987.2 timing chain stretched?

[BoxstrAl]

So, haven't been on here much but have just had the oil changed on my 987.2S by a Porsche specialist and they found metal in the oil (their words),  on driving the car out of the workshop, the mechanic heard what sounded like to him an intermittent metallic tick at around 2000rpm, he removed the serpentine belt and the intermittent tick was still there.

His initial diagnosis was timing chain stretch as he has had this two other Porsches and replaced the timing chain on those cars due to this.

Now I cannot find anything online about this issue with 987.2 DFi engines at all, he did demonstrate the noise to me which is an incredibly faint intermittent noise/tick at around 2000rpm.

The problem is diagnosis is engine dropped and listened to, which they are quoting £1500 for, or £4000 for the chain replacement.

Thanks for your help!

[Menoporsche]

I've been on here for ?12 years, and don't remember hearing any discussion about timing chain stretch. And if there is a "usual" problem with an engine with a price that high, I hope I would have heard of it by now.

These engines make all sorts of ticking noises.

My 2p.

[Topbox]

That is a tricky one for sure. Do timing chains stretch and leave metal in the oil? I have no idea. How long have you used the Indy?  I think I would talk to another Indy, ask them what they think the 'tick' is ? Be very interesting to hear what other members think, god luck 

[BoxstrAl]

This is my thoughts too, need to get a second opinion I guess but almost impossible to definitely diagnosis without major intervention.

[BoxstrAl]

Any recommendations in the Bristol area?

[Nobbie]

Don’t suppose you got any of the old oil? A oil analysis might give you some pointers. Could be a main or big end bearing failure which could be diagnosed by the type of metal present. Not sure why a stretched chain would result in metal in the oil🤔

[BoxstrAl]

Unfortunately, no I haven't got the old oil or filter.  I'm guessing the chain is slapping the engine casing, shaving off bits of metal?

Just been on the phone to another Porsche specialist and they have not really heard of this issue on the 987.2S engine, they said to drive for another 500miles and then get the oil filter looked at and see if there is still some metal present.

I've got a Porsche experience half day booked (was a birthday gift) in September and I'm taking the car to really get to know it well, risk it?

Edited September 6, 2022 by BoxstrAl

[Menoporsche]

You're in the right place if it goes wrong  

[½cwt]

On the older Boxster engines it is chain guide wear as opposed to the chain itself, but as @Menoporsche says if there were a common expensive issue we'd have heard of it by now, either on here or from the US owners.

[Menoporsche]

And IIRC chain guide wear would be plastic in the oil/filter, rather than metal. 

[Southy]

1 hour ago, BoxstrAl said:

Any recommendations in the Bristol area?

I'd highly recommend Cotswold Porsche Specialists, about an hours drive from you, depending where you are in Bristol.

Forum sponsor, I've used them for 7 years, can't fault them.

https://www.cotswoldspecialists.co.uk/

If you don't want to travel phone and speak to Lee first, if the DFI engine has any common problems he should know about it.

 

[BoxstrAl]

Thanks, actually Lee was the Porsche specialist I spoke to, fingers crossed for the oil change in 500 miles!

[eob]

2 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

These engines make all sorts of ticking noises.

Is that right? Because I didn't want to be that new owner with the "Should my car be making this ticking/whirring noise?" post.

[Paul P]

They have a number of mechanical clicks and ticks and remember you are sitting very near to the engine and one of the vents from the engine bay is right behind your head.  
 

they also smell hot and often have a hot rubbery smell - typically after a serpentine belt change.  
 

but of course they also do develop faults - metal in the oil isn’t good but type and quantity would inform the diagnosis. 

[½cwt]

5 hours ago, Menoporsche said:

And IIRC chain guide wear would be plastic in the oil/filter, rather than metal. 

Fair point, but depends how worn....  

Edited September 6, 2022 by ½cwt

[BoxstrAl]

Just wish I hadn't fitted 4 new PS4S to the car as thinking of getting an OPC warranty put on it now.

[Tubzilla]

Unless you have a very high mileage Boxster it seems very unlikely to be timing chain. Second opinion is the way to go.

[phazed]

1 hour ago, BoxstrAl said:

Just wish I hadn't fitted 4 new PS4S to the car as thinking of getting an OPC warranty put on it now.

What is the cost of the warranty?

[BoxstrAl]

I'm probably looking at near to £2.5k to put the warranty on as need to change the brand new tyres 😪, the new non Porsche battery and the last service was at an Indy, so Porsche would want to wave their oily rag over it before adding the warranty.

I spoke to Hartech and they have had 9a1 DFI engines snap their timing chains and also bore score, they said it's not really known if it's a major known issue like the M96/M97 engines suffer from as it's too early to tell yet, they reckon another 5 years for the DFI engines to start issues trending!

Problem is there might not be anything wrong with the engine but once the doubt seed starts to sow...

Edited September 7, 2022 by BoxstrAl

[Ninesomething]

You can easily have a camshaft deviation test which will tell you how much difference there is between the crankshaft timing and the camshaft timing therefore how much stretch there is in the chain. 

If you really want to know at the same time you can have a rev range test done which will tell you how many times the car has been bounced off the limiter. Reason I mention it is that one might be caused by the other. 

Any specialist can do those and they're not much money. I will be surprised if you have chain stretch. When they told you they found metal in the oil did they show you it?

[BoxstrAl]

Yes I think that's the next step, already had a rev range test done on purchase and no more than range 3 a couple of times a few years ago.  No they did not show me the oil, I've emailed them today for further clarification ie if they passed a magnet over it to check whether it was ferrous or not but no reply so far.

[iborguk]

3 hours ago, phazed said:

What is the cost of the warranty?

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/approvedwarranty/
 

Plus the car has to go through the 111 point check and be last serviced by an OPC as the OP commented.

[phazed]

5 hours ago, BoxstrAl said:

Yes I think that's the next step, already had a rev range test done on purchase and no more than range 3 a couple of times a few years ago.  No they did not show me the oil, I've emailed them today for further clarification ie if they passed a magnet over it to check whether it was ferrous or not but no reply so far.

Wow! I didn't know that this could be done. I've done a handful of track days with mine, (and will do more) but tbh I usually change at 6K tops although I don't look at the rev counter at every change as you get a feel for the happy spot.

[Ninesomething]

Yeah the ECU knows everything about you.....

 

And it's constantly relaying it back the the authorities.

[BoxstrAl]

23 hours ago, JonSta said:

You can easily have a camshaft deviation test which will tell you how much difference there is between the crankshaft timing and the camshaft timing therefore how much stretch there is in the chain. 

Is there a diagnostic/OBD tool that’s available for that?  I know the PIWIS scanner will but that’s expensive!