of ownership, they like open top motoring, to impress the neighbours.......lots of reasons. Some people probably don't drive them at all, or only on sunny days (no pun intended @el 3.2S ) so anything round and black will do. The cost differential can be significant. If it wasn't then everyone would just fit Michelins. 

Fair enough, but I doubt many will admit that they just have Porsche to impress others. If you just want open top motoring then plenty others are (arguably) better to serve that up for the average joe/non petrolhead type.

Sorry, the cost is utterly insignificant compared to depreciation, servicing, petrol, road tax, especially for a car driven as described, on sunny summer days, which will need new tyres every 3-4 years.

[PaulQ]

1 hour ago, Tengocity said:

Sorry, the cost is utterly insignificant compared to depreciation, servicing, petrol, road tax, especially for a car driven as described, on sunny summer days, which will need new tyres every 3-4 years.

The cost may be utterly insignificant to you which is fine, but obviously not to everyone on this forum. If it was then you wouldn't get people asking about and fitting cheaper tyres. There are enough threads about it on here 

 

[Tengocity]

Quite simply it is, and just because folk don’t recognise that doesn’t stop it being so. 

I’m not saying folk should buy Top of the range Michelin or Pirelli, but there are plenty good tyres around from good manufacturers to avoid the cheap and lower end stuff.

I’d hate to think what other corners are being cut in the upkeep of these cars if stretching to a decent set of tyres is a struggle.

 

 

[Nobbie]

2 minutes ago, Tengocity said:

Quite simply it is, and just because folk don’t recognise that doesn’t stop it being so. 

I’m not saying folk should buy Top of the range Michelin or Pirelli, but there are plenty good tyres around from good manufacturers to avoid the cheap and lower end stuff.

I’d hate to think what other corners are being cut in the upkeep of these cars if stretching to a decent set of tyres is a struggle.

 

 

I think you're setting up a strawman there, I'm not sure anyone is recommending sticking the cheapest tyres they can find on a Boxster. A tyre snob in my opinion is one of those who makes pronouncements about only fitting N rated, or the most expensive tyre to their car from a position of ignorance about tyre performance. Many of those same people will not change to winter tyres because they probably think being expensive makes the tyre great in all conditions. Their arguments about safety are then seen for the cant they are.

Give it 5 years and most Chinese brands will be mid range and we'll be dissing Vietnamese ditch finders.

[PaulQ]

8 minutes ago, Tengocity said:

I’m not saying folk should buy Top of the range Michelin or Pirelli, but there are plenty good tyres around from good manufacturers to avoid the cheap and lower end stuff. 

Er, yes. I thought you said you were a tyre snob..... Lol

 

[EXY]

5 hours ago, Tengocity said:

Quite simply it is, and just because folk don’t recognise that doesn’t stop it being so. 

I’m not saying folk should buy Top of the range Michelin or Pirelli, but there are plenty good tyres around from good manufacturers to avoid the cheap and lower end stuff.

I’d hate to think what other corners are being cut in the upkeep of these cars if stretching to a decent set of tyres is a struggle.

 

 

A bit like the difference between N and non N rated, it really is insignificant but you still get the folk who SAY they don't need them,

You simply can't teach some folk

[Araf]

8 hours ago, Tengocity said:

Fair enough, but I doubt many will admit that they just have Porsche to impress others.

I drive a Porsche despite the badge - not because of it.

I don't see myself as a tyre snob.  I have N rated tyres on the Porsche because I'm under extended warranty, but otherwise I am more than happy to listen to what others consider are the best for my needs before buying new Michelins.  

[Freeman]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:32 PM, Tengocity said:

If folk have a Porsche and say they don't need expensive tyres because they drive it like a Honda Jazz I just wonder why they have one?

Some years ago another driver played with me, when I tried to over take him he accelerated, when there was an opposite traffic he slowed down. I have done something very very very (and many more very) stupid, I mounted a pavement and nearly killed a toddler in a pram. These days, when I see red I remember this stupidity of mine and make sure that my brain is in gear. There is no need to drive like an hooligan in order to enjoy the ride.