Sub Standard Illumination

[MAC99V]

15 hours ago, T24RES said:

I've had some success with Osram Night Breaker Laser Next Gen Upgrade Headlight Bulb Set - H7, and the same for the main beam in H1.

Otherwise it's the LED route, which us more money. 

What sort of night driving do you do?

Osram looks the way i'll probably go, led's i'm seeing have the 'not legal' status showing. Not to fussed on cost as such, as long as it provides good light. As for night driving, very little, just had a very long journey back from Hampshire last week (in the pouring rain too), lighting of the road in front was terrible. Most road are pretty well lit, so in all not to much of an issue, I'd just prefer better illumination. Thanks T24res....

 

[MAC99V]

15 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

I put Nightbreakers, or Philips equivalent, in my family car. A bit better but not great, and they blew after a year or so. Original halogens were 7 years old and still working. 

We looked at this before. Law says OEM bulbs over 2000 lumens have to be accompanied by washers. That implies halogens are 1800lm or thereabouts. I wonder what the 50% or 150% brighter really means, given other advertising claims like “waterproof “ watches which can’t go into water. 

Apparently xenons are 3000+ lm, which is why you can clearly see (!) the difference. 

Im interested as your car is a .2. I think all the retrofit xenons we heard of throwing errors were .1.  Wonder if you have a better chance of success. 

Nightbreakers may be my best bet, I'll still investigate of anything better, i'll let you know of any success....cheers M

[mike597]

16 minutes ago, MAC99V said:

Osram looks the way i'll probably go, led's i'm seeing have the 'not legal' status showing. Not to fussed on cost as such, as long as it provides good light. As for night driving, very little, just had a very long journey back from Hampshire last week (in the pouring rain too), lighting of the road in front was terrible. Most road are pretty well lit, so in all not to much of an issue, I'd just prefer better illumination. Thanks T24res....

 

I've used leds in reflectors for a year now and no issues. Given that you seem to have projectors you will have no issue if you fit either leds or retrofit xenon bulbs.  From the point of view of being pulled I mean. 

But I respect that you want to stay the right side of the law even if its a rather grey area. 

I've heard a lot of good things about Piaa extreme white bulbs (halogens) however note that the whiter you go with halogen the less actual light is produced as the 'white' is actually just a blue filter to cut out the yellow component of the light. 

[Menoporsche]

@mike597 thanks for that recommendation, I'd like brighter lights in my Toyota.

Found them on a UK site for £180 a pair which is fine if they work for 5 years, are definitely brighter, and are legal. (And I need another pair for full beam! Won't bother though, never use it).

I found a 2014 detailed review which loved them over halogens, even if I can't always see the difference in the photos   https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/h8-h11-h16-philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-bulb-review.884169/

Trouble is, the UK site that lists them is footnoted " PLEASE NOTE: These headlight bulbs do not have ECE approval, and as such their usage is currently not approved for use on public roads: their usage is limited to ‘off-road’ applications. In addition, their installation may trigger a bulb error message to appear on the vehicle's on-board computer system / dashboard. This is a harmless side-effect of the low-wattage LED bulbs not being recognised by the vehicle's CANbus system and can be solved with the installation of an additional Philips Canbus Adapter"
 

I guess you don't get the error as your car is pre-CANbus?  I'm sure my 2008 Toyota would.

So I guess they're brilliant (!) but I take my chances with the legality. Bit nervous to do that at that price...

[mike597]

2 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

@mike597 thanks for that recommendation, I'd like brighter lights in my Toyota.

Found them on a UK site for £180 a pair which is fine if they work for 5 years, are definitely brighter, and are legal. (And I need another pair for full beam! Won't bother though, never use it).

I found a 2014 detailed review which loved them over halogens, even if I can't always see the difference in the photos   https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/h8-h11-h16-philips-x-treme-ultinon-led-bulb-review.884169/

Trouble is, the UK site that lists them is footnoted " PLEASE NOTE: These headlight bulbs do not have ECE approval, and as such their usage is currently not approved for use on public roads: their usage is limited to ‘off-road’ applications. In addition, their installation may trigger a bulb error message to appear on the vehicle's on-board computer system / dashboard. This is a harmless side-effect of the low-wattage LED bulbs not being recognised by the vehicle's CANbus system and can be solved with the installation of an additional Philips Canbus Adapter"
 

I guess you don't get the error as your car is pre-CANbus?  I'm sure my 2008 Toyota would.

So I guess they're brilliant (!) but I take my chances with the legality. Bit nervous to do that at that price...

I use them on my 2012 touareg not my boxster.  They do not throw any errors.  Other cheaper leds did.  I paid about 120 for them with a discount code from powerbulbs.co.uk. Make sure to get the gen 2!

[DaveEFI]

I fitted an HID kit to both my last 05 987 and my current 11 987. Plenty room inside the lamp units for the ballast, etc, so an easy job indeed. The beam pattern looks the same as with halogen, but a lot brighter. Last car passed its MOT OK with them. Not yet had this one MOT'd. But easy to change back to halogen just for the test, if needed. Not had a problem with an oncoming driver thinking they are dazzling them. Not sure if there are LEDs that are as good now.

https://www.hids4u.co.uk

[MAC99V]

1 hour ago, DaveEFI said:

I fitted an HID kit to both my last 05 987 and my current 11 987. Plenty room inside the lamp units for the ballast, etc, so an easy job indeed. The beam pattern looks the same as with halogen, but a lot brighter. Last car passed its MOT OK with them. Not yet had this one MOT'd. But easy to change back to halogen just for the test, if needed. Not had a problem with an oncoming driver thinking they are dazzling them. Not sure if there are LEDs that are as good now.

https://www.hids4u.co.uk

Think I've used HIDS in the past... checked my build codes and nothing showing re lights, so from the image I posted earlier in the the three, I assume my headlights are Halogen? That being the case and going to the kids website it offers Projector or reflector for the 55w H7 lamps, is there any way I can tell which one I'll need....bit clueless on this (as you can tell) and I'm sure Porsche will just state, you can only use the relevant bog standard lamps....which I don't want, thx for any help, cheers, M

[T24RES]

You have projectors fitted (Looks like a crystal ball).

[PaulQ]

9 hours ago, mike597 said:

Yes they are brighter than the halogens they replaced.  One thing to note is they are designed for reflectors so the beam is designed to mimic a halogen.  They might not perform as well as alternatives with more leds behind projector lenses. I did try several different led h7 replacements before the Philips and all of these scattered light everywhere.  The Phillips are much more focused, still a bit of bleed but easily managed by directing the beam down a little bit. 

Bit of a fiddly bugger to fit, mind but they all are. 

 

Thanks. I've tested a few different types and the ones using the Philips Luxeon LED's are the best I've tried so far as regards to beam pattern, though you can get brighter lights. 

Most important thing seems to be the placement of the LED's themselves. The centre of them needs to be in exactly the same place as the filament on an incandescent lamp, or the beam pattern is all over the shop. Some I tried were way off. 

Tempted to try them, but still not convinced on the longevity, and the warranty is 2 years which isn't that great for what they cost. 

 

[mike597]

14 minutes ago, PaulQ said:

Thanks. I've tested a few different types and the ones using the Philips Luxeon LED's are the best I've tried so far as regards to beam pattern, though you can get brighter lights. 

Most important thing seems to be the placement of the LED's themselves. The centre of them needs to be in exactly the same place as the filament on an incandescent lamp, or the beam pattern is all over the shop. Some I tried were way off. 

Tempted to try them, but still not convinced on the longevity, and the warranty is 2 years which isn't that great for what they cost. 

 

Yeah I sat on the fence for a good while after they were recommended to me. It's a decent outlay and you want to be sure they perform well.   Absolutely right you need to ensure they are centered and the leds have correct orientation in a reflector to provide the best beam pattern.  The Phillips design makes these possible to achieve albeit fiddly as I said. Others I tried were impossible to adjust properly. 

[MAC99V]

1 hour ago, T24RES said:

You have projectors fitted (Looks like a crystal ball).

Many thanks Ian.

[PaulQ]

1 hour ago, mike597 said:

Yeah I sat on the fence for a good while after they were recommended to me. It's a decent outlay and you want to be sure they perform well. 

I've no doubt they will perform well (the gen 2 seems to have 4 x 2 leds ) the same as my 20 odd quid aliexpress jobbies. 

Will they last five times as long though.? Probably not, but I'll try a pair at some point I think. 

Best price I can find is Amazon for the gen 2 h7 for £112 btw. 

[mike597]

Here's a quick shot on the way home 

And one with full beam for comparison :

 

 

I think the top one shows the beam cut off quite nicely.  Obviously smart phone pics so a bit brighter than reality. 

[edc]

I'm interested to try some LED headlight bulbs in a newly acquired but old model A class with projectors but not at over £100 a pair. 

[Paul P]

Was out tonight in mine - and yeah - low beam performance wasn't good around the lanes, but I switched the front "fogs" on (which aren't really fog lights - they are just "more" lights that cast a wide low pattern)

Was better than not having them on. 

Used to do the same thing in my Audi.

 

[mike597]

8 hours ago, edc said:

I'm interested to try some LED headlight bulbs in a newly acquired but old model A class with projectors but not at over £100 a pair. 

If I had projectors I'd probably use retro fit HIDs as they are cheaper, more reliable and probably last longer. 

[DaveEFI]

20 hours ago, MAC99V said:

Think I've used HIDS in the past... checked my build codes and nothing showing re lights, so from the image I posted earlier in the the three, I assume my headlights are Halogen? That being the case and going to the kids website it offers Projector or reflector for the 55w H7 lamps, is there any way I can tell which one I'll need....bit clueless on this (as you can tell) and I'm sure Porsche will just state, you can only use the relevant bog standard lamps....which I don't want, thx for any help, cheers, M

HID are very obvious, because they take several seconds to get to full brightness (one reason why you can't have them as main beam because of the headlight flasher). Projector units have a bullseye lens on the front. They tend to be more tolerant of bulb type as regards beam pattern than a simple reflector type, as they have a sharp cut off.  If you get them from the site I gave, their kit is designed to work properly in Canbus cars with no errors.

[thanatoid]

On 11/3/2019 at 9:50 PM, xavster said:

I have Xenons in my 987, but I don’t think they’re that great -

Make sure adjusted properly :-)

But yes the comparison isn't fair :-)

[DaveEFI]

Tungsten bulbs get called all sorts of things in an attempt to make them sound special. Like xenon and so on. But are very obvious as they all look pretty well the same. Both HID and LED require driver electronics. With HID, these are separate units, and LED normally on the back of the bulb part, so look very different from all the varieties of tungsten.

Since both LED and HID present a different load to the car electrics, they usually need an additional unit to fool the Canbus (or other bulb failure warning) into thinking they are original tungsten. If you buy them from a reputable supplier,  as a kit for your actual car, that should be included.

[DaveEFI]

Thought I'd try the Philips X-tremeUltinon Gen2.  Previous was a 55W HID kit. Thing I don't like about the HID - the vertical thin shadow running away from the car, caused I'd guess by the wire running along the HID bulb, which annoys me slightly.

Since the headlights are so easy to remove, did just one, leaving the other as HID.

The LEDs are quoted as 21watt. Not as bright as the HID was the immediate reaction. Perceived colour much the same at about 6K, but a more even illumination from the front of the car to the end of the beam. So fitted the other today. I'll decide which I prefer after a few day's use, including some proper driving on roads with no lighting.

One very nice touch is the LEDs can be individually adjusted to move the beam up or down, by turning the LED in its housing. The HID seemed a tad high, with main beam spot on. So not much that can be done about that without spoiling main beam. The LEDs are fine on their zero setting. But do wonder how long something which has a built in cooling fan will last.

Both kits from https://www.hids4u.co.uk   and included Canbus compensation units - so no errors, even when one of each.

[mike597]

26 minutes ago, DaveEFI said:

Thought I'd try the Philips X-tremeUltinon Gen2.  Previous was a 55W HID kit. Thing I don't like about the HID - the vertical thin shadow running away from the car, caused I'd guess by the wire running along the HID bulb, which annoys me slightly.

Since the headlights are so easy to remove, did just one, leaving the other as HID.

The LEDs are quoted as 21watt. Not as bright as the HID was the immediate reaction. Perceived colour much the same at about 6K, but a more even illumination from the front of the car to the end of the beam. So fitted the other today. I'll decide which I prefer after a few day's use, including some proper driving on roads with no lighting.

One very nice touch is the LEDs can be individually adjusted to move the beam up or down, by turning the LED in its housing. The HID seemed a tad high, with main beam spot on. So not much that can be done about that without spoiling main beam. The LEDs are fine on their zero setting. But do wonder how long something which has a built in cooling fan will last.

Both kits from https://www.hids4u.co.uk   and included Canbus compensation units - so no errors, even when one of each.

Mine barely get warm to the touch even after hours of driving. 

[PaulQ]

36 minutes ago, DaveEFI said:

But do wonder how long something which has a built in cooling fan will last.

Didn't realise they had fans. The passively cooled versions run very hot though. 

[DaveEFI]

Just to add, had an MOT today which it passed with the LED bulbs. Had an advisory on all the brake discs (only to be expected given the mileage, and they are original).  It would be obvious they are LEDs by the colour compared to the main beam halogen, so really not sure if other than beam shape and aim is tested.

[Davey P]

Interesting to read some of the comments on here.  I drove my 987 for the first time in the dark yesterday (4:30am heading to the airport - ouch!) and to be honest I thought the lights were fine, both dipped and main beam, so I guess it all depends on what you get used to.  I assume mine is a bog standard set up, whatever that might be, and I'll be keeping it the same.

I've only ever fitted HID's once, to an old Golf GTi Mk3 which had really poor - almost dangerous - lights, and I found them to be dramatically brighter and a lot whiter.  However, to me they looked almost TOO bright, although it did pass an MOT so they must have been legal at least.

[DaveEFI]

Generally, on the open road, if your dip beams dazzle others, they'll let you know.😀